INFO-VAX Mon, 24 Sep 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 521 Contents: Can't use SIZE and MDTM commands in OpenVMS FTP server Re: Can't use SIZE and MDTM commands in OpenVMS FTP server Re: Can't use SIZE and MDTM commands in OpenVMS FTP server Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: Little Alpha I learned on is up... Re: Lock problem with SAMBA/NMBD Re: VMS Update ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 15:23:00 +1000 From: Gremlin Subject: Can't use SIZE and MDTM commands in OpenVMS FTP server Message-ID: <13feidli0uurp56@corp.supernews.com> Hi all Using OpenVMS 8.2 with HP TCP/IP v5.5 ECO 1. I am using the SmartFTP client to get files to/from the box (FileZilla doesn't want to work) and SmartFTP works OK except every file transferred incurs a lot ov overhead throiugh directory re-listings. A short log file listing follows: Using SmartFTP v2.5.1006 to transfer html files to an OpenVMS server, I get the following set of actions showing in the log: [19:47:43] TYPE A [19:47:43] 200 TYPE set to ASCII. [19:47:43] PASV [19:47:43] 227 Entering Passive Mode (x,y,z,200,238,55) [19:47:43] Opening data connection to x.y.z.200 Port: 60983 [19:47:43] LIST [19:47:43] 150 Opening data connection for HT_ROOT:[000000]*.*;* (x.y.z.55,2377) [19:47:43] 20803 bytes transferred. (86.8 KB/s) (234 ms) [19:47:43] 226 LIST Directory transfer complete. [19:47:43] File "home.html" not found in directory listing. [19:47:43] TYPE I [19:47:43] 200 TYPE set to IMAGE. [19:47:43] PASV [19:47:43] 227 Entering Passive Mode (x,y,z,200,238,56) [19:47:43] Opening data connection to x.y.z.200 Port: 60984 [19:47:43] STOR home.html [19:47:43] 150 Opening data connection for HT_ROOT:[000000]home.html; (x.y.z.55,2378) [19:47:44] 14448 bytes transferred. (129 KB/s) (109 ms) [19:47:44] 226 Transfer complete. [19:47:44] MDTM 20070923092635 home.html [19:47:44] 502 MDTM is unimplemented. [19:47:44] SIZE home.html [19:47:44] 502 SIZE is unimplemented. [19:47:44] SIZE not supported. [19:47:44] Obtaining file information (size/date) from directory listing. [19:47:44] Ignoring LIST options. [19:47:44] TYPE A [19:47:44] 200 TYPE set to ASCII. [19:47:44] PASV [19:47:44] 227 Entering Passive Mode (x,y,z,200,238,57) [19:47:44] Opening data connection to x.y.z.200 Port: 60985 [19:47:44] LIST [19:47:44] 150 Opening data connection for HT_ROOT:[000000]*.*;* (x.y.z.55,2379) [19:47:44] 20905 bytes transferred. (86.8 KB/s) (235 ms) [19:47:44] 226 LIST Directory transfer complete. [19:47:44] File "home.html" not found in directory listing. [19:47:44] Ignoring LIST options. [19:47:44] PASV [19:47:44] 227 Entering Passive Mode (x,y,z,200,238,59) [19:47:44] Opening data connection to x.y.z.200 Port: 60987 [19:47:44] LIST [19:47:44] 150 Opening data connection for HT_ROOT:[000000]*.*;* (x.y.z.55,2380) [19:47:44] 20905 bytes transferred. (93.2 KB/s) (219 ms) [19:47:44] 226 LIST Directory transfer complete. [19:47:44] Transfer successful. SmartFTP *helpfully* say the problem is that OpenVMS doesn't support the FTP SIZE or MDTM commands, so everythign has to be relisted after each file. Agonising when transfering hundreds of them. Anyone have some suggestions about how I can implement SIZE and/or MDTM in the FTP stack? The TCP/IP installation and management documentation doesn't give me any hints. Cheers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:50:24 +0200 From: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> Subject: Re: Can't use SIZE and MDTM commands in OpenVMS FTP server Message-ID: <46f75028$0$227$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> I never had an issue with Filezilla. What fails with that program? Jur. Gremlin wrote: > Hi all > > Using OpenVMS 8.2 with HP TCP/IP v5.5 ECO 1. I am using the SmartFTP > client to get files to/from the box (FileZilla doesn't want to work) and > SmartFTP works OK except every file transferred incurs a lot ov > overhead throiugh directory re-listings. A short log file listing follows: > > Using SmartFTP v2.5.1006 to transfer html files to an OpenVMS server, I > get the following set of actions showing in the log: > [19:47:43] TYPE A > [19:47:43] 200 TYPE set to ASCII. > [19:47:43] PASV > [19:47:43] 227 Entering Passive Mode (x,y,z,200,238,55) > [19:47:43] Opening data connection to x.y.z.200 Port: 60983 > [19:47:43] LIST > [19:47:43] 150 Opening data connection for HT_ROOT:[000000]*.*;* > (x.y.z.55,2377) > [19:47:43] 20803 bytes transferred. (86.8 KB/s) (234 ms) > [19:47:43] 226 LIST Directory transfer complete. > [19:47:43] File "home.html" not found in directory listing. > [19:47:43] TYPE I > [19:47:43] 200 TYPE set to IMAGE. > [19:47:43] PASV > [19:47:43] 227 Entering Passive Mode (x,y,z,200,238,56) > [19:47:43] Opening data connection to x.y.z.200 Port: 60984 > [19:47:43] STOR home.html > [19:47:43] 150 Opening data connection for HT_ROOT:[000000]home.html; > (x.y.z.55,2378) > [19:47:44] 14448 bytes transferred. (129 KB/s) (109 ms) > [19:47:44] 226 Transfer complete. > [19:47:44] MDTM 20070923092635 home.html > [19:47:44] 502 MDTM is unimplemented. > [19:47:44] SIZE home.html > [19:47:44] 502 SIZE is unimplemented. > [19:47:44] SIZE not supported. > [19:47:44] Obtaining file information (size/date) from directory listing. > [19:47:44] Ignoring LIST options. > [19:47:44] TYPE A > [19:47:44] 200 TYPE set to ASCII. > [19:47:44] PASV > [19:47:44] 227 Entering Passive Mode (x,y,z,200,238,57) > [19:47:44] Opening data connection to x.y.z.200 Port: 60985 > [19:47:44] LIST > [19:47:44] 150 Opening data connection for HT_ROOT:[000000]*.