INFO-VAX Sun, 29 Jul 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 412 Contents: Re: ES40's won't boot! Re: Hung TCPware or what? Re: July the 4th RE: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Multinet OOB (non-inline) character processing Unloading some VAXStations and DEC hardware Re: What does GEM mean? Re: What does GEM mean? Re: What does GEM mean? www.loreenadiver.co.uk free games ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:07:03 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: ES40's won't boot! Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 21:36:05 -0700, John Santos wrote: > Malcolm Dunnett wrote: >> John Santos wrote: >> >>> >>> Yes, I think so. There are two DB9 connectors on the back of >>> each ES40. They tried one and can talk to the SRM console >>> (until it all goes away when they try to boot.) When they plug >>> their terminal into the other DB9, they don't get any response. >>> >> The "real" console on the ES40 is neither of these, it's an MMJ >> that is located above those ports. >> > > I bet that's it! Thank you, Malcolm. > >>> However, it wasn't running "perfectly well", since they had plugged >>> the AS4100's Ethernet cable into it, and it doesn't respond to pings, >>> SET HOST or LAT. It could be that the port is at the wrong speed. >> It could be that VMS has stopped in the boot process to ask you to >> set the clock (this prompt coming out on the MMJ connector ) >> > > Could be. I had them typing blind date & time strings at the "console", > just in case, but of course, there was no response. > > > They are absolutely convinced the serial console doesn't work under VMS, > which is of course nonsense, and are planning to try to install the > VGA card from the 4100 in one of the ES40's on Monday and try again. > > If the MMJ is in fact the console, then this will probably work, and > they'll never believe that wasn't the problem. Oh well, as long as it > works :-( The console is one of the DB9 ports. > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 05:12:59 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Hung TCPware or what? Message-ID: <1185711179.914513.277930@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> On Jul 28, 3:40 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > AEF wrote: > > > One of my MicroVAX 3100 Model 80's hung in HK recently. I can PING it, > > but cannot open a terminal session. > > This is likely something other than an IP stack issue. > > When it's happened to me, VMS was severly resource starved to over-allocation of > memory, pagefile, ... just about everything. > > I was able to use SYSMAN from another node and find that SHOW SYSTEM listed > almost every process in the system is some sort of resource wait state, the most > common being FPW (Free Page Wait). Really? You couldn't open a terminal session but you could run commands via SYSMAN? Krap, I don't have SMISERVER running on this node. (I have no VMSclusters, remember) Thanks for the word. I'm still waiting for my colleague in Hong Kong to set up a console session. > > -- > David J Dachtera [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 08:52:57 +0200 From: Dirk Munk Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: Paul Raulerson wrote: > Bill - you are to be pitied son. > > I seriously suggest you get some help, preferably from someone who does not share your hate filled ridiculous ultra-liberal ideas. I'll be glad to send you the names and phone numbers of mental health professionals in your area. > > And you might want to read some real history - you live in what was once the American Frontier. You could learn a lot from the attitudes of the people that lived there. Thank you for these lines. They show exactly the problem with many Americans, and that is that mentally they are still living in the 19th century. They still want to fight Indians, and still need a stockpile of weapons to defend their homes against Jesse James & Co. The Indians have been replaced by Moslems, and Jesse James by Osama Bin Laden, but the mindset is the same. > The world, and this country are far from the simple place you imagine it to be, and the childish solutions you seem to embrace are not solutions at all. > > -Paul > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net] >> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 9:07 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: July the 4th >> >> Wow - when I called you a moron before, I considered it mild hyperbole. >> Now it's clear that it wasn't exaggerated in the slightest. >> >> The world would be considerably better off without self-satisfied, >> arrogant ignoramuses like you, Paul: you personify 'the ugly >> American', >> a species that seemed to be on the way to extinction a few decades ago >> but which now seems to have staged a major come-back. >> >> And you don't even have a clue that that's what you are (but of course >> that's a characteristic of the species as well). >> >> A while ago I observed that I'd pretty much accomplished what I set out >> to with respect to Itanic - making sure that whatever level of success >> it enjoyed would be based on whatever actual merits it could >> demonstrate >> rather than on the ridiculously free ride it was getting six years ago. >> And VMS is so clearly a completely lost cause now that wasting any >> more time on it would be silly (nor is there any remaining technical >> content of interest to me here: that's what happens when most >> development dies off). >> >> Now it's also clear that a large percentage of the contributors here >> are >> people with whom I wouldn't want to have anything to do with elsewhere. >> For a long time there was sufficient diversity in the group that I >> still considered it a community worth visiting, but so many of the >> sensible people have now apparently given up (either just on VMS or on >> the community itself) that even that has ceased to be the case. >> >> So enjoy your dwindling little stagnant cesspool of American smugness: >> you seem sufficiently beyond help that there's no reason for me to put >> up with