INFO-VAX Wed, 12 Sep 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 498 Contents: Re: -SYSTEM-F-WRITLCK, write lock error Alphaserver DS20 for sale - Italy Re: Alphaserver DS20 for sale - Italy Re: Alphaserver DS20 for sale - Italy Re: Copy/record to DVD's Re: DECServer 700 help Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Re: How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Re: How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Re: How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Re: How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Re: How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Re: Is this a bug or expected behaviour in C99? Re: Is this a bug or expected behaviour in C99? Re: Is this a bug or expected behaviour in C99? Re: Product Install, UNDO and recovery data (again!) Re: VMS License Plates Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:19:57 +0200 From: Albrecht Schlosser Subject: Re: -SYSTEM-F-WRITLCK, write lock error Message-ID: Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote: > In article <...>, Albrecht Schlosser <...> writes: >> The real problem is that PCSI ($ PRODUCT ...) seems to open the >> ..PCSI file on the DVD read/write, or really tries to write to the >> source .PCSI file! Hence my question: "Is this a PCSI bug?" > > Think again. If PCSI does it this way, then how to do a VMS install? > (eg. OpenVMS Alpha from the VMS CD) Why think, about what? ;-) It's fine, if it works for OpenVMS installations, and sure you're right, but here it doesn't work, as it was shown. From the OP: %PCSI-E-WRITEERR, error writing DONKEY$DQA0:[FORT0811.KIT]HP-I64VMS-FORTRAN-V080 1-2-1.PCSI;1 -SYSTEM-F-WRITLCK, write lock error %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failed %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error condition Albrecht ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:03:51 -0000 From: Vanjkos Subject: Alphaserver DS20 for sale - Italy Message-ID: <1189598631.262758.189740@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> I resume this my old post, it is still valid if anyone wants to give a home to this nice machine! ;-) ------------- Hi guys, I am from Italy, iI decided to sell some equipment i don't need anymore.I'll write down a brief description,so if you are going to need any particular information on a specific part,or any pictures, please don't hesitate to ask, I'll be glad to mail them to you! I'm selling this Compaq's Alphaserver DS20 equipped with: - Single Digital CPU board,part number 54-24758-05.C06,(i'm not sure if it's 500 or 550MHz), but for sure it has 4MB onboard cache L2; -Digital Equipment motherboard P/N 54-24756-02, S/N AY94900836, with 6 64bit PCI slots; -Digital SCSI Ethernet PCI controller (on PCI bus) P/N KZPCM-DX Rev. A.02 , S/N 5S05103949; -16x 100MHz synchronous ECC Registered 200pin ram memory modules, of which: 9 are 128MB size; 7 are 256MB size, for a total of 2.8GB ram memory. -4x 18.2 GB 10.000rpm ultra wide SCSI hot swappable hard drives in raid configuration; -Pre-installed VMS operating system version 7.2.I must find them, but i have also the original licenses; -720W power supply. -SCSI DAT backup unit(also a few new cartridges), and SCSI cd-rom drive. If anyone is interested, i could mount a second processor board and maybe try to find 256MB ram memory modules to swap with those of 128MB. For this configuration i'd ask 700 euro,but I am open to any discussion about the price, I also know the shipping is pretty expensive for this monster of more than 40 kilograms! Best regards, Mihic Vanja, Modena, Italy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 06:29:34 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Alphaserver DS20 for sale - Italy Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 05:03:51 -0700, Vanjkos wrote: > -Pre-installed VMS operating system version 7.2.I must find them, but > i > have also the original licenses; If you can't find them, you can get replacements with the serial number The following is listed as contact for Europe. John Heneghan Telephone: +353 (0) 91 754630 Email:licensing.emea@hp.com -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:25:21 -0700 From: Vanjkos Subject: Re: Alphaserver DS20 for sale - Italy Message-ID: <1189610721.788530.131040@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> > > If you can't find them, you can get replacements with the serial number > > The following is listed as contact for Europe. > John Heneghan > Telephone: +353 (0) 91 754630 > Email:licensing.e...@hp.com > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com Thanks Tom, i didn't know this! Great! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:11:19 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Copy/record to DVD's Message-ID: <1189606279.804002.121860@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On 11 Sep, 08:39, vax...@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser- Hofmann) wrote: > In article <+UEyOWJK5...@eisner.encompasserve.org>, f...@encompasserve.org > > > > > > (Sharon) writes: > >I'm setting up a comfile that burns historical data to DVD on a customer's > >>sparkling new Integrity system. I don't know how much data they'll end > >up > >putting on each disk, but I'm pretty sure it will never be more than the > >4.7Gb > >stated on the DVD's I was testing with. I wrote the comfile to size the > >container disk at the (current) max DVD size. When I tested it, I think > >it ran > >out of room. Here is the error I got: > > >%CDDVD-I-SKEY, Unit sense key 05 > >-CDDVD-I-SKEYILLREQ, illegal request sense key > >%CDDVD-I-SKEYASCASCQ, SKey: 05, ASC: 21, ASCQ: 00 > >%CDDVD-I-ASC2100, logical block address out of range error detected > >%CDDVD-E-WRTERR, disk write or disk full error; unable to complete write > >-CDDVD-W-BADADD, bad write address > >Synchronizing with output device cache > >Closing the open track > >Operation permitted 480 seconds for completion > >Closing the open session > >Operation permitted 480 seconds for completion > >Unable to complete processing > >%CDDVD-W-BADADD, bad write address > > >First question: is this really saying it ran out of room on the disk? > >It's a > >little obscured by complaints about "sense key". > > >Second question, what is the largest container file I can burn to DVD? I > >>obviously miscalculated it. Here is my comfile: > > >$ SET NOON > >$ SAY :== WRITE SYS$OUTPUT > >$ SAY "Beginning HDMP DVD Burn." > >$! > >$LOADNEWCD: > >$ ON CONTROL_Y THEN GOTO EXIT > >$ SAY "" > >$ SAY "Please load a NEW blank DVD in the drive on > >''f$getsyi("nodename")'..." > >$ INQUIRE DUMMY "Press Enter to continue. Control/Y to exit" > >$! > >$REUSE_DVD_CONTAINER: > >$ IF F$GETDVI("$3$LDA1:","EXISTS") > >$ THEN > >$ DISMOUNT $3$LDA1: > >$ LD DISCONNECT $3$LDA1: > >$ ENDIF > >$ SAY "Preparing files to copy." > >$ LD CREATE/SIZE=10049000 $1$DGA5:[HDMP]HDMP_CONTAINER.DSK > >$ LD CONNECT $1$DGA5:[HDMP]HDMP_CONTAINER.DSK LDA1 > >$ INITIALIZE $3$LDA1: HDMPDVD > >$ MOUNT $3$LDA1: HDMPDVD > >$! > >$COPY_FILES_TO_HDMP_CONTAINER: > >$ SAY "" > >$ SAY "Copying files from source directory to DVD container..." > >(copying files into container file)... > >$! > >$BURN_FILES_TO_DVD: > >$ SAY "" > >$ SAY "Starting to burn DVD..." > >$ MOUNT/OVER=ID $3$DNA0: > >$ COPY/RECORDABLE/FORMAT/VERIFY $3$LDA1: $3$DNA0: > >$ DISMOUNT $3$LDA1: > >$ LD DISCONNECT LDA1 > >$! > >$ EXIT > > > - Sharon > >"Gravity... is a harsh mistress!" > > The capacity of a DVD depends on the medium. > > You'll see different numbers of the same type of media. > > I can write a small program that tells you this number. > I will post the source code if there are enough people > who are interested. > > regards > Eberhard- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Interest here too. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:14:28 +0200 From: Albrecht Schlosser Subject: Re: DECServer 700 help Message-ID: David J Dachtera wrote: > > The point remains, however, that these are in conflict with the device's port > configuration as indicated by the OP. Sorry, if I insist, but ... no, he said XON, but you said hardware flow control. And it's configured with XON. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Sep 2007 09:20:49 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: In article <1189558411.809336.160500@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > I meant acceleration as in increase in speed. Context, Bob, ... > context. The context was a discussion of physical behaviour and the laws of physics are not context specific. 8-) Physicists have precise definitions for these terms for good reason and when I see them in a dicussion of physical behaviour I use those definitions because being unclear in physical science is a direct path to misunderstanding and erroneous conclusions. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:55:41 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: On 09/12/07 09:20, Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , AEF writes: >> I meant acceleration as in increase in speed. Context, Bob, ... >> context. > > The context was a discussion of physical behaviour and the laws > of physics are not context specific. 