INFO-VAX Thu, 30 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 475 Contents: Re: COBOL Transactions? Could disk shadowing stress SCSI? Re: Could disk shadowing stress SCSI? Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Info-VAX (was Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system) Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question RE: Itanium Port Question Re: Lock problem with SAMBA/NMBD Re: Lock problem with SAMBA/NMBD Patent system a farce when it comes to software Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: What'd you do in the war Grand-dad? (was Re: Itanium Port Question) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:58:29 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: <9vpBi.13729$Zg.6971@trnddc08> Paul Raulerson wrote: > >> >>Then why, pray tell, are you f*****' around with a 4mm drive? >> > > > LOL! That was the whole point, I'm *not*. I may need to on an Itanium, but > as of today, I haven't even figured out which Itanium to order, or if it > makes > more sense to attend one of those HP sessions where they *give* you one. ;) > > I do not know what the backup options for a low end Itanium are. > > My rx2620 from the HP porting workshop came with an NEC DVD+/-RW drive, but I haven't used if for backing anything up... (I think someone else wrote a CD on it once.) What we are currently using for backup is a pair (or 3?) of USB external drives, once a week a batch job does backup/image of all the drives on our cluster, a random assortment of internal SCSI, storageworks, and even several DSSI disks on our VAX, to one of the external USB disks. Next day, someone brings it home and returns with the other one. We also do nightly incremental backups to a save set on an NFS-served Sun, which then gets backed up to a DLT drive on the Sun. (Not saying this scheme makes perfect sense, but just that there's an infinite number of ways to skin a cat, and we have been able to restore disks, more or less, in earnest.) This is purely a development system, so losing a bunch of edits would be a pain but not a disaster. >>In another post in this thread you wrote... >> >>"I'm excited about it, and know I need to move this to Itanium, but >>being >>cheap, I think I will do a porting event thing as soon as I have >>enough >>ported, working, and tested on the little Alpha here. The only issue >>with >>the Alpha is that the 4mm tape drive on it does not seem to be >>recognized. > > > Yep.. "the" Alpha sitting in the equipment room upstairs sure doesn't > know how to talk to the old 4mm that was installed in it. > > >>It sure looks like you're saying that the Alpha doesn't know how to >>talk to tape (ANY tape) to me! >> > > > "The" Alpha - meaning the one machine sitting >>> here <<< doesn't > know how to talk to that one tape. There is a hardware issue with > this *one* Alpha. > > I'm dead sure that Alpha machines running VMS have no trouble talking > to tape drives. > > But to swing this around to a more productive subject, what backup options > are available on low end Itanimum Integrity systems that would be suitable > for daily use by non-technical users. > > Hardly any of the very small SMB shops will have the backup capability I > have here, nor the skill to engineer a disaster recovery situation. I > need to do that for them, on the cheap, and in such as way as it is not > too ornerous for them to do every day. > > Stick a tape in and go away will probably be about the level I need to > get to. > > Given that a very small SMB install might not have all that much data, > a DVD backup might not be out of the question, but it is more expensive. > > Going along that line of thought, here is what I pretty much envision > at least attempting to do, none of which will prove out until I put an > Itanium machine here to test it on. > > (1) Recovery DVD that blows an IPL image onto a disk with both VMS and my > software. > Result should be a booting system with software up to date with the last > recovery > DVD version I put together. Preferably the DVD is bootable and will start > the recovery > procedure after asking the user to okay it. > > (2) Some kind of rewritable or daily storage that contains images of, or > periodic > full backups and incremental backups of the critical data and any software > patches > installed on the system. > > (3) Recovery/whatever program or DCL or ??? that manages the restore of the > data. > > > So in a worst case disaster recovery situation, the user will receive a new > machine, > stick in DVD#1, IPL, follow the prompts and 15 minutes later come out with a > machine > that boots into the base software. > > He then loads Tape, DVD#2, whatever it winds up being, and restores his > application data and > any patches that may have been put on the system since the DVD version. > > He re-ipls, and zap... he is back in business. I would like the entire > process to take > less than an hour, and also be the same or very similar to the process used > for a new customer. > > > Larger SMB shops will of course, be more complex as the system will have to > be integrated into > their existing backup/restore and DR situations. That will take consulting > $$ most likely. > > See the idea though? Everything about the entire process needs to be simple, > documented, and > as standardized as possible, otherwise we will drown under a landslide of > support requests. > It is also why I am not overly concerned with the Alpha tape drive > working or not. > I simply lack the detailed knowledge of the Integrity platform necessary to > make any > rational descisions along those lines. > > Advice or suggestions always welcome, as with the recent WASD webserver > thing. :) > > > -Paul > -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:14:38 -0700 From: tadamsmar Subject: Could disk shadowing stress SCSI? Message-ID: <1188414878.371078.292290@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> I noticed I was getting soft errors when adding a member to a shadow set. The errors are for the disks, but they show a SCSI STATUS of CHECK CONDITION in DIAGNOSE. Could it be that the SCSI is stressed during the period of heavy activity when a shadow set is being reconstituted? One of the disks had just ran clean for ANAL/MEDIA/EXER so I don't see how the errors could be from the disk. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:23:14 -0500 From: bradhamilton@comcast.net (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: Could disk shadowing stress SCSI? Message-ID: In article <1188414878.371078.292290@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar wrote: >I noticed I was getting soft errors when adding a member to a shadow >set. The same happens to me - the disk involved is a different physical configuration (1" vs. "full-height") than its partner. No other errors occur after the copy or merge is complete. In my many years' experience working with shadowed disks, this is not a cause for concern. >The errors are for the disks, but they show a SCSI STATUS of CHECK >CONDITION in DIAGNOSE. > >Could it be that the SCSI is stressed during the period of heavy >activity when a shadow set is being reconstituted? > >One of the disks had just ran clean for ANAL/MEDIA/EXER >so I don't see how the errors could be from the disk. My experience tells me that disks are in trouble when they throw "many" errors in a "short" time (for some values of "many" and "short"). Of course, since you are using shadowing, it will cost no more than the price of another drive to determine if there is indeed a problem with your "problem" disk. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:57:15 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Message-ID: Robert Jarratt wrote: > "John Santos" wrote in message > news:M_Nzi.7635$Bv1.4100@trnddc06... > >>>At least some DECservers can boot using either MOP or BOOTP (TCP/IP >>>protocol). It attempts to boot using whatever was successful the last >>>time. If you have, as I once did, something that will answer a BOOTP >>>request, and a MOP boot fails, you can get a situation where the >>>DECserver switches over to BOOTP. The way out is to connect it to a VMS >>>system with a crossover cable making sure that VMS cannot respond to a >>>BOOTP request. When BOOTP fails it will try MOP which succeeds and >>>resets things. > > > I have not enabled BOOTP, unless it is enabled by default, so this should > not apply. > > >>There is a bit of magic that will cause a DECServer to reset to its >>factory default configuration. The exact sequence varies with model, >>but for some, I think you hold down the reset button while it's >>powering up. > > > Holding down the reset switch during power up fixed my first problem, which > was that it printed garbage on the console. I suspect that line was not set > to 9600,N,8,1. Now I can see the console, but it just tells me that there is > a load failure due to a timeout. > > >>Does your DECServer have a 7-segment LED display? If so, what is it >>doing? (IIRC, for most models, it counts down from about 8 to about >>3 while it selftests, and then waits for a download.) >> >>Do you have a terminal or emulator you can connect to port 1? Does >>it print anything? (8 bit, no parity, 9600 baud, IIRC.) >> >>Do you see any OPCOM messages on the VMS system when you power up >>the DECServer? If the load server (of whatever ilk, DECnet MOP, >>LANACP MOP, BOOTP) is running, it should notice the download >>request and log an OPCOM message, and then a 2nd message when it >>succeeds or fails or defers to another load host. >> > > > No, I do not see any OPCOM messages on the console. > > >>If there are no OPCOM messages, two possibilities: 1) If this is >>an AUI/Thin-wire DECServer, is the selector switch in the right >>position. (Twisted-pair DEC servers shouldn't have this issue :-) >>2) If the DECServer doesn't get a