the stink any more even as a public service. >> >> - bill >> >> Paul Raulerson wrote: >>>> Paul Raulerson wrote: >>>>> See, that is the way the U.S. works, we try to be respectful of >> other >>>>> people's beliefs, but we absolutely insist on the right to have our >>>>> individual beliefs respected too. And we back that right up with >> force of >>>>> arms. >>>> You can't tell others they can't have while the USA insists that >> it >>>> can have >>>> >>>> = nuclear, WMD's land mines, pollution etc etc etc. >>>> >>> Of course we can, and have since around 1823 when the Monroe Doctrine >> came into play. At that was based on far older rules of precendence. >>> A ICBM can reach any square mile of territory in the entire Western >> Hemisphere, it is a perfectly legal and justifiable extension of what >> began with the Monroe Doctine to take steps to avoid them landing >> anywhwere in our territory. It is just as valid for another power, say >> Russia, to want to defend their borders. Even countries like North and >> South Korea, who do it with landmines. >>> It is NOT valid, not is it legal, for another power or an >> orgranization supported by another power, to crash airplanes into our >> building and kill our people, murder our soldiers with IED's, or what. >>> >>>> The USA is *a* country of the planet. Not "THE" country of the >> planet. >>>> It deserves no speacial consideration and if it wants to be >> respected, >>>> it must adhere to what the world has decided via the UN. >>> Horsehockey! By your lights all countries are equal and deserve >> exactly the same rights. Nothing could be further from the truth. What >> do you think would happen should the U.S. suddenly drop their forgein >> aid levels to that of say, Uganda? >>> Or suppose we dropped out portion of financial support to the UN to >> that of Brazil? The UN is not a world government, it is a forum for the >> governments of the world to come to consensus. And the voice of those >> government is proportional to the funding provided to the UN by those >> governments. >>> Take a look at the membership of the security council to verify that. >>> >>>> Someone else complained about my attitude towards your country. Does >> it >>>> not bother you that so many people in the world have come to hate >> what >>>> the USA has become ? Do you really believe your lying idiot >> politicians >>>> who claim that people hate the uSA simply because the USA has >> freedom ? >>> Not in the least - they can have whatever opinion they care to, >> whether it be some careful, thought out opinion, or some opinion I >> think quite foolish. If they intend to *act* on those opinions in terms >> of military or terrorist ideas, then yes, it is worth looking into the >> "whys" and seeing if there are things that can be done to defuse the >> situation. But there are some groups out there that are just so crazy >> they demand that all of us agree with them and do things *their* way. >>> Like separate bathrooms for Muslims... sheesh - *that* crap went out >> in the 1960's. And good riddance to it too! >>> >>>> The reason the USA is so despised, the reason you have groups such >> as >>>> Al-Quada hell bent on hurting the USA is because the USA insists on >>>> disregarding what the planet wants and impose its own will on the >> world. >>> Bull crap again. The reason is they are flat jealous of what we hav >> worked so hard to achieve, and what they are not jealous of, they are >> terrified by. How can so MANY diffrent races, ethnic groups, immigrant >> groups, and people with varied ethical, social, sexual, and religions >> beliefs possible live in the same country without shooting each other? >> And how can all of them be essentially *rich*? >>> They cannot see the real, simple, answer in front of their noses. >> (*sigh*) >>> Your idea that there is some consensus of what "the planet wants" is >> a little on the ridiculous side too. Who specificly, is "the planet." >>>> And the USA has now shows it is a very dangerous baby. UN didn't >> want to >>>> give Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Cheney's gift by refusing a resolution to >> allow >>>> them to send their army to Iraq, so they throw a tamper tantrum and >> go >>>> into Iraq anyways and enjoy the fireworks they created. >>> You go that partly right. The US *is* dangerous. Very *very* >> dangerous. Just let you pals keep up their threats a bit longer, and >> the very most dangerous part of us will come to the forefront again. >>> Your freinds seem to believe that the U.S. is not dangerous at all, >> and maybe safely twitted anytime they like. They are wrong. >>> >>>> History has proven that when an invador deploys land mines, it never >>>> removes them when it leaves because it always ends up leaving in >> shame >>>> and fairly quickly. There are very good reasons why the rest of the >>>> world has banned the use of land mines. The USA has no business >> laying >>>> land mines outside its own territory. If it wants to have the burden >> of >>>> all the extra medical costs of taking care of americans maimed by >> land >>>> mines inside the USA, that it isn't business. But it has no business >>>> laying land mines outside its territory, forcing that country to >> then be >>>> burndened for *decades* by the high costs of taking care of the >> victims >>>> of the USA's short term use of landmines. >>> Quite simply, your history is incomplete. Talk to North Korea, Iran, >> and most of North Africa about landmines. >>> >>>> Do you realise that people are still getting maimed in Vietnam ? >>> They can pay a good commercial company to come in and clean 'em up >> you know. But that would (gasp)cost MONEY, and not get them sympanthy. >> It would just keep their own people from getting killed. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 02:16:47 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: July the 4th Message-ID: <000c01c7d1b0$6d00b280$47021780$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl] > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 1:53 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: July the 4th >=20 > Paul Raulerson wrote: > > Bill - you are to be pitied son. > > > > I seriously suggest you get some help, preferably from someone who > does not share your hate filled ridiculous ultra-liberal ideas. I'll = be > glad to send you the names and phone numbers of mental health > professionals in your area. > > > > And you might want to read some real history - you live in what was > once the American Frontier. You could learn a lot from the attitudes = of > the people that lived there. >=20 > Thank you for these lines. They show exactly the problem with many > Americans, and that is that mentally they are still living in the 19th > century. They still want to fight Indians, and still need a stockpile > of > weapons to defend their homes against Jesse James & Co. The Indians > have > been replaced by Moslems, and Jesse James by Osama Bin Laden, but the > mindset is the same. >=20 Just what exactly do you find wrong with that picture, beyond the fact = you have exaggerated the analogy? Your own history is pretty well = fraught with fighting those exact same "Indians." The Netherlands has = fought against Muslims for quite a while, including ganging up against = them with Portugal in Malaysia. =20 Muslims never bothered us much before they starting slamming airplanes = into buildings. We never bothered them until they did that either. Also = remember, that wasn't their first attempt- just their first really = successful one. Some policies of the current administration I do not agree with, but as = a society, we deal with those problems in established ways. And there = are a great number of people here who *do* agree with those policies- = they may be right, or partially right too. And they have the same rights = I do. One of the problems with living in a republic is you have to = sometimes live with decisions you personally do not like. It is an = indicator the U.S. is somewhat of an Adult society - we can tolerate = differences of opinion. Well, most of us can.=20 -Paul=20 >=20 > > The world, and this country are far from the simple place you = imagine > it to be, and the childish solutions you seem to embrace are not > solutions at all. > > > > -Paul > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net] > >> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 9:07 AM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> Subject: Re: July the 4th > >> > >> Wow - when I called you a moron before, I considered it mild > hyperbole. > >> Now it's clear that it wasn't exaggerated in the slightest. > >> > >> The world would be considerably better off without self-satisfied, > >> arrogant ignoramuses like you, Paul: you personify 'the ugly > >> American', > >> a species that seemed to be on the way to extinction a few decades > ago > >> but which now seems to have staged a major come-back. > >> > >> And you don't even have a clue that that's what you are (but of > course > >> that's a characteristic of the species as well). > >> > >> A while ago I observed that I'd pretty much accomplished what I set > out > >> to with respect to Itanic - making sure that whatever level of > success > >> it enjoyed would be based on whatever actual merits it could > >> demonstrate > >> rather than on the ridiculously free ride it was getting six years > ago. > >> And VMS is so clearly a completely lost cause now that wasting = any > >> more time on it would be silly (nor is there any remaining = technical > >> content of interest to me here: that's what happens when most > >> development dies off). > >> > >> Now it's also clear that a large percentage of the contributors = here > >> are > >> people with whom I wouldn't want to have anything to do with > elsewhere. > >> For a long time there was sufficient diversity in the group that = I > >> still considered it a community worth visiting, but so many of the > >> sensible people have now apparently given up (either just on VMS or > on > >> the community itself) that even that has ceased to be the case. > >> > >> So enjoy your dwindling little stagnant cesspool of American > smugness: > >> you seem sufficiently beyond help that there's no reason for me to > put > >> up with the stink any more even as a public service. > >> > >> - bill > >> > >> Paul Raulerson wrote: > >>>> Paul Raulerson wrote: > >>>>> See, that is the way the U.S. works, we try to be respectful of > >> other > >>>>> people's beliefs, but we absolutely insist on the right to have > our > >>>>> individual beliefs respected too. And we back that right up with > >> force of > >>>>> arms. > >>>> You can't tell others they can't have while the USA insists > that > >> it > >>>> can have > >>>> > >>>> =3D nuclear, WMD's land mines, pollution etc etc etc. > >>>> > >>> Of course we can, and have since around 1823 when the Monroe > Doctrine > >> came into play. At that was based on far older rules of = precendence. > >>> A ICBM can reach any square mile of territory in the entire = Western > >> Hemisphere, it is a perfectly legal and justifiable extension of > what > >> began with the Monroe Doctine to take steps to avoid them landing > >> anywhwere in our territory. It is just as valid for another power, > say > >> Russia, to want to defend their borders. Even countries like North > and > >> South Korea, who do it with landmines. > >>> It is NOT valid, not is it legal, for another power or an > >> orgranization supported by another power, to crash airplanes into > our > >> building and kill our people, murder our soldiers with IED's, or > what. > >>> > >>>> The USA is *a* country of the planet. Not "THE" country of the > >> planet. > >>>> It deserves no speacial consideration and if it wants to be > >> respected, > >>>> it must adhere to what the world has decided via the UN. > >>> Horsehockey! By your lights all countries are equal and deserve > >> exactly the same rights. Nothing could be further from the truth. > What > >> do you think would happen should the U.S. suddenly drop their > forgein > >> aid levels to that of say, Uganda? > >>> Or suppose we dropped out portion of financial support to the UN = to > >> that