INFO-VAX Sat, 15 Sep 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 503 Contents: Re: despair Re: Free DS10L Drawing again ! Re: Free DS10L Drawing again ! Re: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Pearl from The Availability Digest - Integrity, VMS, TDMS Re: Pearl from The Availability Digest - Integrity, VMS, TDMS Re: volume shadowing question Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:57:44 -0700 From: "David P. Murphy" Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1189821464.805918.183330@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Sep 14, 1:40 pm, AEF wrote: > So the author of this bad code was apparently only worried about show- > stoppers. I beg to differ. Anytime you code $ ON ERROR THEN CONTINUE in front of a ALLOCATE command, that is just plain wrong. No debate. Your arguments seem to hold water only as far as error trapping the outcome of the BACKUP command, but this lies before the INITIALIZE and ALLOCATE as well as the BACKUP. Guilty, guilty, guilty. > I'm not recommending this way of doing things; I'm just > trying to explain what I think the motivating factors were. > Of course incompetence and not-giving-a-s%%% are other possible > reasons! I'm going with "stupidity" here. Truly, a little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing. > Maybe it was written by a BOFH! Nah, the Bastard always knows exactly what he's doing. ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 02:11:49 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Free DS10L Drawing again ! Message-ID: "David Turner, Island Computers" writes: >If you haven't sent in your request to be in the drawing then do so with >DS10L in the subject line I was just thinking: A hobbyist winner of this DS10L (or the purchasor of one w/o a CDROM) is going to have a difficult time getting VMS onto it, unless already a hobbyist, or has access to a VMS system (another hobbyist or at work), or can get an IDE CDROM that works with VMS and is able and willing to open the box and connect it temporarily. Perhaps, as a service you can offer to preload such systems with the latest hobbyist VMS, obviously without licenses. For a small fee, if that's legal under the hobbyist system (I don't know). Or with licenses, if the purchasor/winner provides you with the hobbyist license files in advance. I didn't have the problem since I happened to have all of the methods, not just one. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 06:23:57 +0200 From: Ulrich Bellgardt Subject: Re: Free DS10L Drawing again ! Message-ID: Michael Moroney wrote: > I was just thinking: A hobbyist winner of this DS10L (or the purchasor of > one w/o a CDROM) is going to have a difficult time getting VMS onto it, > unless already a hobbyist, or has access to a VMS system (another hobbyist > or at work), or can get an IDE CDROM that works with VMS and is able and > willing to open the box and connect it temporarily. Perhaps, as a service > you can offer to preload such systems with the latest hobbyist VMS, > obviously without licenses. For a small fee, if that's legal under the > hobbyist system (I don't know). You forgot the option to simply purchase a CD drive for the DS10L. For a very reasonable price (just few $ more than the charge for shipping a DS10L to Germany), Mr. Turner added a CD drive to the configuration of the DS10L I won earlier this year. Cheers, -Uli ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 07:28:28 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Message-ID: Hi Sue, > Great news the TCP/IP team just sent mail that the IPsec Early > Adopters Kit (EAK) is now available for download (Alpha and > Integrity). Details are below This indeed great news! Some of us have been waiting a long time for this, but better late than never eh. Has anyone had a chance to look at the kit yet and put it through its paces? > - Host-based authentication: > - preshared keys > - Digital certificates (future) Can IPsec a la mode de VMS (in it's present state) talk to Windows IPsec? Is that saying there is no Automatic Key Exchange in this version? Sadly we've all come to learn that "future" is a pretty big brush-stroke when it comes to TCP/IP engineering :-( What the hell have they been doing all this time? Seriously, what are the staffing/resource levels in TCP/IP development? (Is John Genignani still out there? I can name at least half a dozen free-loading passengers on the good ship VMS that could be cut adrift, if it would help get back just one Christian Moser!) Insert Multinet add here (It all seems sooo long ago) http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/5d152824d68a9bb0 Cheers Richard Maher "Sue" wrote in message news:1188488208.671745.261690@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com... > Dear Newsgrou, > > Great news the TCP/IP team just sent mail that the IPsec Early > Adopters Kit (EAK) is now available for download (Alpha and > Integrity). Details are below > > Warm Regards, > Sue > ------------------------------------------------------ > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ipsec/index.html > > Announcing the HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS IPsec T5.7 Early > Adopters Kit (EAK) available > > IPsec functionality has been incorporated into and will be distributed > as part of the HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.7 release for > Integrity and Alpha systems. The EAK is being delivered as a complete > HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS T5.7 kit that includes an early version > of the IPsec functionality. Below is a brief overview. > > HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS IPsec > > OpenVMS IPsec provides an infrastructure to allow secure > communications > (authentication, integrity, confidentiality) over IP-based > networks > between