response to its load request, >>it will back off for a while and try again. Initially the back off >>is a minute or two, but I think it can grow to longer than you're >>probably willing to wait... like hours. Power-cycling should >>reset this. >> > > > This is an AUI box, but there is no selector switch I can see. When the > diagnostic lights on the DECserver indicate network activity I can see the > lights on the switch flash, so it is doing something and I think it is > getting to the LAN. > Okay, if it really is making boot requests, then lack of OPCOM messages means the VMS system isn't seeing them. If LANACP or DECNET MOP handler (forget what process/image this is) is configured incorrectly, then it would see MOP download requests from an unknown system and would log it to OPCOM, so it must either not be running or must not be listening on the correct ethernet adapter. Do you have more than one ethernet NIC? Are you running LANACP or DECnet? DECnet 4 or 5? If LANACP, post the output of LANCP's SHOW MOPDLL, SHOW DEVICE/CHAR, SHOW NODE/ALL and SHOW CONFIG commands For DECnet-5, $ mcr ncl show mop circuit * all For DECnet-4, I forget the commands. > Thanks > > Rob > > -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:55:00 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00626B3B85257346_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" "Tom Linden" wrote on 08/29/2007 01:28:41 PM: > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:06:04 -0700, wrote: > > > I'm a computer-assisted reporting specialist at a newspaper in Nevada > > -- my beat is essentially data mining in the public realm. I'm in the > > middle of negotiations for inspection records kept by the local health > > district in a VAX minicomputer that probably runs VMS. They are > > basically telling me that their system has no way of exporting data > > that's been entered over the years, which I find highly unlikely. > > Their IT department probably (a) doesn't know how or (b) just doesn't > > feel like it and hopes that this response will make me go away. > > > > All I want is a dump of these records into a file -- ideally as ASCII > > text, fixed-width or character-delimited. I've talked to some > > colleagues who have had limited VAX/VMS experience and have been told > > this is entirely possible: "They should definitely be able to get the > > data out, they might want to send it on a tape format, but unless > > they've got some really bizarre system, they should be able to copy it > > to some physical device or they can probably transfer it over a > > network to some other system to copy the data on to." > > > > Even if they have to dump it to reel-to-reel tapes or cartridges, I > > have a consultant in Missouri with equipment to transfer it to a > > different medium. > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Specific information like: > > - Further things to find out about their VAX computer > > - Commands to transfer this data out of the system in a usable format > > > > If I'm just out of luck and will have to spend hours building my own > > database from paper documents, I'd like to know that too. > > > They are giving you the run-around, there is likely many different ways to > extract the data, the method chosen depends on how it is stored. Tom is of course correct on all points. If the data is in a flat file, exporting it is easiest. If the data is encoded or in a database, some programming may be needed to reformat it. They may be saying there is no utility program supplied with their system to do this, but that is a far cry from making the task impossible. It comes down to resources, one of which is expertise. Getting it "off" the system is another eminently meetable challenge. The div'l'z in th' details. > > > Thank you, > > > > Alex Richards > > CAR Specialist > > Las Vegas Sun > > > > > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMS > www.kednos.com --=_alternative 00626B3B85257346_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> wrote on 08/29/2007 01:28:41 PM:

> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:06:04 -0700, <richards.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm a computer-assisted reporting specialist at a newspaper in Nevada
> > -- my beat is essentially data mining in the public realm.  I'm in the
> > middle of negotiations for inspection records kept by the local health
> > district in a VAX minicomputer that probably runs VMS.  They are
> > basically telling me that their system has no way of exporting data
> > that's been entered over the years, which I find highly unlikely.
> > Their IT department probably (a) doesn't know how or (b) just doesn't
> > feel like it and hopes that this response will make me go away.
> >
> > All I want is a dump of these records into a file -- ideally as ASCII
> > text, fixed-width or character-delimited.  I've talked to some
> > colleagues who have had limited VAX/VMS experience and have been told
> > this is entirely possible: "They should definitely be able to get the
> > data out, they might want to send it on a tape format,  but unless
> > they've got some really bizarre system, they should be able to copy it
> > to some physical device or they can probably transfer it over a
> > network to some other system to copy the data on to."
> >
> > Even if they have to dump it to reel-to-reel tapes or cartridges, I
> > have a consultant in Missouri with equipment to transfer it to a
> > different medium.
> >
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Specific information like:
> > - Further things to find out about their VAX computer
> > - Commands to transfer this data out of the system in a usable format
> >
> > If I'm just out of luck and will have to spend hours building my own
> > database from paper documents, I'd like to know that too.
> >
> They are giving you the run-around, there is likely many different ways to
> extract the data, the method chosen depends on how it is stored.


Tom is of course correct on all points.

If the data is in a flat file, exporting it is easiest.
If the data is encoded or in a database, some programming
may be needed to reformat it.

They may be saying there is no utility program supplied with their system
to do this, but that is a far cry from making the task impossible.

It comes down to resources, one of which is expertise.

Getting it "off" the system is another eminently meetable challenge.

The div'l'z in th' details.

>
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Alex Richards
> > CAR Specialist
> > Las Vegas Sun
> >
>
>
>
> --
> PL/I for OpenVMS
> www.kednos.com
--=_alternative 00626B3B85257346_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:13:55 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:55:00 -0700, wrote: > "Tom Linden" wrote on 08/29/2007 01:28:41 PM: > >> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:06:04 -0700, wrote: >> >> > I'm a computer-assisted reporting specialist at a newspaper in Nevada >> > -- my beat is essentially data mining in the public realm. I'm in the >> > middle of negotiations for inspection records kept by the local health >> > district in a VAX minicomputer that probably runs VMS. They are >> > basically telling me that their system has no way of exporting data >> > that's been entered over the years, which I find highly unlikely. >> > Their IT department probably (a) doesn't know how or (b) just doesn't >> > feel like it and hopes that this response will make me go away. >> > >> > All I want is a dump of these records into a file -- ideally as ASCII >> > text, fixed-width or character-delimited. I've talked to some >> > colleagues who have had limited VAX/VMS experience and have been told >> > this is entirely possible: "They should definitely be able to get the >> > data out, they might want to send it on a tape format, but unless >> > they've got some really bizarre system, they should be able to copy it >> > to some physical device or they can probably transfer it over a >> > network to some other system to copy the data on to." >> > >> > Even if they have to dump it to reel-to-reel tapes or cartridges, I >> > have a consultant in Missouri with equipment to transfer it to a >> > different medium. >> > >> > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Specific information like: >> > - Further things to find out about their VAX computer >> > - Commands to transfer this data out of the system in a usable format >> > >> > If I'm just out of luck and will have to spend hours building my own >> > database from paper documents, I'd like to know that too. >> > >> They are giving you the run-around, there is likely many different ways > to >> extract the data, the method chosen depends on how it is stored. > > Tom is of course correct on all points. > > If the data is in a flat file, exporting it is easiest. > If the data is encoded or in a database, some programming > may be needed to reformat it. > > They may be saying there is no utility program supplied with their system > to do this, but that is a far cry from making the task impossible. > > It comes down to resources, one of which is expertise. > > Getting it "off" the system is another eminently meetable challenge. > > The div'l'z in th' details. Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads by indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that? > >> >> > Thank you, >> > >> > Alex Richards >> > CAR Specialist >> > Las Vegas Sun >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> PL/I for OpenVMS >> www.kednos.com -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:19:42 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: <1188411582.501857.170450@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 12:06 pm, richards.a...