*;* > (x.y.z.55,2379) > [19:47:44] 20905 bytes transferred. (86.8 KB/s) (235 ms) > [19:47:44] 226 LIST Directory transfer complete. > [19:47:44] File "home.html" not found in directory listing. > [19:47:44] Ignoring LIST options. > [19:47:44] PASV > [19:47:44] 227 Entering Passive Mode (x,y,z,200,238,59) > [19:47:44] Opening data connection to x.y.z.200 Port: 60987 > [19:47:44] LIST > [19:47:44] 150 Opening data connection for HT_ROOT:[000000]*.*;* > (x.y.z.55,2380) > [19:47:44] 20905 bytes transferred. (93.2 KB/s) (219 ms) > [19:47:44] 226 LIST Directory transfer complete. > [19:47:44] Transfer successful. > > SmartFTP *helpfully* say the problem is that OpenVMS doesn't support the > FTP SIZE or MDTM commands, so everythign has to be relisted after each > file. Agonising when transfering hundreds of them. > > Anyone have some suggestions about how I can implement SIZE and/or MDTM > in the FTP stack? The TCP/IP installation and management documentation > doesn't give me any hints. > > Cheers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:32:27 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Can't use SIZE and MDTM commands in OpenVMS FTP server Message-ID: <07092400322716_20200296@antinode.org> From: Gremlin > Using OpenVMS 8.2 with HP TCP/IP v5.5 ECO 1. I am using the SmartFTP > client to get files to/from the box (FileZilla doesn't want to work) and > SmartFTP works OK except every file transferred incurs a lot ov > overhead throiugh directory re-listings. A short log file listing follows: > [...] > [19:47:43] 226 LIST Directory transfer complete. > [19:47:43] File "home.html" not found in directory listing. Why not? Wrong case or something? Confused by version numbers? > [19:47:44] MDTM 20070923092635 home.html > [19:47:44] 502 MDTM is unimplemented. > [19:47:44] SIZE home.html > [19:47:44] 502 SIZE is unimplemented. > [19:47:44] SIZE not supported. > [19:47:44] Obtaining file information (size/date) from directory listing. > [...] Why does it care about the date-time and/or size? Can you tell it not to care? > SmartFTP *helpfully* say the problem is that OpenVMS doesn't support the > FTP SIZE or MDTM commands, so everythign has to be relisted after each > file. Agonising when transfering hundreds of them. Sounds as if "SmartFTP" is a misnomer. Re-listing doesn't change the list. Why not use the old one? I was trying to do something with SmartFTP recently, and had some other annoying problem(s). Possibly deleting a directory, or some such thing. I was planning to complain eventually, but haven't done so. (I did get some bugs fixed back around SmartFTP v1.0 Build 982 (31-AUG-2004).) I assume that they don't deal well with the ODS5 extended file name (mis)behavior of the TCPIP FTP server, and I had intended to mention that, too, but I didn't get around to testing it. (Hey. For all I know, it _could_ work.) > Anyone have some suggestions about how I can implement SIZE and/or MDTM > in the FTP stack? The TCP/IP installation and management documentation > doesn't give me any hints. Write your own FTP server? Complain to HP? You'd probably have more luck finding out why SmartFTP wants these data, and how to get it to stop caring. Or use (a suitably modified) wget or curl, or some other program which works better. (What, exactly, are you trying to do, anyway?) I run into this stuff only when visiting a friend who runs Windows, so my opportunities for data collection and complaint submission are limited. I always liked Fetch on the Mac (pre-OS-X) -- seemed to be pretty VMS-friendly. I can't remember needing a fancy FTP client there since the great OS X conversion. (Or maybe I still use Fetch in the Classic environment. Whatever I do, I don't do it much.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:24:29 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <46F6E79D.FF59F210@spam.comcast.net> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > In article , > "Tom Linden" writes: > [snip] > > and (2) if you > > compare > > PL/I and C programs for equivalent functionality, you will find that the C > > version > > will have 2 to 3 times as many source language statements. Now, add /MACHINE_CODE to the compile command and watch the listing blossom to an additional 3 or 4 times the length of the actual C source! > And that means? Somehow, I don't think number of statements is a strong > basis for deciding the economy of a an Information System. If it were, > there would be a lot more stuff written in BASIC. :-) And loaded with > GOTO's. I work almost exclusively in DCL these days. I've not actually worked much in BASIC since I wrote PPF many years ago. Even then, "GO TO" was all but deprecated. Current VMS BASIC has enough "structure" elements (UNTIL/WHILE, SELECT - CASE, etc.) to satisfy a good chunk of the needs of a fair percent of the programmers out there who are being urged to avoid "spaghetti" code. Used to was, the BASIC Language Reference, etc. was available on the web. Don't have a URL for it, though... Guess I'll have to look at the doc. CDs that came with the last SPL we got at work. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:34:33 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: Tom Linden schrieb: > Our PL/I the bounds checking is done in the prolog, when needed (*-extents > for example) otherwise as inline code and that you would have a hard > time trashing. Me thinks the achilles heel still is the descriptor. Trash it and the bounds check is toast. In the old times we used array descriptor modification deliberately to morph e.g. 4-dim arrays into 1-dim (and back) to allow for easier calculation loops. > The VMS PL/I compiler is a better product than the MVS PL/I compiler well, one would expect some progress during the past 25 years :-) > you were using, > Michael, in the days of Prof. Hultsch at GSI. yes, Hultzsch, I'm not sure he is/was Prof., "only" Dr. Anyway, he left GSI in the mid 1980s for a "better" job at EDS. Later he became CIO at german Telekom, and now he's retired. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:02:31 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190592151.788617.205650@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Sep 23, 5:10 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article , > "Tom Linden" writes: > > > On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:35:17 -0700, Bill Gunshannon > > wrote: > > >> In article , > >> "Tom Linden" writes: > > >>> Penny-wise, pound-foolish? The development and maintenance of C code is > >>> more costly. So pay now or pay later. > > >> Sorry, no basis in fact for that. Might actually be cheaper as the pool > >> of available C Programmers is considerably higher than say the pool of > >> available Fortran, COBOL or (gasp) PL/I programmers. And if the shop has > >> reasonable coding standards, maintenance does not have to be a nightmare. > >> (I know, having worked in large shops where turnover every 1-3 years is > >> prett close to 100%.) > > >> bill > > > No, I do have a basis for that (1) 41 years of experience > > More than me, but not by much if you count the times I wandered into > the IT field for short periods of time before I took it on full-time. > > > and (2) if you > > compare > > PL/I and C programs for equivalent functionality, you will find that the C > > version > > will have 2 to 3 times as many source language statements. > > And that means? Somehow, I don't think number of statements is a strong > basis for deciding the economy of a an Information System. If it were, > there would be a lot more stuff written in BASIC. :-) And loaded with > GOTO's. > > And let's not forget that PL/I compilers are rarer than PL/I programmers > which kind of limits it's usefulness beyond some very small niches. Weren't you the one who said bad code comes solely from bad programmers and that the language makes zero difference? Did I miss something? Thanks! AEF [...] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:13:21 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190592801.712774.18550@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Sep 23, 7:34 pm, Michael Kraemer wrote: > Tom Linden schrieb: > > > Our PL/I the bounds checking is done in the prolog, when needed (*-extents > > for example) otherwise as inline code and that you would have a hard > > time trashing. > > Me thinks the achilles heel still is the descriptor. > Trash it and the bounds check is toast. > In the old times we used array descriptor modification deliberately > to morph e.g. 4-dim arrays into 1-dim (and back) to allow > for easier calculation loops. Please excuse my ignorance, but can someone please provide an example of a "descriptor"? I've been using only DCL for years and used FORTRAN back in the 80's and 90's and don't recall what this descriptor thing is and didn't find anything on the Net about it (found all sort of other descriptor stuff). Thanks! [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:34:59 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <46F70633.7060603@comcast.net> AEF wrote: > On Sep 23, 7:34 pm, Michael Kraemer wrote: > >>Tom Linden schrieb: >> >> >>>Our PL/I the bounds checking is done in the prolog, when needed (*-extents >>>for example) otherwise as inline code and that you would have a hard >>>time trashing. >> >>Me thinks the achilles heel still is the descriptor. >>Trash it and the bounds check is toast. >>In the old times we used array descriptor modification deliberately >>to morph e.g. 4-dim arrays into 1-dim (and back) to allow >>for easier calculation loops. > > > Please excuse my ignorance, but can someone please provide an example > of a "descriptor"? I've been using only DCL for years and used FORTRAN > back in the 80's and 90's and don't recall what this descriptor thing > is and didn't find anything on the Net about it (found all sort of > other descriptor stuff). > > Thanks! > > [...] > > AEF > A descriptor is a data structure that describes something; in this case it describes how data is stored. You can look up details in the VMS programming documentation. A typical descriptor would have a code that says what KIND of descriptor it is, followed by things like the starting address, number of dimensions and size of each, etc, etc, etc. It's a low level thing that you'll find in Macro and C. Fortran conceals the sordid details pretty well. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 2007 00:59:00 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <5logekF98a0tU1@mid.individual.net> In article <1190592151.788617.205650@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > On Sep 23, 5:10 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> In article , >> "Tom Linden" writes: >> >> > On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:35:17 -0700, Bill Gunshannon >> > wrote: >> >> >> In article , >> >> "Tom Linden" writes: >> >> >>> Penny-wise, pound-foolish? The development and maintenance of C code is >> >>> more costly. So pay now or pay later. >> >> >> Sorry, no basis in fact for that. Might actually be cheaper as the pool >> >> of available C Programmers is considerably higher than say the pool of >> >> available Fortran, COBOL or (gasp) PL/I programmers. And if the shop has >> >> reasonable coding standards, maintenance does not have to be a nightmare. >> >> (I know, having worked in large shops where turnover every 1-3 years is >> >> prett close to 100%.) >> >> >> bill >> >> > No, I do have a basis for that (1) 41 years of experience >> >> More than me, but not by much if you count the times I wandered into >> the IT field for short periods of time before I took it on full-time. >> >> > and (2) if you >> > compare >> > PL/I and C programs for equivalent functionality, you will find that the C >> > version >> > will have 2 to 3 times as many source language statements. >> >> And that means? Somehow, I don't think number of statements is a strong >> basis for deciding the economy of a an Information System. If it were, >> there would be a lot more stuff written in BASIC. :-) And loaded with >> GOTO's. >> >> And let's not forget that PL/I compilers are rarer than PL/I programmers >> which kind of limits it's usefulness beyond some very small niches. > > Weren't you the one who said bad code comes solely from bad > programmers and that the language makes zero difference? Did I miss > something? What does that have to do with the fact that PL/I compilers are rarer than PL/I programmers? Or the number of statements it takes to write a program in any given language? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:12:29 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190596349.044927.135440@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Sep 23, 8:34 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > AEF wrote: > > On Sep 23, 7:34 pm, Michael Kraemer wrote: > > >>Tom Linden schrieb: > > >>>Our PL/I the bounds checking is done in the prolog, when needed (*-extents > >>>for example) otherwise as inline code and that you would have a hard > >>>time trashing. > > >>Me thinks the achilles heel still is the descriptor. > >>Trash it and the bounds check is toast. > >>In the old times we used array descriptor modification deliberately > >>to morph e.g. 4-dim arrays into 1-dim (and back) to allow > >>for easier calculation loops. > > > Please excuse my ignorance, but can someone please provide an example > > of a "descriptor"? I've been using only DCL for years and used FORTRAN > > back in the 80's and 90's and don't recall what this descriptor thing > > is and didn't find anything on the Net about it (found all sort of > > other descriptor stuff). > > > Thanks! > > > [...] > > > AEF > > A descriptor is a data structure that describes something; in this case > it describes how data is stored. You can look up details in the VMS > programming documentation. A typical descriptor would have a code that > says what KIND of descriptor it is, followed by things like the starting > address, number of dimensions and size of each, etc, etc, etc. > > It's a low level thing that you'll find in Macro and C. Fortran > conceals the sordid details pretty well. I forgot to mention that I have some familiarity with C. I actually worked a good part of the way through "Programming in [ANSI] C" by Kochan in the mid-90's. So can you please give an example of a descriptor and its use in C? Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:19:40 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <6abbc$46f710ae$cef8887a$23856@TEKSAVVY.COM> Michael Kraemer wrote: > Me thinks the achilles heel still is the descriptor. > Trash it and the bounds check is toast. Well, a descriptor is just a way to tell whatever operator in a foreign function to limit how far it can write. The calling program, no matter what language it is written in, has no way to prevent the called subroutine to misbehave and write beyond the end of the character array. And decriptors lack the ability to store both the size-allocated, and size-currently-used. This would have been very neat to have when you call some subroutine which would then update the "size-currently-used" field with the size of the string that was written to that buffer. As it stands, you need to supply a different argument so the subroutine can pass back that value. (or in the case of $QIO, look at the io status block once the operation has completed). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:21:01 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190596861.683981.103920@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Sep 23, 8:59 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <1190592151.788617.205...