of Brazil? The UN is not a world government, it is a forum for > the > >> governments of the world to come to consensus. And the voice of > those > >> government is proportional to the funding provided to the UN by > those > >> governments. > >>> Take a look at the membership of the security council to verify > that. > >>> > >>>> Someone else complained about my attitude towards your country. > Does > >> it > >>>> not bother you that so many people in the world have come to hate > >> what > >>>> the USA has become ? Do you really believe your lying idiot > >> politicians > >>>> who claim that people hate the uSA simply because the USA has > >> freedom ? > >>> Not in the least - they can have whatever opinion they care to, > >> whether it be some careful, thought out opinion, or some opinion I > >> think quite foolish. If they intend to *act* on those opinions in > terms > >> of military or terrorist ideas, then yes, it is worth looking into > the > >> "whys" and seeing if there are things that can be done to defuse = the > >> situation. But there are some groups out there that are just so > crazy > >> they demand that all of us agree with them and do things *their* > way. > >>> Like separate bathrooms for Muslims... sheesh - *that* crap went > out > >> in the 1960's. And good riddance to it too! > >>> > >>>> The reason the USA is so despised, the reason you have groups = such > >> as > >>>> Al-Quada hell bent on hurting the USA is because the USA insists > on > >>>> disregarding what the planet wants and impose its own will on the > >> world. > >>> Bull crap again. The reason is they are flat jealous of what we = hav > >> worked so hard to achieve, and what they are not jealous of, they > are > >> terrified by. How can so MANY diffrent races, ethnic groups, > immigrant > >> groups, and people with varied ethical, social, sexual, and > religions > >> beliefs possible live in the same country without shooting each > other? > >> And how can all of them be essentially *rich*? > >>> They cannot see the real, simple, answer in front of their noses. > >> (*sigh*) > >>> Your idea that there is some consensus of what "the planet wants" > is > >> a little on the ridiculous side too. Who specificly, is "the > planet." > >>>> And the USA has now shows it is a very dangerous baby. UN didn't > >> want to > >>>> give Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Cheney's gift by refusing a resolution to > >> allow > >>>> them to send their army to Iraq, so they throw a tamper tantrum > and > >> go > >>>> into Iraq anyways and enjoy the fireworks they created. > >>> You go that partly right. The US *is* dangerous. Very *very* > >> dangerous. Just let you pals keep up their threats a bit longer, = and > >> the very most dangerous part of us will come to the forefront = again. > >>> Your freinds seem to believe that the U.S. is not dangerous at = all, > >> and maybe safely twitted anytime they like. They are wrong. > >>> > >>>> History has proven that when an invador deploys land mines, it > never > >>>> removes them when it leaves because it always ends up leaving in > >> shame > >>>> and fairly quickly. There are very good reasons why the rest of > the > >>>> world has banned the use of land mines. The USA has no business > >> laying > >>>> land mines outside its own territory. If it wants to have the > burden > >> of > >>>> all the extra medical costs of taking care of americans maimed by > >> land > >>>> mines inside the USA, that it isn't business. But it has no > business > >>>> laying land mines outside its territory, forcing that country to > >> then be > >>>> burndened for *decades* by the high costs of taking care of the > >> victims > >>>> of the USA's short term use of landmines. > >>> Quite simply, your history is incomplete. Talk to North Korea, > Iran, > >> and most of North Africa about landmines. > >>> > >>>> Do you realise that people are still getting maimed in Vietnam ? > >>> They can pay a good commercial company to come in and clean 'em up > >> you know. But that would (gasp)cost MONEY, and not get them > sympanthy. > >> It would just keep their own people from getting killed. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 05:00:36 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: <1185710436.160211.322840@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jul 28, 8:12 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > AEF wrote: > > I don't think any people within the US are denied legal process unless > > you consider Gitmo part of the US. > > The USA ambassador to Canada stated categorically that non-citizens had > no legal rights in the USA. (trying to explain why the USA had kidnapped > a canadian at JFK airport and sent him to be tortured in Syria). All right. Things aren't perfect. We're going through a bad period. Like the McCarthy era. Anyway, I find it rather interesting that, and I quote from the NY Times, 2007-01-27: OTTAWA, Jan 26 -- Maher Arar, the Canadian software engineer who was detained by American officials in 2002 and deported to Syria where he was jailed and regularly tortured, will receive 11.5 million Canadian dollars ($9.75 million) in compensation from the Canadian government Friday. The compensation ends a lawsuit brought by Mr. Arar and follows a recommendation from a judicial inquiry into his case. That inquiry said the expulsion to Syria was caused by FALSE ASSERTIONS MADE BY THE CANADIAN POLICE TO UNITED STATES OFFICIALS, SAYING THAT MR. ARAR WAS AN ISLAMIC EXTREMIST LINKED TO AL QAEDA. [my emphasis]. So *your* gov't is also to blame!!! But at least it admitted guilt in the end. [I'm still confused by this. Why would Syria torture someone for us?] Still, the USA's record for things like this is far better than Saddam's or any number of dictatorships around the world. > Human rights charters and constitutional garantees are there to ensure > there are NO EXCEPTIONS and that EVERYONE benefits from those > protections. If you start to allow exceptions, (such as not giving > "blacks" full legal rights, discriminating between sex etc), you break > your obligation to