INFO-VAX Tue, 21 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 458 Contents: Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind? Re: EMACS [was: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas] Re: Getting sftp to work in batch mode Re: Global warming says Wisconsin professor a hoax! Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Re: Looking for SEDT source code Re: Question about FTP and filenames Re: Reading non-VMS DAT tape Re: Reading non-VMS DAT tape Slightly OT: Article search "Whatever Happened to Fred's BBS?" VMS 8.3 and TCPIP X.Y: the killer application Re: VMS 8.3 and TCPIP X.Y: the killer application Wisconsin professor says global warming a hoax! Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:52:03 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind? Message-ID: <1187707923.265061.135670@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Aug 20, 10:06 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > From: AEF > > > > Why stop at V7.2? Of the V7's, I would (and did) pick V7.3-2. V7.2 > > > barely has ODS5. > > > Because I have the 7.2 disk(s) lying around somewhere and no others. > > The Hobbyist CD-ROM has V7.3. Later kits are often available if you > ask for them. > > > I've got work to do, besides!!! (I have no VAX/Alpha/Integrity boxes > > at home.) > > Everyone needs VMS junk at home. What do you do with your time now? Well, I spend 3 hours a day commuting, for one thing. The rest is none of your business. >:-| > > > I think I'll go with the test drive option. Will it let me upload my > > TO.COM via FTP? > > FTP and Telnet to a TestDrive system work. There seems to be no > outbound network access from a TestDrive system. (You may be able to > get from one to itself or to another one, however. Much useful stuff, > like SET DISPLAY back to the real world, or wget to fetch something, is > doomed.) That's fine. I just want to play around with TO.COM on an ODS-5 volume. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 AEF ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 2007 07:33:13 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: EMACS [was: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas] Message-ID: In article , Rich Alderson writes: > Current maintainer, MIT TECO EMACS (v. 170) So will MIT TECO EMACS run on top of the teco-c I have running on my Windoze box, or does it need a real TECO engine from MIT? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:30:04 -0400 From: "Carl Friedberg" Subject: Re: Getting sftp to work in batch mode Message-ID: <890539d90708210830h6a2bcb3ap34dac919872128cc@mail.gmail.com> I'll second what Steven says: get the other side to run the ssh daemon manually, and tell you exactly why it is rejecting the key. I've had the same experience: bad file or directory permissions on the remote side. The ssh daemon is fussier than Larrry Kilgallen about this :-) HTH, Carl On 8/17/07, Steven M. Schweda wrote: > > However, trying to get into HP-UX: > > [...] > > Well, _my_ problem was bad permissions on my HP-UX "~/.ssh" > directory. Knowing nothing, I killed the sshd, ran it manually with > debug ("/usr/sbin/sshd -ddd"), and saw the permissions complaint in the > output. (umask = 0 is often not good. Who sets this stuff?) A real > HP-UX administrator would probably know enough to look in > /var/adm/syslog/syslog.log for stuff like this: > > Aug 17 15:36:14 dy sshd[4593]: Authentication refused: bad ownership or > modes for directory /home/sms/.ssh > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 > ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 2007 11:31:04 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Global warming says Wisconsin professor a hoax! Message-ID: In article <1187702610.021345.32740@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes: > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57253 > ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 2007 07:26:55 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Message-ID: In article <46C9DB48.9EE972C@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > Did you have the source and the build environment to build a new (unsupported) > VMS kernel, or did you just include kernel-mode code in a routine that could be > LINKed to your driver code, bypassing the kernel code you were replacing? For drivers I've either written my own routine as part of the driver, or added code to my driver so that I could use the faulty kernel code as was. I have never built a VMS kernel. I've added kernel code and I've patched kernel code (on VAXen, using PATCH on the .EXE or console deposit commands for temporary edits, and on Alpha using kernel mode code instead of deposit commands) to change behaviour. Fortunately I've only had to change writeable kernel data cells on Alpha. PATCHing kernel .EXE on VAXen to change the instruction stream was more fun. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:27:31 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Looking for SEDT source code Message-ID: <46ca85d9$0$21926$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> dave weatherall wrote: > Dr. Dweeb wrote: > >> Paul McIlfatrick wrote: >>> Back on 22nd November 2005 Lee Roth posted the following article in >>> the comp.unix.solaris newsgroup: >>> >>>> Briefly: I have permission from the original author of SEDT (Anker >>>> Berg-Sonne) to make my modified-for-Solaris binary + source files >>>> available. >>>> >>>> If you've never used the DEC EDT editor I certainly don't suggest >>>> you begin to do so now, but if you are an old-time DEC user like >>>> me that has the EDT editor burned deep into your brain's ROM, you >>>> may want to give this powerful EDT-on-steroids editor a look. >>>> >>>> I had to do a couple of minor tweaks to get the sources to >>>> compile, but I have created a binary that runs on Solaris 7, 8 >>>> and 9 (Sparc) and a separate binary that (at least) Solaris 7 on >>>> Intel platforms. I have not yet tested the binary on Solaris 10 >>>> (Sparc). >>>> >>>> Additional details at http://easy48.com/sedt/ >>>> >>>> Check out the above link... if interested, please respond to this >>>> posting. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Lee Roth >>> >>> A few days ago I posted an article to the comp.unix.solaris >>> newsgroup asking if Lee Roth had ever made the modified-for-Solaris >>> binary + source files available. I got three replies, each trying >>> to be funny about painting the numlock key gold. >>> >>> In Alan Roth's article he mentioned the http://easy48.com/sedt/ web >>> page and it still exists. Some days ago I sent an e-mail to Lee at >>> the address he gives on that page but so far there has been no >>> reply. >>> >>> >>> As someone who started out on VMS back in 1983 and got used to >>> programming DCL and using EDT, I have never got used to vi on >>> Solaris after my company moved to Sun machines around 1996. >>> >>> >>> Do any of you people who read this newsgroup know: >>> >>> 1) is the SEDT source available somewhere on the Internet for >>> download (Google search didn't turn up anything)? >>> >>> or >>> >>> 2) is there SEDT Solaris binary available (I know this is a VMS >>> newsgroup!)? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> Paul McIlfatrick >> >> SEDT, now there are some memories. That was my editor of choice on >> my Rainbow 100+ (a sturdy machine that lived for more than a decade >> before expiring). violins please ... >> >> Anyway, what is the best choice for a free "windows" editor with a >> fully functional EDT interface (incl. macros) ? I do not work in the >> VMS world anymore, so I am editing on windows and I admit that I miss >> TPU/EDT. >> >> cheers >> Dweeb > > Did you never try Anker's Windows version of SEDT. It does work but > can be a bit frustrating with the numlock key behaviour...I still use > it on W2k/XP occasionally. No. I did not know it existsed. DO you have a link. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 2007 07:36:31 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Question about FTP and filenames Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > From a MAC, I ftp to a vms box, and then issue: > > SEND ~/Desktop/VT500_parser.png > > The file that gets created on VMS is: > > _Users_JFMEZEI_Desktop_vt500_parser.png;1 > > Would it be correct to state that it is the MAC's fault for not removing > path information from the filename being sent to the remote FTP server ? I don't believe the RFC calls for path removal. I think SEND just takes a "file name" and says nothing about presence or manipulation of path. IMHO, it should have sent "~/Desktop/" as the path, not the resolved path. But I don't think the RFC says. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 2007 07:42:49 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Reading non-VMS DAT tape Message-ID: <+I6oBMvM02TO@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1187671475.213273.65550@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, rtk writes: > I have an old 4mm DAT tape that was made on a PC using Novaback about > ten years ago. I also have a running Alphaserver 1000 4/200 with a > working DAT drive (I've read VMS format tapes with it). > > Does anyone know a way to pull data of a 4mm DAT tape that was made on > a PC? You can mount the tape /foreign and read the blocks to a file with COPY. But what's in those blocks may not be trivial, and you may have a hard time figuring out how Novaback stored disk data on tape (did it just copy the FAT table, how did it copy directory entries, ...). Also, Novaback may or may not have made multiple physical files so multiple COPY commands may be needed to get all the blocks off tape. IMHO I'd use a few search engines to search for Novaback and see if you can dig up some information on its tape format and/or the people who might know. > Also, what is the simplest way to backup the system disk onto a DAT > tape? The simplest way is to log in as SYSTEM and do a BACKUP/IMAGE. Better ways include using standalone BACKUP so that you know there are no open files on the system disk and including /VERIFY so that you know the tape copy is good. I generally also increase the block size to at least 16K (16384) when using any kind of tape. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:43:52 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Reading non-VMS DAT tape Message-ID: In article <+I6oBMvM02TO@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >In article <1187671475.213273.65550@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, rtk writes: >> I have an old 4mm DAT tape that was made on a PC using Novaback about >> ten years ago. I also have a running Alphaserver 1000 4/200 with a >> working DAT drive (I've read VMS format tapes with it). >> >> Does anyone know a way to pull data of a 4mm DAT tape that was made on >> a PC? > > You can mount the tape /foreign and read the blocks to a file > with COPY. But what's in those blocks may not be trivial, and you > may have a hard time figuring out how Novaback stored disk data on > tape (did it just copy the FAT table, how did it copy directory > entries, ...). Also, Novaback may or may not have made multiple > physical files so multiple COPY commands may be needed to get all > the blocks off tape. > > IMHO I'd use a few search engines to search for Novaback and see if > you can dig up some information on its tape format and/or the > people who might know. > >> Also, what is the simplest way to backup the system disk onto a DAT >> tape? > > The simplest way is to log in as SYSTEM and do a BACKUP/IMAGE. > Since there will be open files on the system disk if you are not prepared to shutdown the system to do a standalone backup then use the /ignore=interlock command with backup/image ie backup/image/ignore=interlock This will backup the contents of opened files whereas without this the open files would not be backed up which will leave you with a pretty poor backup. Generally using /ignore=interlock is reasonably safe since most of the open files on the system disk are just being read from rather than being written to. (The only problems I have ever had restoring such a backup was once with the queue database getting corrupted). Another alternative which is often used in order to avoid shutting down the system is to shadow the system disk and then split the shadowset and back up the removed member. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University > Better ways include using standalone BACKUP so that you know there > are no open files on the system disk and including /VERIFY so that > you know the tape copy is good. I generally also increase the block > size to at least 16K (16384) when using any kind of tape. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:18:08 -0700 From: yyyc186 Subject: Slightly OT: Article search "Whatever Happened to Fred's BBS?" Message-ID: <1187716688.709484.277980@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Hello all, I keep thinking about this article I read when I was young and impressionable. I swear I thought I read it in Programmer's Journal, but it could have been another geek magazine. Been looking for a copy. We should frame some copies and send them to HP's upper management. Twenty Years ago this article predicted exactly what they would do. If anybody has a link to it, please post. Roland ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:39:16 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: VMS 8.3 and TCPIP X.Y: the killer application Message-ID: I've been meaning to upgrade from 7.3-2 to 8.3 for a while now anyway, but I need to accelerate the process for the following reason. I'm starting to generate a lot of backscatter spam from people sending me email to bogus addresses which are also invalid VMS usernames (and also not handled by logical names, SET FORWARD etc). (That is, I bounce them and the (faked) sender gets the spam, or they get bounced back to me.) Can I go straight from 7.3-2 to 8.3? What is the newest TCPIP for 8.3? Will it fix my problem (i.e. Symbiont-Checks-Deliverability: FALSE will silently drop all mail to addresses, whether they are valid VMS usernames or not)? Any issues with 8.3? Any issues with the latest TCPIP for 8.3? What about clustering with 7.3 VAX? Is it supported? Is it expected to work (i.e. there is no reason why it shouldn't, but it hasn't been officially certified)? Does it depend? Should I expect it NOT to work? (Actually, I have enough ALPHAs now to run an all-ALPHA cluster, and it would make some things easier, but a) I don't want to see the VAXes go, b) the VAXes have more stable hardware and c) the VAXes have more stable software.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:45:09 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS 8.3 and TCPIP X.Y: the killer application Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > >I've been meaning to upgrade from 7.3-2 to 8.3 for a while now anyway, >but I need to accelerate the process for the following reason. I'm >starting to generate a lot of backscatter spam from people sending me >email to bogus addresses which are also invalid VMS usernames (and also >not handled by logical names, SET FORWARD etc). (That is, I bounce them >and the (faked) sender gets the spam, or they get bounced back to me.) > >Can I go straight from 7.3-2 to 8.3? I have. >What is the newest TCPIP for 8.3? Comes with the distro: V5.6 >Will it fix my problem (i.e. Symbiont-Checks-Deliverability: FALSE will >silently drop all mail to addresses, whether they are valid VMS >usernames or not)? I don't use the TCPIP Services SMTP so I can't answer this. >Any issues with 8.3? I've had none. I did upgrade a client site recently and there are some issues with Advanced Server 7.3B running on V8.3 but as for V8.3, I've not had any issues. >Any issues with the latest TCPIP for 8.3? For what it is, it works. >What about clustering with 7.3 VAX? Is it supported? Is it expected to >work (i.e. there is no reason why it shouldn't, but it hasn't been >officially certified)? Does it depend? Should I expect it NOT to work? Supported? I don't think so. Does it work, YES! >(Actually, I have enough ALPHAs now to run an all-ALPHA cluster, and it >would make some things easier, but a) I don't want to see the VAXes go, >b) the VAXes have more stable hardware and c) the VAXes have more stable >software.) I only use them (VAXs) to build VAX product and then they are powered down. Yes, there are production sites still running on OpenVMS VAX. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:23:30 -0700 From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Wisconsin professor says global warming a hoax! Message-ID: <1187702610.021345.32740@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57253 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:26:46 -0700 From: Andrew Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1187695606.340282.136320@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On 17 Aug, 22:40, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 08/17/07 08:03, Andrew wrote: > [snip] > > > > > While it may well be true that Linux and Windows lack reliable > > workload management the same cannot be said for UNIX which has > > supported this for some time. Solaris has Zones/Containers hooked into > > workload management, while both HP-UX and AIX also have support for > > workload managers although without the container type features of > > Solaris. > > > All the major commercial UNIX platforms allow administrators to > > restrict the amount of resource used by an application to a share of > > the system ensuring that all apps get the service they need. In the > > case of Solaris the apps can be running in a container which looks > > like another instance of the OS but in fact isn't. > > > BSD Jails are very similar to Solaris Zones/Containers. > > Linux *does*, though, have CPU percentage limiting software.http://cpulimit.sourceforge.net/ > Limiting CPU resources on an app/user basis is only one small aspect of workload management. Most commercial customers who use this kind of functionality also require memory management and I/O management. > BTW, how does one limit CPU percentage in VMS? > > -- > Ron Johnson, Jr. > Jefferson LA USA > > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:30:06 -0700 From: Andrew Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1187695806.164330.148670@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On 17 Aug, 23:08, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ron Johnson [mailto:ron.l.john...@cox.net] > > Sent: August 17, 2007 5:40 PM > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal > > champion > > > On 08/17/07 08:03, Andrew wrote: > > [snip] > > > > While it may well be true that Linux and Windows lack reliable > > > workload management the same cannot be said for UNIX which has > > > supported this for some time. Solaris has Zones/Containers hooked > > into > > > workload management, while both HP-UX and AIX also have support for > > > workload managers although without the container type features of > > > Solaris. > > > > All the major commercial UNIX platforms allow administrators to > > > restrict the amount of resource used by an application to a share of > > > the system ensuring that all apps get the service they need. In the > > > case of Solaris the apps can be running in a container which looks > > > like another instance of the OS but in fact isn't. > > > > BSD Jails are very similar to Solaris Zones/Containers. > > > Linux *does*, though, have CPU percentage limiting software. > >http://cpulimit.sourceforge.net/ > > > BTW, how does one limit CPU percentage in VMS? > > > -- > > Class scheduler: > $ mcr sysman > Sysman> help class (see ADD, DELETE, MODIFY, SHOW, SUSPEND) > > .. > > ADD > > The ADD command creates a new scheduling class. > > The class scheduler provides the ability to limit the amount > of CPU time that a system's users receive by placing users in > scheduling classes. Each class is assigned a percentage of the > overall system CPU time. As the system runs, the combined set of > users in a class is limited to the percentage of CPU execution > time allocated to their class. > > Users might get some additional CPU time if the qualifier > /WINDFALL is enabled for their scheduling class. Enabling the > qualifier /WINDFALL allows the system to give a small amount > of CPU time to a scheduling class when the scheduling class's > allotted time has been depleted, but a free CPU is available. > > Other ways of managing workloads include: > - setting process priorities > - restricting processes to specific cpu's (can also be performance enhancement > as caching has better chance of not being flushed) > > Regards > > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660 > Fax: 613-591-4477 > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT) > > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. Does this support fair share