8-) > > Physicists have precise definitions for these terms for good reason > and when I see them in a dicussion of physical behaviour I use those > definitions because being unclear in physical science is a direct > path to misunderstanding and erroneous conclusions. How dare you be so insensitive to those who want to create their own definitions! Now go take a Definitional Sensitivity class! -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:07:08 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: <1189609628.917891.46720@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Sep 12, 10:20 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <1189558411.809336.160...@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > > > > I meant acceleration as in increase in speed. Context, Bob, ... > > context. > > The context was a discussion of physical behaviour and the laws > of physics are not context specific. 8-) Well, while were being exact, that's "context-specific". > > Physicists have precise definitions for these terms for good reason > and when I see them in a dicussion of physical behaviour I use those > definitions because being unclear in physical science is a direct > path to misunderstanding and erroneous conclusions. Point taken. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:29:23 -0000 From: jmDesktop Subject: How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Message-ID: <1189603763.854330.283540@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Not in code, just from the command line. I created a new user with copy user1 user2 /password=newpassword and, as expected, they have the same uic. I know the first number [first, ?], but not what to put for the second number. How do I get that second number? Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:01:44 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Message-ID: <1189605704.231076.83690@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On Sep 12, 9:29 am, jmDesktop wrote: > Not in code, just from the command line. I created a new user with > copy user1 user2 /password=newpassword and, as expected, they have the > same uic. I know the first number [first, ?], but not what to put for > the second number. How do I get that second number? Thank you. I don't know if this is the best way but it works: $!+ OPS_NEXT_UIC.COM $! $!! PURPOSE: To find the next available UIC. $! $ N = 0 $ _GROUP_NUMBER = P1 $ _BLANK = " " $_LOOP: $! $ N = N + 1 $ _MEMBER_NUMBER = F$FAO("!OW",N) $ UIC_INT = (%O'_MEMBER_NUMBER' + (%X10000 * %O'_GROUP_NUMBER')) $ UIC_NAME = F$IDENTIFIER(UIC_INT,"NUMBER_TO_NAME") $ IF (UIC_NAME .NES. "") THEN $ GOTO _LOOP $ UIC = F$FAO("!%U",UIC_INT) $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "The next available UIC is ''UIC'." $ EXIT AEF ------------------------------ Date: 12 Sep 2007 09:28:07 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Message-ID: In article <1189603763.854330.283540@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, jmDesktop writes: > Not in code, just from the command line. I created a new user with > copy user1 user2 /password=newpassword and, as expected, they have the > same uic. I know the first number [first, ?], but not what to put for > the second number. How do I get that second number? Thank you. > I simply: UAF> show/brief [group,*] then choose an octal number not yet used. Whether or not you need an automated way of doing this depends on how many users you have. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:40:08 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Message-ID: <46E7FA48.5030107@comcast.net> jmDesktop wrote: > Not in code, just from the command line. I created a new user with > copy user1 user2 /password=newpassword and, as expected, they have the > same uic. I know the first number [first, ?], but not what to put for > the second number. How do I get that second number? Thank you. > AFAIK, it can't be done "from the command line". I have a bit of DCL written years ago by Nick DeSmith and tweaked a little by yours truly, that takes the "group" and searches the UAF for the next available user number. It's part of a larger procedure I wrote to create an account without going through all the agony of remembering the necessary steps and qualifiers. It does the whole thing A-Z including creating the user's home directory and creating a sample LOGIN.COM. If requested to do so, I'm willing to dust it off, move it over to my PC and post it to this newsgroup. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:13:48 -0000 From: jmDesktop Subject: Re: How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Message-ID: <1189610028.254780.295230@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Sep 12, 10:28 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <1189603763.854330.283...