uphold those garantees. Well, explain that to your own gov't who started the whole mess with Mr. Arar!!! You can't expect perfection. Still, the US has a far better record than most countries! Talk about human rights, what about the Muslim/Arab world where woman are treated horribly? I've read about people's hands being cut off for burglary (and even saw one of Saddam's henchman doing exactly that on TV). I've also read that people are boiled in oil, but I'm not sure if that's really true. I am puzzled why you support a people who treat women as men's property. There are thousands of "honor killings" of women in Muslim societies. This doesn't happen in the US. In Arab and other Muslim countries, there is no freedom or civil rights. Criminals have their hands cut off. Free speech is brutally punished with really awful torture. Women are horribly abused. For religious worship only Islam is allowed. Here's a direct quote from an op-ed written by Nicholas Kristoff of the NY Times: [begin quote] Mrs. Noor, a pretty woman with soft eyes and a gold nose ring, grew up in the Pakistani countryside, and like her three sisters she never received a day's education. At the age of 15 she was married off by her parents, becoming the second wife of the imam of a local mosque. He beat her relentlessly. ''He would grab my hair, throw me on the floor and beat me with sticks,'' she recalled. Finally she ran away. Her husband found her, tied her to the bed, wired a metal rod to a 220- volt electrical outlet and forced it into her vagina. Surgeons managed to save her life, but horrific internal burns forced them to remove her bladder, urethra, vagina and rectum. Her doctor says she will have to carry external colostomy and urine bags for the rest of her life. At least she survived. Each year about one million girls in the third world die because of mistreatment and discrimination. In societies where males and females have relatively equal access to food and health care, and where there is no sex-selective abortion, females live longer and there are about 104 females for every 100 males. In contrast, Pakistan has only 94 females for every 100 males, pointing to three million to seven million missing females in that country alone. Perhaps 10 percent of Pakistani girls and women die because of gender discrimination. In most cases it is not that parents deliberately kill their daughters. Rather, people skimp on spending on females -- just like Sedanshah, a man at an Afghan refugee camp I visited near here. When his wife and son were both sick, he bought medicine for the boy alone, saying of his wife, ''She's always sick, so it's not worth buying medicine for her.'' At Capital Hospital here in Islamabad, a nurse named Rukhsana Kausar recalled fraternal-twin babies she had treated recently. At birth, the girl twin weighed one pound one ounce more than the boy. At seven months, their position was reversed: the boy weighed one pound 13 ounces more than his sister. [end quote] Note that this type of behavior is normal in that world. It is inexcusable and not tolerated in the West. > > bigot. You spoke absolute nonsense about living under Saddam. Why > > should we listen to you about anything else? > > Lets continue this conversation in a few years when you will have > awakened to real information about what the USA has been doing for the > past 6 years. The USA is still living in its own litle universe without > a clue of what is really happening even inside their own country thanks > to the USA media who consciously decided to NOT report the atrocities > performed by Bush&co. (and lack of a real democratic opposition to the > party in power). So you'd rather live under Saddam than Bush. Enough said. And just what are these "unreported atrocities"??? You're an anti-American bigot. Pure and simple. We're not perfect, but we're far better than most countries. Especially Saddam's Iraq!!! Come back in a few years when you learn how much worse many other countries are when compared to the US. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 05:07:13 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: <1185710833.906649.115950@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Jul 29, 2:52 am, Dirk Munk wrote: > Paul Raulerson wrote: > > Bill - you are to be pitied son. > > > I seriously suggest you get some help, preferably from someone who does not share your hate filled ridiculous ultra-liberal ideas. I'll be glad to send you the names and phone numbers of mental health professionals in your area. > > > And you might want to read some real history - you live in what was once the American Frontier. You could learn a lot from the attitudes of the people that lived there. > > Thank you for these lines. They show exactly the problem with many > Americans, and that is that mentally they are still living in the 19th > century. They still want to fight Indians, and still need a stockpile of > weapons to defend their homes against Jesse James & Co. The Indians have > been replaced by Moslems, and Jesse James by Osama Bin Laden, but the > mindset is the same.> The world, and this country are far from the simple place you imagine it to be, and the childish solutions you seem to embrace are not solutions at all. Your message here is confusing. Exactly to whom are you addressing this? At first it seems like Bill Todd but then you say things that don't make sense in that context. You say the US wants to fight the Moslems? Excuse me? We didn't ask for 9/11. While invading Iraq was a dumb response, I don't think unilateral disarmament would be helpful either. Yeah, there's still a witch-hunt mentality among some Americans, but we didn't ask for 9/11. And there's probably a witch-hunt mentality in many other places. I think it must be a very unfortunate aspect of human nature. > > > -Paul > [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 05:42:29 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: <1185712949.276660.90290@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jul 28, 7:38 pm, "Paul Raulerson" wrote: [...] > > I love the statement someone made earlier today - you have a right to your > own opinions, but not to your own facts. The facts do not fit your opinion. > > -Paul I must give credit to the author of "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts": the late Senator from New York: Daniel Patrick Moynihan. [I regret not having done this at the outset.] Yep, that's a pretty good one! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:35:31 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: <46ACC1D3.824BDA0A@spam.comcast.net> Dirk Munk wrote: > > Paul Raulerson wrote: > > Bill - you are to be pitied son. > > > > I seriously suggest you get some help, preferably from someone who does not share your hate filled ridiculous ultra-liberal ideas. I'll be glad to send you the names and phone numbers of mental health professionals in your area. > > > > And you might want to read some real history - you live in what was once the American Frontier. You could learn a lot from the attitudes of the people that lived there. > > Thank you for these lines. They show exactly the problem with many > Americans, and that is that mentally they are still living in the 19th > century. They still want to fight Indians, and still need a stockpile of > weapons to defend their homes against Jesse James & Co. The Indians have > been replaced by Moslems, and Jesse James by Osama Bin Laden, but the > mindset is the same. Well, needless to say, I take great exception to that. I do not deny that the attitudes still exist - some southerners, even today, wish the Confederacy had survived, as far as that goes. I don't see any of that changing in the balance of my lifetime. Applying it so generally implies to me the same kind of bigotry and prejudice that it is meant to deride. Still, I'd have drawn different parallels: "The indians" have been replaced by street gangs, drugs and other unsavory elements of society - many of which are not unique to the U.S. "Jesse James & Co." have indeed been replaced by radical extremists of any bent, not just misguided Moslems (intentional use of "the other" spelling). Again, this is not unique to the U.S. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:35:36 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: <79736$46acc237$cef8887a$7388@TEKSAVVY.COM> AEF wrote: > The compensation ends a lawsuit brought by Mr. Arar and follows a > recommendation from a judicial inquiry into his case. That inquiry > said the expulsion to Syria was caused by FALSE ASSERTIONS MADE BY THE > CANADIAN POLICE TO UNITED STATES OFFICIALS, SAYING THAT MR. ARAR WAS > AN ISLAMIC EXTREMIST LINKED TO AL QAEDA. [my emphasis]. > > So *your* gov't is also to blame!!! But at least it admitted guilt in > the end. You need to take a look at the big picture. Intelligence agencies and police USED to exchange a lot of information with the americans, and information was "qualified". In the case of Arar, he had once met someone who was being watched. The person being watched wasn't a declared terrorist, he was just suspected of having ties. So this was entered in the CSIS database as such and sent the the yanks as part of regular bulk exchanges. The problem is that the yanks stopped reading the reports to qualify each entry and just treated all entries as "known terrorist". The failure of the canadian government was to continue to send such bulk reports at a time they should have known that the yank were misusing that information and no longer considering privacy issues. A LOT of non-americans were given the "terrorist treatment" when they casually ventured into the USA for business, transit, vacation, or visiting family. And it has also come out that one didn't even need to venture into the USA since the CIA kidnapped many people outside the USA to be sent to the secret "rendering" prisons to be tortured. When the Arar family started to look for their father, USA state department told Canadian Foreign Affairs dept that they had never heard of Arar and definititevely were not holding him. They knew full well what they had done to him. Bush finally admitted to our prime minister during a meeting what had happened. So BUSH WAS FULLY AWARE THAT TORTURE WAS BEING PERFORMED WELL BEFORE THE USA MEDIA STARTED TO ADMIT IT TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. The rest of the world cannot understand why the USA, which almost impeached a president for lying about a blow job in the oval office, allows a war criminal to continue to be president of the USA. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:45:07 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: AEF wrote: > You say the US wants to fight the Moslems? Excuse me? We didn't ask > for 9/11. While invading Iraq was a dumb response, I don't think > unilateral disarmament would be helpful either. Why don't you go fight the born again Christians ? Was it a Muslim who blew up the Oklahoma building ? By your logic, all christians should be persecuted too. Are americans so racist that they have no ability to differentiate between an individual (Bin Ladin) and a religion that has hundreds of millions of followers ? The whole point of this is that it is exactly because of the way the USA treats muslims that a couple of muslims become extremists and want to hurt the USA. Muslims are like bees. They leave you alone when you let them do their business in peace, but mess with their way of life, and they will sting. The USA has yet to learn to respect the muslims and let them live they way they want to live. The terrorism problem will not be solved until americans learn not to interfere with their lives and until the USA becomes neutral in the Israel vs Middle-East conflict. It is disconcerting that americans can't even grasp such simple concepts of international diplomacy. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:04:14 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: On 07/28/07 19:12, JF Mezei wrote: > AEF wrote: > >> I don't think any people within the US are denied legal process unless >> you consider Gitmo part of the US. > > The USA ambassador to Canada stated categorically that non-citizens had > no legal rights in the USA. (trying to explain why the USA had kidnapped > a canadian at JFK airport and sent him to be tortured in Syria). Which is categorically false, given the quantity of rights and privileges that illegal immigrants have in this country. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:06:50 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: On 07/29/07 01:52, Dirk Munk wrote: > Paul Raulerson wrote: [snip] > > Thank you for these lines. They show exactly the problem with many > Americans, and that is that mentally they are still living in the 19th > century. They still want to fight Indians, and still need a stockpile of > weapons to defend their homes against Jesse James & Co. The Indians have > been replaced by Moslems, and Jesse James by Osama Bin Laden, but the > mindset is the same. Why didn't you snip the 157 lines of excess baggage from the bottom of your reply? >> The world, and this country are far from the simple place you imagine >> it to be, and the childish solutions you seem to embrace are not [huge snippage] >>>> >>>>> Do you realise that people are still getting maimed in Vietnam ? >>>> They can pay a good commercial company to come in and clean 'em up >>> you know. But that would (gasp)cost MONEY, and not get them sympanthy. >>> It would just keep their own people from getting killed. >> -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:14:12 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: On 07/29/07 11:45, JF Mezei wrote: > AEF wrote: >> You say the US wants to fight the Moslems? Excuse me? We didn't ask >> for 9/11. While invading Iraq was a dumb response, I don't think >> unilateral disarmament would be helpful either. > > > Why don't you go fight the born again Christians ? Was it a Muslim who > blew up the Oklahoma building ? By your logic, all christians should be > persecuted too. You read Daily Kos, don't you? > Are americans so racist that they have no ability to differentiate > between an individual (Bin Ladin) and a religion that has hundreds of > millions of followers ? > > The whole point of this is that it is exactly because of the way the USA > treats muslims that a couple of muslims become extremists and want to > hurt the USA. Muslims are like bees. They leave you alone when you let You're saying that Muslims are insects? Quite inflammatory and degrading. > them do their business in peace, but mess with their way of life, and > they will sting. The USA has yet to learn to respect the muslims and let > them live they way they want to live. The terrorism problem will not be > solved until americans learn not to interfere with their lives and until > the USA becomes neutral in the Israel vs Middle-East conflict. All during the 1950s and early 1960s, the US would not sell arms to Israel. That's why they had Dassault fighter planes and created their own small arms industry. Guess what? The Arabs *still* attacked Israel. The whole "they'll like us when we stop supporting Israel" idea is a steaming pile of shit. > It is disconcerting that americans can't even grasp such simple concepts > of international diplomacy. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:20:59 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: <404ri.7595$BX3.6225@newsfe13.lga> On 07/29/07 02:16, Paul Raulerson wrote: [snip] > > Just what exactly do you find wrong with that picture, beyond the > fact you have exaggerated the analogy? Your own history is pretty > well fraught with fighting those exact same "Indians." The > Netherlands has fought against Muslims for quite a while, > including ganging up against them with Portugal in Malaysia. Three words: Theo van Gogh. > Muslims never bothered us much before they starting slamming > airplanes into buildings. We never bothered them until they did > that either. Also remember, that wasn't their first attempt- just > their first really successful one. Two more words: Achille Lauro. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:22:45 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: <352b4$46accd44$cef8887a$11019@TEKSAVVY.COM> Ron Johnson wrote: > The whole "they'll like us when we stop supporting Israel" idea is a > steaming pile of shit. You wouldn't be able to grasp more evolved concepts such as "our blind support for Israel prevents establishement of a real peace in middle east". It is VERY different than what you stated above. For you, it is black or white. If we say that your blind biased support for Israel is hurting the peace process, your response is "if we widthdraw all support, it won't automatically create peace". For peace to happen, there are many pieces of the puzzle that must fit into place. You work piece by piece. And one of those pieces is the way the USA gives Israel special protection which it does not give to other countries. It is an irritant that prevents real peace from happening. It doesn't require the USA to stop supporting Israel alltogether. Same thing with Iraq. The debate in the USA is at baby levels. To have troups or to widthdraw troups alltogether. This is stupid. There is no debate on the mandate given to troups, there is no real debate on establising a real government that the people of Iraq will respect (instead of one which is friendly to the USA) etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:03:10 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Multinet OOB (non-inline) character processing Message-ID: Hi, This question's easier than the first one so please help if you've done this. I'd simply like to see a $QIO _BG: driver example example of a server (or client) receiving an OOB character (*NOT* IN-LINED) from their partner and displaying it. I have code that works perfectly well on UCX and TCPware but on Multinet the following happens: - My works and the AST fires as expected. Then I go to read the OOB character with a $qio plus ucx$c_msg_oob as P4 - and the results I get vary from ss$_badparam to ss$_suspended So I say great, it was a false alarm and reset the OOBATTN AST which then fires immediately and says "Nope there's definitely an