scheduling or is it a simple capscheme. Most people want the flexibility of fairshare rather than a simple cap. regards Andrew Harrison ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 2007 06:36:12 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: In article <1187695606.340282.136320@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Andrew writes: > Limiting CPU resources on an app/user basis is only one small aspect > of workload management. Most commercial customers who use this kind of > functionality also require memory management and I/O management. On VMS the latter two fall in the general category of "quotas", which have been available since the start of VMS and are quite visible to average system manager. The Class Scheduler, on the other hand, has only been around for about 20 years, and only for the last 10 years has there been a command line interface. That is why you find some people in this group not familiar with it. Due to the way most people get the documentation for new VMS release these days, there are no longer "change pages" to be devoured in detail with each new release. One must be content with the New Features Manual, which does not necessarily emphasize the same things I would emphasize :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:01:46 -0700 From: Andrew Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1187701306.640606.132370@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On 21 Aug, 12:36, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > In article <1187695606.340282.136...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Andrew writes: > > > Limiting CPU resources on an app/user basis is only one small aspect > > of workload management. Most commercial customers who use this kind of > > functionality also require memory management and I/O management. > > On VMS the latter two fall in the general category of "quotas", which > have been available since the start of VMS and are quite visible to > average system manager. > > The Class Scheduler, on the other hand, has only been around for about > 20 years, and only for the last 10 years has there been a command line > interface. That is why you find some people in this group not familiar > with it. Due to the way most people get the documentation for new VMS > release these days, there are no longer "change pages" to be devoured in > detail with each new release. One must be content with the New Features > Manual, which does not necessarily emphasize the same things I would > emphasize :-) It has been possible to add classes to the UNIX scheduler since at least the introduction of Solaris 2.0 in 1992. However few if any customers mad use of this until Sun introduced a fairshare scheduler and supporting tools in Solaris 9. As a matter of interest does OpenVMS provide support for fairshare scheduling? regards Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:30:01 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: On 08/21/07 06:26, Andrew wrote: [snip] > > Limiting CPU resources on an app/user basis is only one small aspect > of workload management. Most commercial customers who use this kind of > functionality also require memory management and I/O management. OK, call me stupid. Aren't those core duties of the OS? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 2007 11:22:52 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <0pbqUXKeLnvU@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1187701306.640606.132370@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Andrew writes: > > It has been possible to add classes to the UNIX scheduler since at > least the introduction of Solaris 2.0 in 1992. However few if any > customers mad use of this until Sun introduced a fairshare scheduler > and supporting tools in Solaris 9. Add classes to the UNIX scheduler or add classes to the Solaris scheduler? IMHO the former means I could do it on Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, digitial UNIX, ...; the latter means its proprietary to Sun. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 2007 11:29:40 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson writes: > On 08/21/07 06:26, Andrew wrote: > [snip] >> >> Limiting CPU resources on an app/user basis is only one small aspect >> of workload management. Most commercial customers who use this kind of >> functionality also require memory management and I/O management. > > OK, call me stupid. Aren't those core duties of the OS? That depends on who designed the OS and what design criteria were applied. Certainly early versions of UNIX, VMS, and many other OS did not limit CPU useage to a percentage (as discussed earlier in this thread), nor I/O throughput. VMS always had limited cpu priority, memory useage, and I/O queuing on a per process basis. Prioritizing I/O and limiting cpu on a percentage basis per process came later. Early UNIX limited some kinds of memory use but not others. I don't recall seeing any limits on I/O, but some UNIX may have them now. RTOS, like VxWorks, tend not to limit anything, it's up to the system level design to make sure things work, but individual users aren't generally a problem. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.458 ************************