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, jmDesktop writes: > > > Not in code, just from the command line. I created a new user with > > copy user1 user2 /password=newpassword and, as expected, they have the > > same uic. I know the first number [first, ?], but not what to put for > > the second number. How do I get that second number? Thank you. > > I simply: > > UAF> show/brief [group,*] > > then choose an octal number not yet used. Whether or not you need > an automated way of doing this depends on how many users you have. Thanks everyone. I used the show /brief. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:36:48 +0200 From: "Martin Vorlaender" Subject: Re: How do I get the next UIC in MCR Authorize? Message-ID: AEF wrote: > $!+ OPS_NEXT_UIC.COM > $! > $!! PURPOSE: To find the next available UIC. > $! > $ N =3D 0 > $ _GROUP_NUMBER =3D P1 > $ _BLANK =3D " " > $_LOOP: > $! > $ N =3D N + 1 > $ _MEMBER_NUMBER =3D F$FAO("!OW",N) > $ UIC_INT =3D (%O'_MEMBER_NUMBER' + (%X10000 * %O'_GROUP_NUMBER')) > $ UIC_NAME =3D F$IDENTIFIER(UIC_INT,"NUMBER_TO_NAME") > $ IF (UIC_NAME .NES. "") THEN $ GOTO _LOOP > $ UIC =3D F$FAO("!%U",UIC_INT) > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "The next available UIC is ''UIC'." > $ EXIT As 0 is a valid member number, the initialization should be N =3D -1. cu, Martin -- = One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de One OS to bring them all | http://vms.pdv-systeme.de/users/martin= v/ And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 03:49:37 -0600 From: Louis Krupp Subject: Re: Is this a bug or expected behaviour in C99? Message-ID: <13efdi5ku0g9o14@corp.supernews.com> Jim Duff wrote: > $ cc/version > HP C V7.1-015 on OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 > $ create test.c > $ deck > #include > #include > > #define TEST(a, b, ...) test (a, b, ##__VA_ARGS__) > > static void test (int a, int b, ...) { > > return; > } > > int main (void) { > > TEST (1,2,3); > TEST (1,2); > } > $ eod > $ cc test.c > > TEST (1,2); > .............^ > %CC-W-TOOFEWACTUALS, Too few actual parameters in the invocation of the > macro "T > EST". > at line number 14 in file MY_DISK:[000000]TEST.C;1 > > TEST (1,2); > ....^ > %CC-E-BADEXPR, Invalid expression. > at line number 14 in file MY_DISK:[000000]TEST.C;1 > $ > > I understand the TOOFEWACTUALS warning. The documentation says that the > arguments not supplied will be given a null value. However, it appears > that we are being literal here ;-) and the argument not supplied is > really null, not NULL, and we end up with code after the expansion that is > > test (1, 2, ); > > which produces the BADEXPR error. > > Questions: Is my code legal C99? If so, is this expected compiler > behaviour, or is it a bug? I can't find anything in the 7.3/7.2 release > notes (yes, I'm aware I'm on an old compiler) that seems to address this. > > Any help appreciated. > > Jim. > -- > www.eight-cubed.com I tried compiling your code on a UNIX system with gcc version 2.95.2 (which is also old). It worked, and the preprocessor output was as expected: test ( 1 , 2 ,3 ) ; test ( 1 , 2 ) ; Louis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 03:50:56 -0700 From: chrisj.doran@proemail.co.uk Subject: Re: Is this a bug or expected behaviour in C99? Message-ID: <1189594256.857334.202260@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On 12 Sep, 11:49, Louis Krupp wrote: > Jim Duff wrote: > > $ cc/version > > HP C V7.1-015 on OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 > > $ create test.c > > $ deck > > #include > > #include > > > #define TEST(a, b, ...) test (a, b, ##__VA_ARGS__) > > > static void test (int a, int b, ...) { > > > return; > > } > > > int main (void) { > > > TEST (1,2,3); > > TEST (1,2); > > } > > $ eod > > $ cc test.c > > > TEST (1,2); > > .............^ > > %CC-W-TOOFEWACTUALS, Too few actual parameters in the invocation of the > > macro "T > > EST". > > at line number 14 in file MY_DISK:[000000]TEST.C;1 > > > TEST (1,2); > > ....^ > > %CC-E-BADEXPR, Invalid expression. > > at line number 14 in file MY_DISK:[000000]TEST.C;1 > > $ > > > I understand the TOOFEWACTUALS warning. The documentation says that the > > arguments not supplied will be given a null value. However, it appears > > that we are being literal here ;-) and the argument not supplied is > > really null, not NULL, and we end up with code after the expansion that is > > > test (1, 2, ); > > > which produces the BADEXPR error. > > > Questions: Is my code legal C99? If so, is this expected compiler > > behaviour, or is it a bug? I can't find anything in the 7.3/7.2 release > > notes (yes, I'm aware I'm on an old compiler) that seems to address this. > > > Any help appreciated. > > > Jim. > > -- > >www.eight-cubed.com > > I tried compiling your code on a UNIX system with gcc version 2.95.2 > (which is also old). It worked, and the preprocessor output was as > expected: > > test ( 1 , 2 ,3 ) ; > test ( 1 , 2 ) ; > > Louis Dare I say it, it also works on M$ C/C++ Version 14.00.50727.762 (but not Version 12). But thanks for telling us that how to have macros with variable number of args -- I've often wondered, but never come across how to do it. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:11:26 +0100 From: "Richard Brodie" Subject: Re: Is this a bug or expected behaviour in C99? Message-ID: "Louis Krupp" wrote in message news:13efdi5ku0g9o14@corp.supernews.com... > Jim Duff wrote: >> Questions: Is my code legal C99? No. > I tried compiling your code on a UNIX system with gcc version 2.95.2 (which is also > old). It worked # gcc -std=c99 --pedantic test.c # test.c:14:14: warning: ISO C99 requires rest arguments to be used ------------------------------ Date: 12 Sep 2007 08:43:10 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: Product Install, UNDO and recovery data (again!) Message-ID: <46e7a69e@news.langstoeger.at> In article <5kp4e3F4snqaU1@mid.individual.net>, Ken Fairfield writes: >I *think* the conclusion from those discussions, particularly John >Santos' post(s), was that (1) when doing PROCICT INSTALL of >ECOs/patches, the recovery data is, or can be, saved and the patch >backed out with a PRODUCT UNDO command; and (2) that a PRODUCT INSTALL >of some product (not a patch) will delete the recovery data. > >My questions are: > > a) Is this summary pretty much correct? > b) It doesn't matter if the patches are VMS patches and > the product is something unrelated (Fortran for example), > the VMS recovery data will *still* be deleted? Yes and yes. Recovery data are saved in the PCSI$UNDO directories regardless whether it is an ECO for VMS or for a layered product. "Full kit" (you know, the kits with "*-1.PCSI*") installations delete the recovery data (saved by this "*-4.PCSI*") before their installation. Therefore my install recommendations are still: 1) Install one kit after the other (and not more than one on the same time) 2) Group them so that you have a) VMSINSTAL kits b) full PCSI kits c) ECO PCSI kits 3) Always use an installation log file a) always use /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA (or DEFINE PCSI$$SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA YES) b) always use /LOG (or define PCSI$LOG TRUE) c) always use /TRACE (or define PCSI$TRACE TRUE) 4) Always delete all recovery data before the installation session begins ad1) this way you have only one product per logfile and you may remove this one product later by hand (if PRODUCT REMOVE doesn't work/exist) It also helps identifying where a file on the system disks belongs to. ad2) VMSINSTAL kits _MAY_ render your saved recovery data useless/corrupt and you/PCSI won't notice. ad3) this is for sanity of course (and gets as much info there as possible) ad4) or you end up having the deletion of umpteen PCSI$UNDO directories listed in the installation log of one (the first, and unrelated) full PCSI kit btw: TCPIP V5.5/V5.6 ECO1 is not an ECO, but a full PCSI kit instead!! -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:22:29 -0400 From: D Gillbilly Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: OpenVMS: Go Ahead - Audit Me ---------------------------- Educating the Auditors It was a thorough audit. Each staff member was given personal auditor time. The auditor wanted to know how the computer enforced job descriptions. The staff figured magic. Management said "Not my Job". Curious, the auditors asked the (OpenVMS hostile) IT department. Unable to come up with a better answer (*don't know* was in some ways a far worse answer), the auditor contacted the app vendor about the mystery box. A short meeting with the app vendor assured the auditors that the system was not a retired, unsupported box, and even though a basic understanding of the system had long since disappeared from their organization, it did not require any magic to manage. The were given pointers to the documentation on their server (and the names of some OpenVMS friendly support staff that would be better able to help them), pointers to the (obscure :-) security manuals that the OpenVMS vendor hides on the internet, and a few simple and cost effective changes to their current setup. Much relieved, the auditors returned home to find out why IT is trying so hard to get rid of this set of applications that still do their job with only the minimum of resources and staff. A short time later the bean counters call to inquire about upgrades to their old kit and the customer calls to request some long overdue enhancements. Peace Duane (A survivor of