OOB character here! (It's just that we're not gonna let you read it, so loop around madly for a while :-)" Has anyone else experienced this or alternatively got a working example they'd be willing to share? Is the ss$_badparam really telling me there's a bad parameter and not just a missing OOB? Would a previous io$_sensemode have interfered with the sioatmark? Is there some incantation or dead-chicken-waving such as rather than using P4 flags? (As a side issue and although I can't produce an example here, I am also open to the idea that elsewhere Multinet will return a ss$_suspended to a non-blocking read even if the pipe is broken, but that's one for another day) I must be doing something wrong but the fact that it's rockin' and rollin' on UCX is a bit off-putting. Thanks for any help. Cheers Richard Maher PS. Is it just me that thinks TCPware is a *whole* lot more UCX BG Driver compatible than Multinet? "David J Dachtera" wrote in message news:46A22998.AA9FBC45@spam.comcast.net... > Richard Maher wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Alpha VMS 7.3-1 and Multinet 5.0 and the $QIO interface to the BG: driver. > > > > When I try to set the Socket Option ucx$c_full_duplex_close (on its own, or > > in the same call to create the socket) I get SS$_PROTOCOL returned. > > > > This option is obviously available in UCX, and the TCPWare docs say it's > > been supported for the last ten years but somehow it's never been included > > with Multinet. Is that correct? Is there a version later than 5.0 that > > supports it? > > > > I'm now having to code around the problem (by trying for FDC and if I get > > ss$_protocol then drop the option) but full_duplex_close is a pretty damned > > useful piece of functionality and I'm really curious as to the reasons > > behind the lack of support or whether there are any plans to include it in a > > future version? > > I've cross-posted to the Multinet newsgroup. Perhaps someone from PSC will > respond. > > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems > http://www.djesys.com/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:49:54 GMT From: Ttoom Subject: Unloading some VAXStations and DEC hardware Message-ID: Hi Folks, I thought I'd try here before my old equipment hits the dumpster. If there's a happy home somewhere, I'd be glad to give you any of the hardware for free, so long as you pay shipping (or pick it up; I'm in the Boston area). AFAIK, all of the systems are working and boot either into OpenVMS (the 4000) or BSD (the 3100s). * VAXStation 4000 VLC + Manual * Storage Expansion (has a TK50 drive and a hard drive; currently plugged into the above VS4000) + Manual * 2 x VAXStation 3100 M38 with 3-1/4" floppy drive * mice and keyboards and some spare SCSI drives for the above systems * VS40X 8 Plane Color Option Card (untested) * LA50 printer (also works) * 2 x VRC16 monitor (both work) Any takers? Please reply to me directly. --Steve ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jul 2007 08:01:26 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: What does GEM mean? Message-ID: In article <46AB2BA3.7090100@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > P. Sture wrote: >> In article , >> John Reagan wrote: >> >> >>>John Reagan wrote: >>> >>> >>>>German words like straße (5 chars long) and STRASSE (6 chars long). >>> >>>and to compound the problem, I can't count. :-) >> >> >> And why would a compiler author need to? :-) >> > > Indeed! That's what computers are for! If God had meant us to count > above twenty he would have given us more digits! ;-) If God had meant us to count in base 10, she would not have made our thumbs look so different. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:15:51 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: What does GEM mean? Message-ID: In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > In article <46AB2BA3.7090100@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" > writes: > > P. Sture wrote: > >> In article , > >> John Reagan wrote: > >> > >> > >>>John Reagan wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>German words like straße (5 chars long) and STRASSE (6 chars long). > >>> > >>>and to compound the problem, I can't count. :-) > >> > >> > >> And why would a compiler author need to? :-) > >> > > > > Indeed! That's what computers are for! If God had meant us to count > > above twenty he would have given us more digits! ;-) > > If God had meant us to count in base 10, she would not have made our > thumbs look so different. LOL. There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those with friends. (Sorry, could not resist) -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:38:07 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: What does GEM mean? Message-ID: <1185730687.776277.73860@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Jul 29, 9:01 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > In article <46AB2BA3.7090...@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > > > > > > P. Sture wrote: > >> In article , > >> John Reagan wrote: > > >>>John Reagan wrote: > > >>>>German words like stra=DFe (5 chars long) and STRASSE (6 chars long). > > >>>and to compound the problem, I can't count. :-) > > >> And why would a compiler author need to? :-) > > > Indeed! That's what computers are for! If God had meant us to count > > above twenty he would have given us more digits! ;-) > > If God had meant us to count in base 10, she would not have made our > thumbs look so different.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I always thought God was a base 4 machine programer (A-T-C-G) and a base 20 virtual machine programmer (the amino acids). Of course if you want to get technical, the base 4 stuff is also part of a virual machine because the real trick was the base 18 stuff (6 quarks x 3 colors). :-) Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:01:38 -0500 From: MaYhEm Subject: www.loreenadiver.co.uk free games Message-ID: www.loreenadiver.co.uk free games ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.412 ************************