@gmail.com wrote: > I'm a computer-assisted reporting specialist at a newspaper in Nevada > -- my beat is essentially data mining in the public realm. I'm in the > middle of negotiations for inspection records kept by the local health > district in a VAX minicomputer that probably runs VMS. They are > basically telling me that their system has no way of exporting data > that's been entered over the years, which I find highly unlikely. > Their IT department probably (a) doesn't know how or (b) just doesn't > feel like it and hopes that this response will make me go away. > > All I want is a dump of these records into a file -- ideally as ASCII > text, fixed-width or character-delimited. I've talked to some > colleagues who have had limited VAX/VMS experience and have been told > this is entirely possible: "They should definitely be able to get the > data out, they might want to send it on a tape format, but unless > they've got some really bizarre system, they should be able to copy it > to some physical device or they can probably transfer it over a > network to some other system to copy the data on to." > > Even if they have to dump it to reel-to-reel tapes or cartridges, I > have a consultant in Missouri with equipment to transfer it to a > different medium. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Specific information like: > - Further things to find out about their VAX computer > - Commands to transfer this data out of the system in a usable format > > If I'm just out of luck and will have to spend hours building my own > database from paper documents, I'd like to know that too. > "Local Health District" implies that there might be some rather personal and sensitive data stored in that system. I would hope this system is secure and that access to that data is highly restricted. I suspect they know exactly how to give you what you're asking for, but to do so would cost a bit more time and money than they have to spend. You imply that they gave you hard-copy that has the information you need, so maybe they can direct those reports to disk in ASCII format and copy those files up to tape or FTP them over to a PC where you can get it on portable media. You can then import it into a spread-sheet or whatever -- although a secured site might not allow any type of unencrypted electronic data transfer. If they can give you ASCII report data, though, I wouldn't expect them to do it for free (read: on the taxpayer's dollar.) ------------------------------ Date: 29 Aug 2007 18:30:51 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: <5jlsarF8d55U1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:55:00 -0700, wrote: > >> The div'l'z in th' details. > > Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads > by > indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that? My guess would be because his message has no "References:" header and appears as a new thread. :-) How or why he did this is anyone's guess. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:06:25 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0068F52385257346_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu wrote on 08/29/2007 02:30:51 PM: > In article , > "Tom Linden" writes: > > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:55:00 -0700, wrote: > > > >> The div'l'z in th' details. > > > > Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads > > by > > indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that? > > My guess would be because his message has no "References:" header > and appears as a new thread. :-) How or why he did this is anyone's > guess. Well, emoticons aside, I've no clue. I am reading in NotesMail from the Info-VAX listserve and merely replying. Sometimes it decides on it's own to employ mime-encoding. I just see a "Re: " in the Subject field and rarely try to view with threading as it takes too long to build the views. So you might as well ask IBM-Lotus. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include --=_alternative 0068F52385257346_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu wrote on 08/29/2007 02:30:51 PM:

> In article <op.txt19h06hv4qyg@murphus>,
>    "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> writes:
> > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:55:00 -0700, <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The div'l'z in th' details.
> >
> > Norm,  I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads  
> > by
> > indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread.  Why is that?
>
> My guess would be because his message has no "References:" header
> and appears as a new thread. :-)  How or why he did this is anyone's

> guess.

Well, emoticons aside, I've no clue.  I am reading in NotesMail from the
Info-VAX listserve and merely replying.  Sometimes it decides on it's own
to employ mime-encoding.  I just see a "Re: <subject>" in the Subject field
and rarely try to view with threading as it takes too long to build the views.

So you might as well ask IBM-Lotus.

>
> bill
>
> --
> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
> bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton   |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  
--=_alternative 0068F52385257346_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:11:48 -0000 From: richards.alex@gmail.com Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: <1188414708.414314.207500@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 11:19 am, Doug Phillips wrote: > On Aug 29, 12:06 pm, richards.a...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > I'm a computer-assisted reporting specialist at a newspaper in Nevada > > -- my beat is essentially data mining in the public realm. I'm in the > > middle of negotiations for inspection records kept by the local health > > district in a VAX minicomputer that probably runs VMS. They are > > basically telling me that their system has no way of exporting data > > that's been entered over the years, which I find highly unlikely. > > Their IT department probably (a) doesn't know how or (b) just doesn't > > feel like it and hopes that this response will make me go away. > > > All I want is a dump of these records into a file -- ideally as ASCII > > text, fixed-width or character-delimited. I've talked to some > > colleagues who have had limited VAX/VMS experience and have been told > > this is entirely possible: "They should definitely be able to get the > > data out, they might want to send it on a tape format, but unless > > they've got some really bizarre system, they should be able to copy it > > to some physical device or they can probably transfer it over a > > network to some other system to copy the data on to." > > > Even if they have to dump it to reel-to-reel tapes or cartridges, I > > have a consultant in Missouri with equipment to transfer it to a > > different medium. > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Specific information like: > > - Further things to find out about their VAX computer > > - Commands to transfer this data out of the system in a usable format > > > If I'm just out of luck and will have to spend hours building my own > > database from paper documents, I'd like to know that too. > > "Local Health District" implies that there might be some rather > personal and sensitive data stored in that system. I would hope this > system is secure and that access to that data is highly restricted. I > suspect they know exactly how to give you what you're asking for, but > to do so would cost a bit more time and money than they have to spend. > > You imply that they gave you hard-copy that has the information you > need, so maybe they can direct those reports to disk in ASCII format > and copy those files up to tape or FTP them over to a PC where you can > get it on portable media. You can then import it into a spread-sheet > or whatever -- although a secured site might not allow any type of > unencrypted electronic data transfer. If they can give you ASCII > report data, though, I wouldn't expect them to do it for free (read: > on the taxpayer's dollar.) I suppose I implied too much. They didn't give me hard copy -- they directed me toward filing cabinets and boxes of inspections reports (for restaurants, public pools, tattoo parlors) at $0.20 to $0.50 per copy/page plus staff time. Slightly out of my price range, unfortunately. They enter these forms into the VAX system. Regardless of what else is maintained on their VAX system, what I want is of public interested and has no exemption under state open records law. I'm not interested in disseminating private or personal information. Most agencies won't do it for free because they don't want to set that kind of precedent. I'm willing to pay a reasonable amount. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:47:01 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: <1188416821.708661.44830@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 2:11 pm, richards.a...@gmail.com wrote: > On Aug 29, 11:19 am, Doug Phillips wrote: > > > > > On Aug 29, 12:06 pm, richards.a...