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > AEF writes: > > > On Sep 23, 5:10 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> In article , > >> "Tom Linden" writes: > > >> > On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:35:17 -0700, Bill Gunshannon > >> > wrote: > > >> >> In article , > >> >> "Tom Linden" writes: > > >> >>> Penny-wise, pound-foolish? The development and maintenance of C code is > >> >>> more costly. So pay now or pay later. > > >> >> Sorry, no basis in fact for that. Might actually be cheaper as the pool > >> >> of available C Programmers is considerably higher than say the pool of > >> >> available Fortran, COBOL or (gasp) PL/I programmers. And if the shop has > >> >> reasonable coding standards, maintenance does not have to be a nightmare. > >> >> (I know, having worked in large shops where turnover every 1-3 years is > >> >> prett close to 100%.) > > >> >> bill > > >> > No, I do have a basis for that (1) 41 years of experience > > >> More than me, but not by much if you count the times I wandered into > >> the IT field for short periods of time before I took it on full-time. > > >> > and (2) if you > >> > compare > >> > PL/I and C programs for equivalent functionality, you will find that the C > >> > version > >> > will have 2 to 3 times as many source language statements. > > >> And that means? Somehow, I don't think number of statements is a strong > >> basis for deciding the economy of a an Information System. If it were, > >> there would be a lot more stuff written in BASIC. :-) And loaded with > >> GOTO's. > > >> And let's not forget that PL/I compilers are rarer than PL/I programmers > >> which kind of limits it's usefulness beyond some very small niches. > > > Weren't you the one who said bad code comes solely from bad > > programmers and that the language makes zero difference? Did I miss > > something? > > What does that have to do with the fact that PL/I compilers are rarer > than PL/I programmers? Or the number of statements it takes to write > a program in any given language? > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Sorry, I was referring mostly to your excessive GO TO's complaint w.r.t. BASIC. (I should have snipped the succeeding paragraph.) I thought that you implied that BASIC tends to give you bad code because of all the GO TO's, in contradiction to your claim about bad code coming solely from programmers. And can you write good code using MS- DOS? It seems to me that always blaming the programmer regardless of what language he is stuck with is like blaming a rescue worker for failing a rescue regardless of what equipment he has to work with (say a fireman armed with a single fire extinguisher vs. a fire truck with working hydrant). As to appropriateness of different languages for different purposes (as mentioned by another poster), in physics from 1983 through 1991 I used FORTRAN to write programs to analyze data (as did most physicists at the time -- I don't know what they use now!). Would another language been as good or better? Of course there's code for analyzing experimental data, and other code for performing theoretical calculations. AEF Thanks! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:34:02 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: AEF wrote: > Kochan in the mid-90's. So can you please give an example of a > descriptor and its use in C? #include unsigned char chocolate_buffer[80]; $DESCRIPTOR(chocolate_desc,chocolate_buffer); This setups up a string descriptor and populates it. it is equivalent to: > /* > * Fixed-Length Descriptor: > */ > struct dsc$descriptor_s > { > unsigned short dsc$w_length; /* length of data item in bytes, > or if dsc$b_dtype is DSC$K_DTYPE_V, bits, > or if dsc$b_dtype is DSC$K_DTYPE_P, digits (4 bits each) */ > unsigned char dsc$b_dtype; /* data type code */ > unsigned char dsc$b_class; /* descriptor class code = DSC$K_CLASS_S */ > char *dsc$a_pointer; /* address of first byte of data storage */ > }; > struct dsc$descriptor_s chocolate_desc = { sizeof(chocolate_buffer) -1 , DSC$K_DTYPE_T, DSC$K_CLASS_S, chocolate_buffer }; thereafter: chocolate_desc.dsc$a_pointer -> pointer to chocolate_buffer ; chocolate_desc.dsc$w_length -> short int containing the value 79 ; you can also do $DESCRIPTOR(mydate_desc,"01-APR-2008 03:47:23.78"); and it automatically sets the descriptor to the *read-only* constant containing a text representation of the time. (with ANSI-C, constants became read-only). You can then feed this to SYS$BINTIM which will convert this time value to a quadword binary value. It is when you use constants that the "sizeof(string) - 1" is important since sizeof(string) includes the null charracter at the end of the string, but the actual data ends at one byte before that. If you are passing a descriptor to a subroutine which will populate it, the length needs to be the allocated length. If you will pass a descriptor to a subroutine that will read the data (like SYS$BINTIM), then you need to set the length to the actual string length. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 19:21:46 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:13:21 -0700, AEF wrote: > On Sep 23, 7:34 pm, Michael Kraemer wrote: >> Tom Linden schrieb: >> >> > Our PL/I the bounds checking is done in the prolog, when needed >> (*-extents >> > for example) otherwise as inline code and that you would have a hard >> > time trashing. >> >> Me thinks the achilles heel still is the descriptor. >> Trash it and the bounds check is toast. >> In the old times we used array descriptor modification deliberately >> to morph e.g. 4-dim arrays into 1-dim (and back) to allow >> for easier calculation loops. > > Please excuse my ignorance, but can someone please provide an example > of a "descriptor"? I've been using only DCL for years and used FORTRAN > back in the 80's and 90's and don't recall what this descriptor thing > is and didn't find anything on the Net about it (found all sort of > other descriptor stuff). > Descriptor is likely a Digital term, not sure, you will also find them referred to in the literature as dope vectors. > Thanks! > > [...] > > AEF > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:22:50 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <46F71F7A.2090601@comcast.net> AEF wrote: > On Sep 23, 8:34 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: > >>AEF wrote: >> >>>On Sep 23, 7:34 pm, Michael Kraemer wrote: >> >>>>Tom Linden schrieb: >>> >>>>>Our PL/I the bounds checking is done in the prolog, when needed (*-extents >>>>>for example) otherwise as inline code and that you would have a hard >>>>>time trashing. >>>> >>>>Me thinks the achilles heel still is the descriptor. >>>>Trash it and the bounds check is toast. >>>>In the old times we used array descriptor modification deliberately >>>>to morph e.g. 4-dim arrays into 1-dim (and back) to allow >>>>for easier calculation loops. >>> >>>Please excuse my ignorance, but can someone please provide an example >>>of a "descriptor"? I've been using only DCL for years and used FORTRAN >>>back in the 80's and 90's and don't recall what this descriptor thing >>>is and didn't find anything on the Net about it (found all sort of >>>other descriptor stuff). >> >>>Thanks! >> >>>[...] >> >>>AEF >> >>A descriptor is a data structure that describes something; in this case >>it describes how data is stored. You can look up details in the VMS >>programming documentation. A typical descriptor would have a code that >>says what KIND of descriptor it is, followed by things like the starting >>address, number of dimensions and size of each, etc, etc, etc. >> >>It's a low level thing that you'll find in Macro and C. Fortran >>conceals the sordid details pretty well. > > > I forgot to mention that I have some familiarity with C. I actually > worked a good part of the way through "Programming in [ANSI] C" by > Kochan in the mid-90's. So can you please give an example of a > descriptor and its use in C? > > Thanks! > I no longer have the documentation on my bookshelf! Sorry about that. Try the HP web site where the VMS manuals live. It's in there somewhere! http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/6528/6528pro_001.html might be a good place to start. Or google for "DSC$DESCRIPTOR_S site:hp.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:03:32 -0700 From: "David P. Murphy" Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190606612.172124.98240@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Sep 23, 10:25 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: >> And decriptors lack the ability to store both the size-allocated, and >> size-currently-used. This would have been very neat to have when you >> call some subroutine which would then update the "size-currently-used" >> field with the size of the string that was written to that buffer. As it >> stands, you need to supply a different argument so the subroutine can >> pass back that value. (or in the case of $QIO, look at the io status >> block once the operation has completed). > ISTR that there are many types of descriptor There are indeed many "descriptor" structures. > and one is for dynamic strings. It provides the starting address, > the maximum length, and the current length. Not quite. The "dynamic" and "varying" string descriptors both had the same initial structure as the "static": short length char type char class pointer data The difference is that "data" does not point to the first byte of text; it points to the address of a short which contains the number-of-bytes-currently-valid . . . the first byte of text immediately follows that short. It would have been much more convenient to have that count as a separate member of the structure. ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:15:04 GMT From: "Scott" Subject: Re: Little Alpha I learned on is up... Message-ID: "FrankS" wrote in message news:1190493263.871673.284830@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com... > On Sep 22, 10:36 am, "Paul Raulerson" wrote: >> on eBay at this URL. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem >> > ADME:L:LCA:US:1123> &item=200155289131&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123 > > This is the machine you were having problems with the CD-ROM? And you > were insisting VMS didn't support the drive? > > Yet, in the eBay listing you acknowledge that VMS was never qalified > for that system at all, let alone the CD-ROM drive. > > > no... he was having trouble with the 4 mm tape drive which he clearly states in his Ebay listing. if you are going to be so hypercritical, perhaps you should have your facts right. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:49:13 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Lock problem with SAMBA/NMBD Message-ID: In article , Albrecht Schlosser writes: > > >Martin Vorlaender wrote: > >> Albrecht Schlosser wrote: >>> Volker Halle wrote: >>>> You can use the File-ID field in the F11B$S >>>> resource name to find out about the filename involved. >>> I can't see anything obvious :-( Can you tell me how to >>> find the file-ID ? >> >> $ MCR DFU SEARCH /FID= > >Thanks for this, but this is not my problem. > >The question is, how to find the _file-ID_ from the lock >info. ??? The file-ID is part of the file serialization lock name. Here's a little tutorial to help you find the file ID from the LOCK or the RESOURCE block and how to trace it back to the file name itself. I don't know if this is what you are asking or not; however, it doesn't hurt to know how to derive this stuff regardless. Here is an example: From the SDA session... Resource Database ----------------- RSB: FFFFFFFF.3E686580 GGMODE: NL Status: VALID Parent RSB: FFFFFFFF.7FF94D80 CGMODE: NL Sub-RSB count: 0 FGMODE: NL Lock Count: 1 RQSEQNM: 0000 BLKAST count: 0 CSID: 00000000 (AXPBOX) 4D57 s $ B 1 1 F ___/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ Resource: 4D577324 42313146 F11B$sWM Valblk: 00000001 00000001 (rvn) (nmx) _/_/ Length 10 00000000 00000000 ........ 00000000 00000000 Kernel mode 00000000 00000000 ........ System 00000000 00000000 ........ Seqnum: 00000148 You can use the SDA syntax: SDA> SHOW LOCK/NAME=("F11B$s",004D57,0) SDA> SHOW RESOURCE/NAME=("F11B$s",004D57,0) to fine any particular File Serialization LOCK or RESOUCE. You can translate these values into a file ID using: (4D57,0,(nmx)(rvn)) The file ID numbers are shown in decimal if you issue DIRECTORY/FILE so change the values to decimal: SDA> EVALUATE 4D57 Hex = 00000000.00004D57 Decimal = 19799 WRK_S_RESULT+00D57 The file ID associated with this file is (19799,?,0) The file serialization lock is a sublock of the Volume Allocation Lock. You can find this with: SDA> SHOW RESOURCE/ADDRESS=FFFFFFFF7FF94D80 (taken from the parent RSB field of the above) Resource Database ----------------- RSB: FFFFFFFF.7FF94D80 GGMODE: CR Status: DIRENTR VALID Parent RSB: 00000000.00000000 CGMODE: CR Sub-RSB count: 965 FGMODE: CR Lock Count: 1 RQSEQNM: 0029 BLKAST count: 1 CSID: 00000000 (AXPBOX) Resource: 704F7624 42313146 F11B$vOp Valblk: 00456FE6 240C0015 Length 18 50584153 4D566E65 enVMSAXP 051D0E27 000171A1 Kernel mode 00000000 00003776 v7...... System 00000000 00000000 ........ Seqnum: 0006F63F F11B$vOpenVMSAXPv7 (F11B$v is the prefix for the Volume Serialization Lock and the volume name is: OpenVMSAXPv7) Now you know on which volume (ie. OpenVMSAXPv7) the file resides. $ SHOW LOGICAL "DISK$OpenVMSAXPv7" "DISK$OpenVMSAXPv7" = "DSA0:" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) $ SHOW DEVICE DSA0: Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt DSA0: Mounted 0 OpenVMSAXPv7 4550630 896 1 $1$DKC100: (AXPBOX) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA0:) $1$DKD100: (AXPBOX) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA0:) If you need to find the file associated with the lock ID, you need to look at the INDEXF.SYS file of the volume. Dump the second block of the volume's INDEXF.SYS... $ DUMP/BLOCK=(START=2,COUNT=1) DSA0:[000000]INDEXF.SYS Dump of file DSA0:[000000]INDEXF.SYS;1 on 23-SEP-2007 14:27:37.64 File ID (1,1,0) End of file block 94625 / Allocated 512330 Virtual block number 2 (00000002), 512 (0200) bytes 00230201 011728F1 0000040A 00000001 ........ñ(....#. 000000 ^^^^-- cluster size 0007D01E 010F5833 008D006A 005A0002 ..Z.j...3X...Ð.. 000010 00010004 00000000 00000000 0009007E ~............... 000020 ^^^^--bitmap size ED7C566C 537DFE00 FA000000 00000000 .......ú.þ}SlV|í 000030 ... You will need the two values which are denoted. Using this equation, find the offset in the INDEXF.SYS file to the MFD header (000000.DIR) which is file ID (0,0,0). 4*(cluster size)+(bitmap size) In this example, that is: $ Y=4*%x23+%x7E $ SHOW SYMBOL Y Y = 266 Hex = 0000010A Octal = 00000000412 You can now find your file using this value and the file ID you obtained from SDA: $ Y=19799+266 (add the offset to your file ID) $ SHOW SYMBOL Y Y = 20065 Hex = 00004E61 Octal = 00000047141 $ DUMP/FILE_HEADER/BLOCK=(START=20065,COUNT=1) DSA0:[000000]INDEXF.SYS Dump of file DSA0:[000000]INDEXF.SYS;1 on 23-SEP-2007 14:35:41.75 File ID (1,1,0) End of file block 94625 / Allocated 512330 Virtual block number 20065 (00004E61), 512 (0200) bytes Header area Identification area offset: 40 Map area offset: 100 Access control area offset: 233 Reserved area offset: 255 Extension segment number: 0 Structure level and version: 2, 1 File identification: (19799,147,0) <-- full file ID Extension file identification: (0,0,0) VAX-11 RMS attributes Record type: Variable File organization: Sequential Record attributes: Implied carriage control Record size: 136 Highest block: 35 End of file block: 21 End of file byte: 214 Bucket size: 0 Fixed control area size: 0 Maximum record size: 255 Default extension size: 0 Global buffer count: 0 Directory version limit: 0 File characteristics: Caching attribute: Writethrough Map area words in use: 3 Access mode: 0 File owner UIC: [SYSMGTGRP,SYSTEM] File protection: S:RE, O:RWED, G:RE, W: Back link file identification: (6927,66,0) Journal control flags: Active recovery units: None File entry linkcount: 0 Highest block written: 21 Client attributes: None Identification area File name: LOGIN.COM;1 Revision number: 4 Creation date: 9-MAR-2007 17:14:04.53 Revision date: 5-SEP-2007 14:11:19.24 Expiration date: Backup date: Map area Retrieval pointers Count: 35 LBN: 11190935 $ DIRECTORY/FILE_ID SYS$MANAGER:LOGIN.COM Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR] LOGIN.COM;1 (19799,147,0) Total of 1 file. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:02:01 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: VMS Update Message-ID: <1190570521.664134.303440@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Sep 23, 12:53 pm, Neil Rieck wrote: > On Sep 22, 10:46 pm, David J Dachtera > wrote:> Neil Rieck wrote: > > [...snip...] > > > > > > With regard to wrapping URL's etc I have a suggestion for readers of > > > this newsgroup. > > > > For many years I had accessed "comp.os.vms" using "Outlook Express" > > > until my ISP declared that newsgroups were dead so they would be > > > shutting down port 119. > > > Consider inviting your ISP back into the 21st Century. > > My ISP is Bell Canada's Sympatico service. Major portions of this ISP > have slowly been taken over Microsoft (just clickinghttp://www.sympatico.ca > now takes you tohttp://sympatico.msn.ca/). [that famous funeral march -- I don't know the name of it -- it's slow and it's been in cartoons] > > 1) It is "my" belief that Bell Canada deferred much of the portal > maintenance to Microsoft in order to decrease their own expenses. Then > killing port 119 services at a later date was just another method to > further increase profits. On top of this, their main competitor > (http://www.Rogers.ca) had already dropped newsgroup support (citing > the volume of porn) so may be Bell Canada thought it was now safe to > drop this service too. On the flip side this idea could have come from > Microsoft. Hmmm. When I got my Dell PC in early 2000, it came with Dellnet dialup. It was actually pretty good for dialup! And it was good enough for me at the time. Then, at some point, msn came on the scene and it was going to change to Dellnet by MSN. Well, first I had to "upgrade" my connection software. Then pretty much at the moment of the handover things went to hell. Quite often I either couldn't check mail, couldn't surf the Net, or both! It was free for the first year so I slogged on. I kept complaining about it and at one point they told me that an upcoming software upgrade for my PC client would fix things. I forget when but at some point (before the free period ended, I think well before!) I reconsidered my options and decided to go with Verizon DSL. In addition to finally being able to watch video (barely sometimes!), reliability went way, way up. OTOH, one day much later (a year ago, I think) I lost service for an extended period of time. Then all the reboots and power-cycling and such failed to fix the situation. I ran the "Verizon Online support center" program and it said my modem was dead or something indicating a hardware problem -- I forget the exact error message. The support person (prob. in India) told me my modem cable was bad. Got a new cable. Still nothing. Then he said I need a new modem. So I bought a new DSL modem from them. Before hooking up the new modem I tried the old one one more time. It worked! It was had been an outage!!! Then I had to go through hell to get a refund after I returned the new modem (approx. 40 USD). I had to call them several times and each time they assured me they got it right. Other than that one fiasco, the service has been mostly pretty good. Oh, later I tried the "Verizon Online support center" program again while not connected to the Net and it said my modem was bad!!! What a POS!!! Talk about your bad code!!! As long as there's no active connection, this POS program says the hardware is down. Lovely. Anyway, if the reliability of your ISP suddenly goes way down, you'll know why! > 2) Others stated that lots of people were using port 119 to download > porn and some ISPs were constantly getting pulled into court whenever > an offender's PC was confiscated. So porn is totally illegal in Canada? > 3) Still others have stated that large companies have come under post > 9/11 pressure from both Canadian and US governments to eliminate > services (like newsgroups) which allowed free posting (we all know > that Sympatico would have been able force clients to enter a password > prior to each upload; but never let a logical alternative stand in the > way of paranoia). All the alternative newsgroup services I've tried DO > require me to log onto the server for up loading so may be there is > some truth to this. Recently on one of the light rail trains around here there were announcements strongly discouraging people from bringing backpacks, briefcases, etc. Hello? We're going to work. I'll leave analysis to the reader. > Before Y2K I was always searching for archived newsgroup advice from > you people athttp://www.deja.combut since then Deja.com is now > pointed to Google I have decided to usehttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/as my access to COV. > > NSR Google Groups has its problems, but it's the same at work as it is at home and it's free. On Friday, for a while, new posts were showing up as authors in the left panel but when you clicked one to read it there was nothing! They fixed that, but they haven't yet recovered the ones that got missed. So I missed a few posts in the "despair" thread and maybe a couple of other posts. I think I missed one of Norm's in his thread. AEF ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.521 ************************