systems and devices that implement the IPsec protocol > suite. > OpenVMS IPsec offers protection against replay attacks, packet > tampering, and spoofing -- and it keeps others from viewing > critical > data such as passwords and financial information sent over the > Internet. > > > Features and Benefits > > Some of the benefits of OpenVMS IPsec are: > > - Adheres to all relevant IPsec standards, including IKE (Internet > Key Exchange) for automated key generation. > > - Allows secure tunnels between business partners to be set up and > torn > down quickly and easily > > - Easily adopted and transparent to existing applications. > Protects > the customer's investment. > > - Demonstrated multi-vendor interoperability (future) > > - Thwarts attacks by encrypting data transmitted between two > authenticated servers > > - Host-based authentication: > - preshared keys > - Digital certificates (future) > > - Full stateful packet inspection firewall > > - Command line interface (CLI) for policy configuration: > - ipsec_config configuration utility based on the HP-UX > IPSec ipsec_config utility > - profile file to provide default parameter values that can be > modified by the user > - flexible rule-based security attribute and access control > policy configurations -- allows combinations of IP > addresses, > prefix lengths, ports, and protocols in specifying security > attributes configuration and packet filtering > - dynamic configuration and batch mode for bulk configuration > > - Focused on end-system IPsec. OpenVMS IPsec can communicate with > other end-systems (transport mode) or VPN gateways (tunnel > mode). > > > > =========== > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:32:45 -0700 From: Sue Subject: Pearl from The Availability Digest - Integrity, VMS, TDMS Message-ID: <1189812765.165919.190680@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Dear Newsgroup, It is truly my pleasure to provide this Pearl which focuses on Continuous Processing which is an area where OpenVMS excels. The Availability Digest is an on-line journal with the following mission statement: Continuous availability can be approached by using active/active technology. The Availability Digest focuses on active/active technologies and other high availability approaches. It brings you the information you need to be successful with your quest for 100% uptime. The Digest includes case studies, horror stories, best practices, active/active issues, product reviews, recommended reading, and some mathematical nerd stuff. Home page: http://availabilitydigest.com/ This week they had an OpenVMS specific article - QEI Provides Active/Active SCADA with OpenVMS http://www.availabilitydigest.com/public_articles/0209/qei.pdf This is a very detailed seven page article which I think you will enjoy. It has really been a busy week for good news and I apologize for so much mail. Warm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:29:46 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Pearl from The Availability Digest - Integrity, VMS, TDMS Message-ID: <9e640$46eb358d$cef8887a$1020@TEKSAVVY.COM> Sue wrote: > http://www.availabilitydigest.com/public_articles/0209/qei.pdf > Many thanks. It is articles like those that gice us some hope for VMS. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:45:58 -0700 From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: volume shadowing question Message-ID: <1189799158.713165.65880@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Sep 13, 2:16 pm, "Syltrem" wrote: > Hello > > We are installing an EVA4000 in replacement of an MSA1000. > > I was wondering if I could use HBVS to switch my data onto the new storag= e, > online. > > That is: create a new drive on the EVA4000, mount it as a shadow member of > the existing one on MSA1000. > When the merge is complete, dismount the member that's on the MSA1000. > > A possible technical problem: > The VMScluster is comprised of 2 Alphaservers and one IA64 server. When I > mount /cluster the shadow member, will all nodes see it properly (differe= nt > architecture should not be a problem on VMS) ? > > And is there something obvious that I do not see ? Is this a workable pla= n ? > I remember 5-6 years ago, HBVS would not mount members of different sizes= so > that will certainly be a problem if it's still the case. > > And I hope HP can lend me HBVS licenses for a week or two... I may still > have some for Alpha but certainly not for IA64. > > Just thinking, looking for feedback > > Thanks > -- > Syltremhttp://pages.infinit.net/syltrem(OpenVMS information and help, en = fran=E7ais) Syltrem, I gave a presentation on precisely this point at the 2007 HP Enterprise Symposium in Las Vegas a few months ago. The presentation, "Migrating OpenVMS Storage Environments without Interruption or Disruption", is available at http://www.rlgsc.com/hptechnologyforum/2007/1512.html This scenario, and several related ones, are actually excellent arguments for using single member shadow sets routinely. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 2007 15:46:22 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson writes: > > Unless CMS was originally a 3rd party product, one would hope that > DEC ate it's own dog food. The presentation I was at made it sound like MMS and CMS originated with the ACS required by the original ACS spec, but then worked on to be language neutral. VSE was often presented as a "homegrown" tool made by VMS Engineering to meet the needs of building VMS, available to anyone since it's on the Freeware CD. Needing RDB was, at the time, not a problem in the eyes of DEC employees. But the API to CMS has long been published and anyone can roll something on top of it to meet their needs. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:05:17 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Message-ID: On 09/14/07 15:46, Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , Ron Johnson writes: >> Unless CMS was originally a 3rd party product, one would hope that >> DEC ate it's own dog food. > > The presentation I was at made it sound like MMS and CMS originated > with the ACS required by the original ACS spec, but then worked on ACS? > to be language neutral. > > VSE was often presented as a "homegrown" tool made by VMS Engineering > to meet the needs of building VMS, available to anyone since it's > on the Freeware CD. > > Needing RDB was, at the time, not a problem in the eyes of DEC > employees. But the API to CMS has long been published and anyone can > roll something on top of it to meet their needs. > -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:05:22 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Message-ID: VDE allows multiple CMS libraries to be operated as a unit, and allows for various implementation and administrative (review, notification, etc) functions that later became available within CMS itself, as well as various functions specific to the particular environment VDE was intended for. DEC Notes, for instance, can used as a way to post and to track information related to changes. VDE was built on callable CMS, on callable DEC Notes, on NMAIL, on Rdb, and on a half-dozen or so other pieces of classic DIGITAL software. The list of prerequisite software pieces is listed in the install guide for VDE. One wag once commented VDE was probably one of the most expensive pieces of Freeware known, given on its product dependencies. The full VDE documentation is moderately huge, with the reference manual and the user's guide being the two biggest pieces. Probably three or four inches of paper, when printed out. I had my copy in two binders left from an old manual set. The VDE use of the CMS API is as source code database, and with a few related tasks. VDE streams line up with CMS classes, for instance. The primary use of CMS is as a difference engine, as well as for compatibility elsewhere. VDE has appeared on the Freeware twice, most recently with Freeware V7.0. The documentation is available on both, though it's easier to get at the documentation on Freeware V4. (In Freeware V7, the then-current VDE doc is embedded within and is installed by the PCSI kit; you can extract it from the kit.) http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/freewarev40/vde/doc/vde_guide.html http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/freewarev70/vde/ If you dig around, you should be able to find at least a few of the old presentations I created for various symposia. I submitted a source code control session every couple of symposia. In particular, there was an evaluation of various products that was discussed at a DECUS eons ago, as a result of looking at various then-available products. That was so long ago that mentioning the other products isn't really relevant now. That CMS was in use goes back rather further than that. The VDE command interface was a classic DIGITAL CLI-style utility. If you've seen how a product such as IBM Rational ClearCase works, you'll see a different and -- in my opinion -- rather cleaner and more transparent approach than a CLI-style interface. ClearCase presents what it calls VOBs -- virtual object bases -- which are synthetic disk volumes. The files and directory structures are instantiated from the contents of the underlying source pool and source code database. You can run a build right off the VOB. You'll also see many source code control systems tie more directly into development environment tools and processes. As for the selection and use of a source system by any organization, there's a whole lot of code and structure that gets built up around the environment -- not only do you have the migration to deal with, but all the supporting code and scaffolding that tends to accumulate around the source system has to be ported. For a small environment, this can be manageable and usually only ranges up to a massive disruption to the existing environment and processes. When you're working with line counts (well) north of IIRC 25 (VAX 32-bit pool) and 27 (64-bit) million lines of code as was the case for OpenVMS (and that was quite some time ago), migrating to a different source code tool gets rather more involved. (I'd guesstimate rather higher for the current source pool.) But this source control has little to do with the Linux kernel and the GNU (and non-GNU) tools, which is a fine and free and widely available operating system kernel and a widely-accepted set of tools and APIs. Given the exposure and the prevalence of git within the Linux kernel team and related projects, I'd certainly investigate that tool whenever a distributed source environment is required. Getting back to the OP and the discussion of bloat, any of the various Linux distros -- Ubuntu, Gentoo or other such -- would make a good choice for much of what JF might need an operating system for moving forward, as would his existing or a new Apple Mac system -- should JF (ever) decide to migrate off of OpenVMS. Solaris is also freely available. All of these are fully x86-64 capable for use on HP ProLiant (Solaris and Linux distros have been qualified on ProLiant, per HP) as well as all of the current Mac OS X options. There will eventually be a day when there won't be Linux -- that's the way of all products -- but there'll almost certainly be a successor or descendant or heir to the Linux environment. What that heir might look like is something we just don't know yet. But it is about as certain as anything in this business that the heir OS will have substantial Linux compatibility. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS (and former VDE devo) ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.503 ************************