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > I'm a computer-assisted reporting specialist at a newspaper in Nevada > > > -- my beat is essentially data mining in the public realm. I'm in the > > > middle of negotiations for inspection records kept by the local health > > > district in a VAX minicomputer that probably runs VMS. They are > > > basically telling me that their system has no way of exporting data > > > that's been entered over the years, which I find highly unlikely. > > > Their IT department probably (a) doesn't know how or (b) just doesn't > > > feel like it and hopes that this response will make me go away. > > > > All I want is a dump of these records into a file -- ideally as ASCII > > > text, fixed-width or character-delimited. I've talked to some > > > colleagues who have had limited VAX/VMS experience and have been told > > > this is entirely possible: "They should definitely be able to get the > > > data out, they might want to send it on a tape format, but unless > > > they've got some really bizarre system, they should be able to copy it > > > to some physical device or they can probably transfer it over a > > > network to some other system to copy the data on to." > > > > Even if they have to dump it to reel-to-reel tapes or cartridges, I > > > have a consultant in Missouri with equipment to transfer it to a > > > different medium. > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Specific information like: > > > - Further things to find out about their VAX computer > > > - Commands to transfer this data out of the system in a usable format > > > > If I'm just out of luck and will have to spend hours building my own > > > database from paper documents, I'd like to know that too. > > > "Local Health District" implies that there might be some rather > > personal and sensitive data stored in that system. I would hope this > > system is secure and that access to that data is highly restricted. I > > suspect they know exactly how to give you what you're asking for, but > > to do so would cost a bit more time and money than they have to spend. > > > You imply that they gave you hard-copy that has the information you > > need, so maybe they can direct those reports to disk in ASCII format > > and copy those files up to tape or FTP them over to a PC where you can > > get it on portable media. You can then import it into a spread-sheet > > or whatever -- although a secured site might not allow any type of > > unencrypted electronic data transfer. If they can give you ASCII > > report data, though, I wouldn't expect them to do it for free (read: > > on the taxpayer's dollar.) > > I suppose I implied too much. They didn't give me hard copy -- they > directed me toward filing cabinets and boxes of inspections reports > (for restaurants, public pools, tattoo parlors) at $0.20 to $0.50 per > copy/page plus staff time. Slightly out of my price range, > unfortunately. > > They enter these forms into the VAX system. Regardless of what else > is maintained on their VAX system, what I want is of public interested > and has no exemption under state open records law. I'm not interested > in disseminating private or personal information. > > Most agencies won't do it for free because they don't want to set that > kind of precedent. I'm willing to pay a reasonable amount. Then it's possible the system doesn't maintain historical data on-line (older than some date), but they have archived it to some backup media (maybe it's just printed) and purged it from the current data-base. That's rather typical. Disk storage in the VAX era was very expensive and without knowing the particulars, I'd suspect they only keep the data on-line that they are required by law/regulation to keep. Even today's server storage isn't so cheap that you don't keep lots of stuff on-line that you don't need. In that case, you can probably understand why restoring it and regenerating the data electronically would not be practical. Even if the history is still in the data-base, while you don't want private and personal data it's there and there might not be an existing way to extract only the public portion you need without a programming effort -- which would take time and money. If it is there, and they can reprint the public reports for the period(s) you're after, then explore my suggestion. If it isn't there, or it has been summarized in a way you can't use, or they can't reprint it at all, then you're out of luck. We can only guess, and only they know for sure. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:03:20 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: On 08/29/07 14:47, Doug Phillips wrote: [snip] > > Then it's possible the system doesn't maintain historical data on-line > (older than some date), but they have archived it to some backup media Or lost it... -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:15:24 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: <1188418524.613986.130280@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 3:03 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 08/29/07 14:47, Doug Phillips wrote: > [snip] > > > > > Then it's possible the system doesn't maintain historical data on-line > > (older than some date), but they have archived it to some backup media > > Or lost it... > I think it's all on those stacks of 5-1/4" floppies setting over on that old x-ray machine in the corner:-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:22:40 +0200 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: <5jm31nF9n4uU1@mid.individual.net> On 2007-08-29 20:13, "Tom Linden" wrote: > Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads > by > indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that? I don't know Opera -- but there is *no* "References:" header at all in that posting which made its way through Info-VAX. Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:12:52 -0500 From: bradhamilton@comcast.net (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: In article <1188414708.414314.207500@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, richards.alex@gmail.com wrote: >> On Aug 29, 12:06 pm, richards.a...@gmail.com wrote >> > I'm a computer-assisted reporting specialist at a newspaper in Nevada [...] >I suppose I implied too much. They didn't give me hard copy -- they >directed me toward filing cabinets and boxes of inspections reports >(for restaurants, public pools, tattoo parlors) at $0.20 to $0.50 per >copy/page plus staff time. Slightly out of my price range, >unfortunately. > >They enter these forms into the VAX system. Regardless of what else >is maintained on their VAX system, what I want is of public interested >and has no exemption under state open records law. I'm not interested >in disseminating private or personal information. > >Most agencies won't do it for free because they don't want to set that >kind of precedent. I'm willing to pay a reasonable amount. Noting that you work for a newspaper, why should *you* pay for the information? Certainly, if the records are truly in the "public interest", then it is in the best interest of the newspaper (one of whose goals is to protect the "public interest") to pony up whatever monies are necessary to keep the public informed as to how their money is being spent. Then again, I'm probably incredibly naive enough to believe that a newspaper is something more that just a typical money-grubbing enterprise, whose only interest is to look after the welfare of their owners, to the detriment of their employees and the general public. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:19:34 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: <92f09$46d6285a$cef8b04d$22459@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free> To me the 'Bible' is the DEC Orange/Grey wall, just to bring things back into the spirit of c.o.v. What more does anyone need? Neil Rieck wrote: > Here's one for Bob. (hope it makes your head spin) > > Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed The Bible and Why > > When world-class biblical scholar Bart Ehrman first began to study the > texts of the Bible in their original languages he was startled to > discover the multitude of mistakes and intentional alterations that > had been made by earlier translators. In Misquoting Jesus, Ehrman > tells the story behind the mistakes and changes that ancient scribes > made to the New Testament and shows the great impact they had upon the > Bible we use today. He frames his account with personal reflections on > how his study of the Greek manuscripts made him abandon his once > ultraconservative views of the Bible. Since the advent of the printing > press and the accurate reproduction of texts, most people have assumed > that when they read the New Testament they are reading an exact copy > of Jesus's words or Saint Paul's writings. And yet, for almost fifteen > hundred years these manuscripts were hand copied by scribes who were > deeply influenced by the cultural, theological, and political disputes > of their day. Both mistakes and intentional changes abound in the > surviving manuscripts, making the original words difficult to > reconstruct. For the first time, Ehrman reveals where and why these > changes were made and how scholars go about reconstructing the > original words of the New Testament as closely as possible. Ehrman > makes the provocative case that many of our cherished biblical stories > and widely held beliefs concerning the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity, > and the divine origins of the Bible itself stem from both intentional > and accidental alterations by scribes -- alterations that dramatically > affected all subsequent versions of the Bible. > > Listen to a 53 minute interview here: > http://www.cbc.ca/tapestry/archives/2007/072207.html > > One Oxford bible scholar (John Mill) in 1707 published an in depth > 'textual analysis' of more than 100 biblical manuscripts documenting > more than 30,000 differences. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_analysis > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mill > Since then, other bible researchers have documented more than 100,000 > differences. > > Example-1, the story of the adulterous woman brought before Jesus is > total fiction and doesn't appear in any of the earliest manuscripts. > It was added by scribes who knew exactly what they were doing. > > Example-2, every last page (codex) of the Book of Revelation was > missing when St Jerome was working on the Latin Vulgate so he just > read a bunch of Greek manuscripts (which were mostly different) and > then translated the average meaning back into latin. (so much for all > the people who labor over every word in this strange book) > > Example-3, everyone today loves the King James Version but it appears > that this book is based upon a 12th century manuscript that just might > have been the worst choice for a bible (but there were not many others > available in Western Europe at the time) > > Food for thought: If the bible is the inspired word of God then why > did he allow all these people to mess around with it? Or, from what I > can see (I just finished reading the book) he seems to have gone out > of his way to make sure we can never get a glimpse of the original > text. > > NSR -- OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:58:00 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Info-VAX (was Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system) Message-ID: On 08/29/07 15:22, Michael Unger wrote: > On 2007-08-29 20:13, "Tom Linden" wrote: > >> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads >> by >> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that? > > I don't know Opera -- but there is *no* "References:" header at all in > that posting which made its way through Info-VAX. Actually, there is. The Info-VAX maintainer fixed it a couple of weeks ago. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:52:59 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: > John, > As the guy responsible for the Pascal compiler and because playing with > Pascal compilers is how I spend my freetime :-) how about answering a > quick question for me. > > How does the PACKED effect all of this alignment stuff? Does the > Pascal compiler take care of alignment? And, does using PACKED have > any adverse effect on all this? > > bill > > PACKED tells Pascal to squish types even tighter. So BOOLEANs are 1-bit, subranges, enumerated types, sets, etc. take exactly the number of bits needed. [We can have the tangent thread of exactly how many bits are need to represent 1..1 for instance - it would related back to the undefined state discussion we had last week or so. Hint: 0. However the compiler actually would allocate 1 bit since we didn't want to really confuse things - plus nobody writes 1..1 anyway]. So something like: type pr = packed record f1 : boolean; f2 : 0..65535; end; f1 is one bit big and starts at the beginning of the record. f2 is 16-bits big and is 1-bit from the beginning (allocated immediately after f1). In PACKED records, fields 32-bits or smaller are shoved right next to the prior field (integers, reals, other arrays/records). Larger than 32-bits are bumped to the next byte-boundary. Like the previous replies, since the compiler knows that fields are very unaligned (and in some cases not even on byte-boundaries anymore), it will require lots of instructions to fetch,increment,store the word subrange field for instance. However, no alignment faults should occur. Pascal's /SHOW=STRUCTURE_LAYOUT and /USAGE=PERFORMANCE can show lots of stuff. Also, see Appendix A.2, "Storage Allocation" in the Pascal RM. $ pascal/list/show=(struct)/usage=perform x f1 : boolean; ..........^ %PASCAL-I-COMNOTSIZ, Component is not optimally sized at line number 4 in file HIYALL$:[REAGAN]X.PAS;8 f2 : 0..65535; ..........^ %PASCAL-I-COMNOTALNSIZ, Component is not optimally aligned and sized at line number 5 in file HIYALL$:[REAGAN]X.PAS;8 %PASCAL-S-ENDDIAGS, PASCAL completed with 2 diagnostics Structure Layout Listing 29-AUG-2007 13:45:06 HP Pascal Alpha V6.0-115 Page 2 29-AUG-2007 13:42:03 HIYALL$:[REAGAN]X.PAS;8 Comments Offset Size ----------- --------------- --------------- 3 Bytes PR {In PROGRAM FOO} = PACKED RECORD Size 0 Bytes 1 Bit F1 : BOOLEAN Align; Size 1 Bit 2 Bytes F2 : 0..65535 END -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: 29 Aug 2007 18:09:06 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: <5jlr22F7ob3U1@mid.individual.net> In article , John Reagan writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> John, >> As the guy responsible for the Pascal compiler and because playing with >> Pascal compilers is how I spend my freetime :-) how about answering a >> quick question for me. >> >> How does the PACKED effect all of this alignment stuff? Does the >> Pascal compiler take care of alignment? And, does using PACKED have >> any adverse effect on all this? >> > > PACKED tells Pascal to squish types even tighter. So BOOLEANs are > 1-bit, subranges, enumerated types, sets, etc. take exactly the number > of bits needed. > <....> Thank you very much. Any day I learn something new is a good day. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:46:37 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: On 08/29/07 12:21, Tom Linden wrote: > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:17:22 -0700, Ron Johnson > wrote: > >> On 08/29/07 09:41, Tom Linden wrote: >>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 07:19:41 -0700, John Reagan >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Ron Johnson wrote: >>>>> On 08/26/07 18:48, FrankS wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 26, 5:32 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Wouldn't alignment faults be more of a problem in Macro than in, >>>>>>> say, COBOL? >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a COBOL alignment fault ... >>>>>> >>>>>> 01 TOP-LEVEL. >>>>>> 03 DATA-ITEM-1 PIC X(1). >>>>>> 03 DATA-ITEM-2 PIC S9(9) COMP. >>>>>> >>>>>> Data-Item-2 is not on a natural boundary. This likely happens in >>>>>> lots >>>>>> and lots of places in many COBOL programs. I'm sure there's a ton of >>>>>> similar problems in programs I and many others have written over the >>>>>> years. >>>>> You'd think that something as complex as a COBOL compiler would >>>>> already align TOP-LEVEL. >>>>> >>>> >>>> The COBOL compiler aligns 01 and 77 level items on quadword boundaries >>>> by default. It is only the alignment/padding of other level items >>>> that defaults to VAX byte alignment. You can ask for more alignment >>>> and padding with the /ALIGNMENT qualifier. >>>> >>> The same is true for PL/I. Of course, you probably don't want to change >>> existing >>> code that does record I/O >> >> Hmmm. So it does a single "structure copy" instead of knowing that >> the fields are (not-byte)-aligned and thus moving the fields >> individually into a temp buffer before doing record IO. >> > Maybe I am not understanding you, but if the shape is the same in memory as > external storage why would you need a temporary? If the compiler pads/aligns the members of the structure. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:18:17 -0000 From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: <1188415097.343010.36170@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 10:08 am, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 08/29/07 07:12, Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: >> Run-Length Encoding. Replaces a repeated character (25 spaces, for > example, with a repeat-count and the target character). Ah, yes. That's what RMS does, and the only thing RMS does, for what it calls adta_record_compression. It divides records into chunks. Each chunk has a 16 bit length. The last byte is a repeat count for the last character. So there is a 3 byte overhead, and the max repeat is 255 chars. The scan algortime just looks for 16 bits (aligned?) matching the next 16 and on match looks backward a few bytes and of course forward. So it might fail to trigger on some series of 6 equal bytes. Just as well? > It means that you transfer less data from host to disk, store less > data on disk, read less data from disk and transfer less from disk > to host. Uses a *slight* amount of CPU to expand the record. Agreed. > Can be a *BIG* win in insert-once/no-update situations, but a BIG > LOSER when you update a blank field with non-repeating data. Ayup! Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:49:49 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: On 08/29/07 14:18, Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > On Aug 29, 10:08 am, Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 08/29/07 07:12, Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: >>> Run-Length Encoding. Replaces a repeated character (25 spaces, for >> example, with a repeat-count and the target character). > > Ah, yes. That's what RMS does, and the only thing RMS does, for what > it calls adta_record_compression. It divides records into chunks. Each > chunk has a 16 bit length. The last byte is a repeat count for the > last character. > So there is a 3 byte overhead, and the max repeat is 255 chars. > The scan algortime just looks for 16 bits (aligned?) matching the next > 16 and on match looks backward a few bytes and of course forward. > So it might fail to trigger on some series of 6 equal bytes. Just as > well? >> >> It means that you transfer less data from host to disk, store less >> data on disk, read less data from disk and transfer less from disk >> to host. Uses a *slight* amount of CPU to expand the record. > > Agreed. > >> Can be a *BIG* win in insert-once/no-update situations, but a BIG >> LOSER when you update a blank field with non-repeating data. > > Ayup! If RMS and Rdb don't use the exact same code, I'll be stunned. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:07:27 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: <3mkBi.7294$ZA.3967@newsb.telia.net> Ron Johnson wrote: > If RMS and Rdb don't use the exact same code, I'll be stunned. > The same code for *what* ? Rdb does a hell of a lot more then RMS... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:53:38 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: On 08/29/07 15:07, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: > >> If RMS and Rdb don't use the exact same code, I'll be stunned. >> > > The same code for *what* ? RLE-compressing duplicate data in fields. > Rdb does a hell of a lot more then RMS... You're confusing me with Paul Raulerson. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:18:19 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:46:37 -0700, Ron Johnson = = wrote: > On 08/29/07 12:21, Tom Linden wrote: >> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:17:22 -0700, Ron Johnson >> wrote: >> >>> On 08/29/07 09:41, Tom Linden wrote: >>>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 07:19:41 -0700, John Reagan >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ron Johnson wrote: >>>>>> On 08/26/07 18:48, FrankS wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 26, 5:32 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wouldn't alignment faults be more of a problem in Macro than in= , >>>>>>>> say, COBOL? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a COBOL alignment fault ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 01 TOP-LEVEL. >>>>>>> 03 DATA-ITEM-1 PIC X(1). >>>>>>> 03 DATA-ITEM-2 PIC S9(9) COMP. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Data-Item-2 is not on a natural boundary. This likely happens i= n >>>>>>> lots >>>>>>> and lots of places in many COBOL programs. I'm sure there's a t= on = >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> similar problems in programs I and many others have written over= = >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> years. >>>>>> You'd think that something as complex as a COBOL compiler would= >>>>>> already align TOP-LEVEL. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The COBOL compiler aligns 01 and 77 level items on quadword = >>>>> boundaries >>>>> by default. It is only the alignment/padding of other level items= >>>>> that defaults to VAX byte alignment. You can ask for more alignme= nt >>>>> and padding with the /ALIGNMENT qualifier. >>>>> >>>> The same is true for PL/I. Of course, you probably don't want to = >>>> change >>>> existing >>>> code that does record I/O >>> >>> Hmmm. So it does a single "structure copy" instead of knowing that >>> the fields are (not-byte)-aligned and thus moving the fields >>> individually into a temp buffer before doing record IO. >>> >> Maybe I am not understanding you, but if the shape is the same in = >> memory as >> external storage why would you need a temporary? > > If the compiler pads/aligns the members of the structure. > You get to choose PLI /ALIGN[=3Doption] /NOALIGN (D) Controls alignment of data within structures and aligned bi= t strings. If you specify /ALIGN on a VAX system, data is aligned o= n the natural byte boundary of the specified data type. If yo= u specify /NOALIGN, the default, data is aligned on the nex= t available byte boundary. (OpenVMS AXP only) /[NO]ALIGN[=3D(PACKED|NATURAL)] If you specify /ALIGN=3DNATURAL, data is aligned on the natural b= yte boundary of the specified data type. If you specify /ALIGN=3DPACK= ED, data is aligned on the next available byte boundary. On OpenVM= S AXP, /ALIGN=3DPACKED forces data to be aligned on the next availa= ble byte boundary. Data structures will be aligned in the same manne= r as on a OpenVMS VAX System. Requesting /DATA=3DVAX will ca= use /ALIGN=3DPACKED to be selected. Specifying /ALIGN with no option = is equivalent to specifying /ALIGN=3DNATURAL. -- = PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:27:04 -0700 From: FrankS Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: <1188433624.000705.206260@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 4:53 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: > > Rdb does a hell of a lot more then RMS... > > You're confusing me with Paul Raulerson. ROTFLOLAP (Rolling on the floor laughing out loud and peeing). That was funny. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:41:43 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: <00b301c7ea9e$89c01df0$9d4059d0$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Johnson [mailto:ron.l.johnson@cox.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 3:54 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question >=20 > On 08/29/07 15:07, Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: > > Ron Johnson wrote: > > > >> If RMS and Rdb don't use the exact same code, I'll be stunned. > >> > > > > The same code for *what* ? >=20 > RLE-compressing duplicate data in fields. >=20 > > Rdb does a hell of a lot more then RMS... >=20 > You're confusing me with Paul Raulerson. >=20 Not me Ron - your on your own. -Paul > -- > Ron Johnson, Jr. > Jefferson LA USA >=20 > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:19:39 -0000 From: "dpm_google@myths.com" Subject: Re: Lock problem with SAMBA/NMBD Message-ID: <1188415179.056037.40570@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com> It might not be of any use to you, but there's a utility you can download and build to display lock information in a more coherent format. http://www.myths.com/~dpm/www/showlocks.c You'll need CMKRNL to see all of them, of course. ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:20:59 -0000 From: "dpm_google@myths.com" Subject: Re: Lock problem with SAMBA/NMBD Message-ID: <1188415259.442643.63070@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Sorry, that should be http://www.myths.com/~dpm/vms/showlocks.c ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:16:19 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Patent system a farce when it comes to software Message-ID: http://informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201802746 Amazon, Google, Yahoo, And Others Sued For Automating Their E-mail The companies are accused of violating a patent on automatic message routing held by Polaris IP. The patent has a long history in litigation, but all the cases have been settled out of court. By Thomas Claburn InformationWeek August 28, 2007 04:40 PM Six major Internet companies have been sued for using computers to process their e-mail. AOL, Amazon, Borders, Google, IAC, and Yahoo stand accused of violating a patent on automatic message routing held by Texas-based Polaris IP. Attorneys representing Polaris IP filed a claim of patent infringement on Monday in U.S. District Court of the Eastern District of Texas in Marshall, Texas. The lawsuit charges the companies with implementing systems that "comprise interpreting electronic messages with rule base and case base knowledge engines" as described in the patent held by the plaintiff, "Automatic message interpretation and routing system." The lawsuit seeks an injunction against continued infringement. If granted -- a remote prospect at best -- the injunction would have a significant impact on the defending companies. A more likely scenario appears to be a payday for the plaintiff. "It looks like Polaris IP is in the business of licensing patent rights and has no desire to enforce its requested injunction," said Dennis Crouch, associate professor of law at University of Missouri School of Law and the author of the law blog Patently-O, in an e-mail. "I expect that Polaris IP will be willing to settle these cases for what it believes is a reasonable six- or seven-digit figure." Crouch pointed out that the message routing patent at issue has been involved in litigation many times. "There are no published opinions associated with these cases and they have all been settled," he said. Polaris IP, Crouch observed, "appears to be part of a web of IP-related companies associated with attorney David Pridham." These companies include Orion IP, Constellation IP, IP Navigation Group, Cushion Technologies, CT IP Holdings, Triton, Circinus IP, and Firepond. Pridham did not respond to a request for comment. The method and system detailed in the patent describes a way "for automatically interpreting an electronic message including the steps of (a) receiving an electronic message from a source; (b) interpreting the electronic message using a rule base and case base knowledge engine; and (c) retrieving one or more predetermined responses corresponding to the interpretation of the electronic message from a repository for automatic delivery to the source." The Eastern District of Texas has become a favored venue for filing patent lawsuits. Polaris IP has launched three other patent cases there in the past two years against numerous technology companies, including Art Technology Group, Oracle, and Sirius Satellite Radio. All three of these cases have involved the same patent, which has a long legal history. "The Eastern District of Texas has seen a flood of patent litigation in recent years based on its reputation as a patent-friendly court," said Crouch. "Interestingly, that reputation is rapidly changing as the court invalidates more patents." Attorneys representing Polaris IP did not return calls seeking comment. Google did not respond to a request for comment. ----- I probably have some 'prior art' from VMS Mail in the mid-80's hanging around on 9-track that I could get Google et. al. to buy from me to defend this case. Come to think of it, the legal system in Texas is a farce too. -- OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base. begin 666 mag-glass_10x10.gif M1TE&.#EA"@`*`*(``$"+0.?PY[_8OX"R@ !D`*#%H/___P```"'Y! `````` M+ `````*``H```,F: (T8E"1$ IX$ 18RHB3T15$-(Q="2TC443*0+@-#,^? '#>'Z3B0`.P`` ` end ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:35:25 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Message-ID: <871de$46d61eee$cef8887a$27579@TEKSAVVY.COM> Main, Kerry wrote: > All, > > The following article may be of interest: (August 28, 2007) > http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT082807020032&p=1 Mr Main, What will differentiate a 64 bit 8086 plugged into a CSI interface from a 64 bit IA64 also plugged into a CSI interface ? If both have access to the same type of memory, cache etc, then won't the industry standard architecture that has competition from AMD end up being far superior than some proprietary IA64 thing that requires its own proprietary funky compilers due to ist EPIC nature ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:57:44 -0700 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188417464.868176.206600@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Hi: I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s message if the day is the third sunday in the month. Can you help me ? Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:04:19 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: On 08/29/07 14:57, apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote: > Hi: > I´m looking for a command procedure to send a operator´s message > if the day is the third sunday in the month. > Can you help me ? I think I'd create an indexed (or flat, if that's easier for you) file with columns like DATE WEEK-OF-YEAR WEEK-OF-MONTH Once per Sunday, search the file for the current date, and if that record's WEEK-OF-MONTH .EQ. 3 then Boob's Your Uncle. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:26:54 -0700 From: nitromh@gmail.com Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188422814.136251.180030@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 12:57 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s message > if the day is the third sunday in the month. Basic idea (use account with OPER priv): $ if F$CVTIME(,,"weekday") .eqs. "Sunday" $ then $ day =3D F$CVTIME(,,"day") $ if day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 then reply/username=3Dsystem "3rd sunday" $ endif $ submit /after=3Dtomorrow 'F$ENVIRONMENT("procedure") James ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:37:26 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: On 08/29/07 16:26, nitromh@gmail.com wrote: > On Aug 29, 12:57 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: >> I´m looking for a command procedure to send a operator´s message >> if the day is the third sunday in the month. > > Basic idea (use account with OPER priv): > > $ if F$CVTIME(,,"weekday") .eqs. "Sunday" > $ then > $ day = F$CVTIME(,,"day") > $ if day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 then reply/username=system "3rd > sunday" > $ endif > $ submit /after=tomorrow 'F$ENVIRONMENT("procedure") Does "week" start on the first day of the month, or ... Never mind. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:47:02 -0700 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188427622.398539.57180@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On 29 ago, 19:37, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 08/29/07 16:26, nitr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Aug 29, 12:57 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > >> I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s message > >> if the day is the third sunday in the month. > > > Basic idea (use account with OPER priv): > > > $ if F$CVTIME(,,"weekday") .eqs. "Sunday" > > $ then > > $ day =3D F$CVTIME(,,"day") > > $ if day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 then reply/username=3Dsystem "3rd > > sunday" > > $ endif > > $ submit /after=3Dtomorrow 'F$ENVIRONMENT("procedure") > > Does "week" start on the first day of the month, or ... > > Never mind. > > -- > Ron Johnson, Jr. > Jefferson LA USA > > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! Maybe I need change the day from 22 to 23... $ set nover $ hour=3D"''F$EXTRACT(12,2, F$TIME())'" $ day=3DF$CVTIME(,,"day") $ week=3DF$CVTIME(,,"weekday") $ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. "14") .and. (day .lt. "23") .and. (hour .eq. "12")) then goto dispara $exit $dispara: $ mail/subj=3D" >>> Restarte o Server <<< " sys $login:restart_server.txt "smtp%""schwarzt@aaaaaaa.com.br""" $exit Thanks a lot for your examples ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:33:18 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188430398.401567.111110@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 5:47 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > > On 08/29/07 16:26, nitr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Aug 29, 12:57 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > > >> I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s message > > >> if the day is the third sunday in the month. > > > > Basic idea (use account with OPER priv): > > > > $ if F$CVTIME(,,"weekday") .eqs. "Sunday" > > > $ then > > > $ day =3D F$CVTIME(,,"day") > > > $ if day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 then reply/username=3Dsystem "3rd > > > sunday" > > > $ endif > > > $ submit /after=3Dtomorrow 'F$ENVIRONMENT("procedure") > > Maybe I need change the day from 22 to 23... If the 1st is a Monday, the 3rd Sunday will be the 21st. If the 1st is Sunday, the 3rd Sunday will be the 15th and 4th Sunday will be the 22nd so if you use .lt.23, you'll include the 4th Sunday in those months. > > $ set nover > $ hour=3D"''F$EXTRACT(12,2, F$TIME())'" > $ day=3DF$CVTIME(,,"day") > $ week=3DF$CVTIME(,,"weekday") > $ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. "14") .and. (day .lt. > "23") .and. (hour .eq. "12")) then goto dispara You don't want " " around numbers unless you first convert them to a string, and then you need to use .gts. and .lts. if you're comparing strings. > $exit > $dispara: > $ mail/subj=3D" >>> Restarte o Server <<< " sys > $login:restart_server.txt "smtp%""schwa...@aaaaaaa.com.br""" > $exit > > Thanks a lot for your examples ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:09:23 -0700 From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188432563.974213.119600@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 3:57 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi: > I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s message > if the day is the third sunday in the month. > Can you help me ? > Thank you. I would identify the day of week associated with the 1st of the month; adjust for the day of the week, and then add 14 to get the third Sunday. You want to look at the various options for the F$CVTIME lexical function (see the HELP text) - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:37:20 -0700 From: FrankS Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188434240.376921.213460@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 6:47 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > On 29 ago, 19:37, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > On 08/29/07 16:26, nitr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Aug 29, 12:57 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > > >> I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s message > > >> if the day is the third sunday in the month. > > > > Basic idea (use account with OPER priv): > > > > $ if F$CVTIME(,,"weekday") .eqs. "Sunday" > > > $ then > > > $ day =3D F$CVTIME(,,"day") > > > $ if day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 then reply/username=3Dsystem "3rd > > > sunday" > > > $ endif > > > $ submit /after=3Dtomorrow 'F$ENVIRONMENT("procedure") > > > Does "week" start on the first day of the month, or ... > > > Never mind. > > > -- > > Ron Johnson, Jr. > > Jefferson LA USA > > > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! > > Maybe I need change the day from 22 to 23... > > $ set nover > $ hour=3D"''F$EXTRACT(12,2, F$TIME())'" > $ day=3DF$CVTIME(,,"day") > $ week=3DF$CVTIME(,,"weekday") > $ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. "14") .and. (day .lt. > "23") .and. (hour .eq. "12")) then goto dispara > $exit > $dispara: > $ mail/subj=3D" >>> Restarte o Server <<< " sys > $login:restart_server.txt "smtp%""schwa...@aaaaaaa.com.br""" > $exit > > Thanks a lot for your examples !- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - As was pointed out, you must use .GT. 14 and .LT. 22 Why are you including (HOUR .EQ. 12) ??? If you schedule the batch job to submit itself every morning then it will send the message each morning. If you need this to happen only during the noon hour then submit the job to run at noon. I would be concerned that by including (HOUR .EQ. 12) you might end up off schedule and not get the message being sent even though the day is the third Sunday. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:58:26 -0000 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188435506.117840.136780@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On 29 ago, 21:37, FrankS wrote: > On Aug 29, 6:47 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On 29 ago, 19:37, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > > On 08/29/07 16:26, nitr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On Aug 29, 12:57 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > > > >> I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s messa= ge > > > >> if the day is the third sunday in the month. > > > > > Basic idea (use account with OPER priv): > > > > > $ if F$CVTIME(,,"weekday") .eqs. "Sunday" > > > > $ then > > > > $ day =3D F$CVTIME(,,"day") > > > > $ if day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 then reply/username=3Dsystem "= 3rd > > > > sunday" > > > > $ endif > > > > $ submit /after=3Dtomorrow 'F$ENVIRONMENT("procedure") > > > > Does "week" start on the first day of the month, or ... > > > > Never mind. > > > > -- > > > Ron Johnson, Jr. > > > Jefferson LA USA > > > > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > > > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! > > > Maybe I need change the day from 22 to 23... > > > $ set nover > > $ hour=3D"''F$EXTRACT(12,2, F$TIME())'" > > $ day=3DF$CVTIME(,,"day") > > $ week=3DF$CVTIME(,,"weekday") > > $ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. "14") .and. (day .lt. > > "23") .and. (hour .eq. "12")) then goto dispara > > $exit > > $dispara: > > $ mail/subj=3D" >>> Restarte o Server <<< " sys > > $login:restart_server.txt "smtp%""schwa...