way too many tax credit audits) OpenVMS: R&D Heaven ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 01:02:12 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Message-ID: On 09/11/07 19:11, Tom Linden wrote: > On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:35:15 -0700, Ron Johnson > wrote: > >> On 09/11/07 18:22, Tom Linden wrote: >>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:41:29 -0700, JF Mezei >>> wrote: >>> >>>> http://www.cio.com/article/135700/Seven_Wonders_of_the_IT_World/7 >>>> >>>> It lists Linux as one of the 7 wonders of the IT world. It mentions >>>> 8.2 million lines of code and growing at 10% per year, and 2.89 >>>> changes to the kernel per hour. >>>> >>>> Is this really sustainable ? >>>> >>>> Perhaps if VMS were allowed to be marketed, they could use arguments >>>> such as "stable code base" and "discipline in code management" to >>>> convince CIOs that it is better to go with VMS than going with the new >>>> kid on the block that is still going through puberty with ackward >>>> growth spurts. >>> >>> >>> I just calculated at that rate it will be as big as VMS in 14 + years >>> (didn't have a calculator) >> >> What part of VMS did you look at? The Whole Thing? >> > Just remember a quiz by Hoff ???? > and it would be about 4 times as large, I > guess that was all of VMS Including DCL and all the utilities? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 06:15:41 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:02:12 -0700, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 09/11/07 19:11, Tom Linden wrote: >> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:35:15 -0700, Ron Johnson >> wrote: >> >>> On 09/11/07 18:22, Tom Linden wrote: >>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:41:29 -0700, JF Mezei >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> http://www.cio.com/article/135700/Seven_Wonders_of_the_IT_World/7 >>>>> >>>>> It lists Linux as one of the 7 wonders of the IT world. It mentions >>>>> 8.2 million lines of code and growing at 10% per year, and 2.89 >>>>> changes to the kernel per hour. >>>>> >>>>> Is this really sustainable ? >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps if VMS were allowed to be marketed, they could use arguments >>>>> such as "stable code base" and "discipline in code management" to >>>>> convince CIOs that it is better to go with VMS than going with the >>>>> new >>>>> kid on the block that is still going through puberty with ackward >>>>> growth spurts. >>>> >>>> >>>> I just calculated at that rate it will be as big as VMS in 14 + years >>>> (didn't have a calculator) >>> >>> What part of VMS did you look at? The Whole Thing? >>> >> Just remember a quiz by Hoff > > ???? > >> and it would be about 4 times as large, I >> guess that was all of VMS > > Including DCL and all the utilities? > I don't know. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:48:50 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Message-ID: On 09/12/07 08:15, Tom Linden wrote: > On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:02:12 -0700, Ron Johnson > wrote: > >> On 09/11/07 19:11, Tom Linden wrote: >>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:35:15 -0700, Ron Johnson >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 09/11/07 18:22, Tom Linden wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:41:29 -0700, JF Mezei >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.cio.com/article/135700/Seven_Wonders_of_the_IT_World/7 >>>>>> >>>>>> It lists Linux as one of the 7 wonders of the IT world. It mentions >>>>>> 8.2 million lines of code and growing at 10% per year, and 2.89 >>>>>> changes to the kernel per hour. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this really sustainable ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps if VMS were allowed to be marketed, they could use arguments >>>>>> such as "stable code base" and "discipline in code management" to >>>>>> convince CIOs that it is better to go with VMS than going with the >>>>>> new >>>>>> kid on the block that is still going through puberty with ackward >>>>>> growth spurts. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I just calculated at that rate it will be as big as VMS in 14 + years >>>>> (didn't have a calculator) >>>> >>>> What part of VMS did you look at? The Whole Thing? >>>> >>> Just remember a quiz by Hoff >> >> ???? >> >>> and it would be about 4 times as large, I >>> guess that was all of VMS >> >> Including DCL and all the utilities? >> > I don't know. Hmmm. The analogous Linux comparison would be: kernel + bash + core utilities + "systartup_vms" -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.498 ************************