@aaaaaaa.com.br""" > > $exit > > > Thanks a lot for your examples !- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > As was pointed out, you must use .GT. 14 and .LT. 22 > > Why are you including (HOUR .EQ. 12) ??? > > If you schedule the batch job to submit itself every morning then it > will send the message each morning. If you need this to happen only > during the noon hour then submit the job to run at noon. > > I would be concerned that by including (HOUR .EQ. 12) you might end up > off schedule and not get the message being sent even though the day is > the third Sunday.- Ocultar texto entre aspas - > > - Mostrar texto entre aspas - In reality, this procedure will stay in a batch queue, running each 5 minutes. If day=3DSunday, 3rd Sunday, hour=3D12 than send me an e-mail. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:18:52 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188436732.435832.308690@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 7:58 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > On 29 ago, 21:37, FrankS wrote: > > > On Aug 29, 6:47 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On 29 ago, 19:37, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > > > On 08/29/07 16:26, nitr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > On Aug 29, 12:57 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > >> I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s mes= sage > > > > >> if the day is the third sunday in the month. > > > > > > Basic idea (use account with OPER priv): > > > > > > $ if F$CVTIME(,,"weekday") .eqs. "Sunday" > > > > > $ then > > > > > $ day =3D F$CVTIME(,,"day") > > > > > $ if day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 then reply/username=3Dsystem= "3rd > > > > > sunday" > > > > > $ endif > > > > > $ submit /after=3Dtomorrow 'F$ENVIRONMENT("procedure") > > > > > Does "week" start on the first day of the month, or ... > > > > > Never mind. > > > > > -- > > > > Ron Johnson, Jr. > > > > Jefferson LA USA > > > > > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > > > > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! > > > > Maybe I need change the day from 22 to 23... > > > > $ set nover > > > $ hour=3D"''F$EXTRACT(12,2, F$TIME())'" > > > $ day=3DF$CVTIME(,,"day") > > > $ week=3DF$CVTIME(,,"weekday") > > > $ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. "14") .and. (day .lt. > > > "23") .and. (hour .eq. "12")) then goto dispara > > > $exit > > > $dispara: > > > $ mail/subj=3D" >>> Restarte o Server <<< " sys > > > $login:restart_server.txt "smtp%""schwa...@aaaaaaa.com.br""" > > > $exit > > > > Thanks a lot for your examples !- Hide quoted text - > > > As was pointed out, you must use .GT. 14 and .LT. 22 > > > Why are you including (HOUR .EQ. 12) ??? > > > If you schedule the batch job to submit itself every morning then it > > will send the message each morning. If you need this to happen only > > during the noon hour then submit the job to run at noon. > > > I would be concerned that by including (HOUR .EQ. 12) you might end up > > off schedule and not get the message being sent even though the day is > > the third Sunday.- Ocultar texto entre aspas - > > > - Mostrar texto entre aspas - > > In reality, this procedure will stay in a batch queue, running each 5 > minutes. > If day=3DSunday, 3rd Sunday, hour=3D12 than send me an e-mail. > Thank you. I wondered about the (hour .eq. 12) too, but figured maybe there was more to it than what was presented. You realize that if it checks every 5 minutes, the hour will be 12 for probably 11 of the times you check? If we're going to get picky without changing the "if" logic, though, I'd lose the goto and do: $ if week .eqs. "Sunday" .and. day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 .and. hour .eq. 12 $ then $ mail/subj=3D" >>> Restarte o Server <<< " sys $ login:restart_server.txt "smtp%""schwa...@aaaaaaa.com.br""" $ endif $exit But, I'm not going to get picky about other folks coding techniques given some of the spaghetti I've written:-) There are of course other ways to compute the nth xday of the month, and I'm sure we'll see some of them. You could compute the date-time you want to do the "restart", check and execute when you've reached or gone past that time, and compute the next date-time within that conditional code stream. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:24:18 -0000 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188437058.314136.41760@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> On 29 ago, 22:18, Doug Phillips wrote: > On Aug 29, 7:58 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On 29 ago, 21:37, FrankS wrote: > > > > On Aug 29, 6:47 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On 29 ago, 19:37, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > > > > On 08/29/07 16:26, nitr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Aug 29, 12:57 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > >> I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s m= essage > > > > > >> if the day is the third sunday in the month. > > > > > > > Basic idea (use account with OPER priv): > > > > > > > $ if F$CVTIME(,,"weekday") .eqs. "Sunday" > > > > > > $ then > > > > > > $ day =3D F$CVTIME(,,"day") > > > > > > $ if day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 then reply/username=3Dsyst= em "3rd > > > > > > sunday" > > > > > > $ endif > > > > > > $ submit /after=3Dtomorrow 'F$ENVIRONMENT("procedure") > > > > > > Does "week" start on the first day of the month, or ... > > > > > > Never mind. > > > > > > -- > > > > > Ron Johnson, Jr. > > > > > Jefferson LA USA > > > > > > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > > > > > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! > > > > > Maybe I need change the day from 22 to 23... > > > > > $ set nover > > > > $ hour=3D"''F$EXTRACT(12,2, F$TIME())'" > > > > $ day=3DF$CVTIME(,,"day") > > > > $ week=3DF$CVTIME(,,"weekday") > > > > $ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. "14") .and. (day .lt. > > > > "23") .and. (hour .eq. "12")) then goto dispara > > > > $exit > > > > $dispara: > > > > $ mail/subj=3D" >>> Restarte o Server <<< " sys > > > > $login:restart_server.txt "smtp%""schwa...@aaaaaaa.com.br""" > > > > $exit > > > > > Thanks a lot for your examples !- Hide quoted text - > > > > As was pointed out, you must use .GT. 14 and .LT. 22 > > > > Why are you including (HOUR .EQ. 12) ??? > > > > If you schedule the batch job to submit itself every morning then it > > > will send the message each morning. If you need this to happen only > > > during the noon hour then submit the job to run at noon. > > > > I would be concerned that by including (HOUR .EQ. 12) you might end up > > > off schedule and not get the message being sent even though the day is > > > the third Sunday.- Ocultar texto entre aspas - > > > > - Mostrar texto entre aspas - > > > In reality, this procedure will stay in a batch queue, running each 5 > > minutes. > > If day=3DSunday, 3rd Sunday, hour=3D12 than send me an e-mail. > > Thank you. > > I wondered about the (hour .eq. 12) too, but figured maybe there was > more to it than what was presented. You realize that if it checks > every 5 minutes, the hour will be 12 for probably 11 of the times you > check? > > If we're going to get picky without changing the "if" logic, though, > I'd lose the goto and do: > > $ if week .eqs. "Sunday" .and. day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 .and. > hour .eq. 12 > $ then > $ mail/subj=3D" >>> Restarte o Server <<< " sys > $ login:restart_server.txt "smtp%""schwa...@aaaaaaa.com.br""" > $ endif > $exit > > But, I'm not going to get picky about other folks coding techniques > given some of the spaghetti I've written:-) > > There are of course other ways to compute the nth xday of the month, > and I'm sure we'll see some of them. > > You could compute the date-time you want to do the "restart", check > and execute when you've reached or gone past that time, and compute > the next date-time within that conditional code stream.- Ocultar texto en= tre aspas - > > - Mostrar texto entre aspas - I made this change: $ hour=3D"''F$EXTRACT(12,4, F$TIME())'" $ day=3DF$CVTIME(,,"day") $ week=3DF$CVTIME(,,"weekday") $ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. 14) .and. (day .lt. 22) .and. (hour .eq. "12:0")) then goto dispara and I=B4ll receive only 2 alerts (maybe only 1) Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 04:53:19 GMT From: "dave weatherall" Subject: Re: What'd you do in the war Grand-dad? (was Re: Itanium Port Question) Message-ID: <5jn0pvFcmkjU1@mid.individual.net> P. Sture wrote: > In article , > "Richard Maher" wrote: > > > Hi Paul, > > > > > Maybe there are a lot of instances of this out there, but I was > > > taught to word align integers back in VAX COBOL days. > > > > Oh really? Disk space was cheap back then was it? > > > > Eh? What are you wittering on about Dickie? > > Consider a primary key of 17 bytes. Belongs at the beginning of an > RMS record in my book. Find another variable that's only one byte > long and it belongs next. > > Then you define yer integers. I did say word aligned, not longword or > quadword aligned. > > > "Yes, me and Gungadin used to fill our disks with padding bytes; > > don't fire till you see the whites of their eyes; esprit de cour > > and all that." > > Righty-ho, I'll tell Carruthers and Farqhuart. They'll hold the > blighters off. > > PS. Has anyone here actually come across anyone actually named > Carruthers or Farqhuart? I certainly haven't. Yes Derek C., from Eire And Helen F. from Scotland. Both colleagues at the same job but not concurrently. -- Cheers - Dave ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.475 ************************