INFO-VAX Tue, 16 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 565 Contents: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. U.S.U.S. Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. U.S.U.S. Re: CHECKSUM oddity? Re: CHECKSUM oddity? Re: CHECKSUM oddity? DECnet Phase IV CONFIGURATOR Re: Execute a command procedure from a detached process Re: Execute a command procedure from a detached process Re: HP reliability OpenVMS 30th Anniversary events in Australia OT: Mac and *BSD (was:Re: Bigger isn't always better!) Re: PROCESS_SCAN.COM (or an example of what DCL can do) Re: SAMBA/CIFS (Was:Re: Bigger isn't always better!) RE: SRVMISMATCH error fix available Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Re: Translating $Status Re: www.hp.com/go/openvms is still toast Re: www.hp.com/go/openvms is still toast Re: www.hp.com/go/openvms is still toast ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:05:41 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: <5dc46$4713abf6$cef8887a$15826@TEKSAVVY.COM> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > When the time comes to need to update the OS on a running system, VMS is > poised, with the loadable executive, to be modified to do so better than > any of the other mainstream OSs. Mr VAXman, what percentage of the VMS system manager population would have skills required to patch the running system with XDELTA to modify a device characteristic ? ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 2007 18:53:18 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: <5nhr8uFi92g7U1@mid.individual.net> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <5nhckjFicbvoU2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > {...snip...} >>Then youyr SAMBA is not setup correctly. We have been using to share >>files between our Unix based fileservers and Windows boxes since the >>days when we ran NT 3.51 one here. I have even used SAMBA with VMS >>(when we still had it) without any really problems. > > I was talking about VMS and OS X. From a unix shell under OS X I can > access a mapped "share" but from the OS X Finder, it is problematic. Sounds like a OS X Finder problem then. Solution to that is dump the Mac and get a real computer. :-) Seriously, everyone seems to have fun bashing MS for not abiding by standards that allow for easy interaction and yet Apple hapily does the same with impunity with nary a complaint. (I have one Professor who uses a Mac and it has frequently delayed the deployment of an advancement in our infrastructure because it does not play well with others!!) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 2007 13:56:56 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: In article <5nhc5tFicbvoU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > In article , > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> >> We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month. >> The machine would go down, > ..... >> A reboot is scheduled for this evening. > > Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted? They at least need to be rebooted to test any alterations to the startup command procedure. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:02:43 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: <1192474963.062051.114380@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 10:35 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article , > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > > > > We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month. > > The machine would go down, > ..... > > A reboot is scheduled for this evening. > > Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted? You thought wrong!!! > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include One of the very few sigs worth such repetition. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:33:01 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 006B662785257375_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu wrote on 10/15/2007 10:35:41 AM: > In article , > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > > > We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month. > > The machine would go down, > ..... > > A reboot is scheduled for this evening. > > Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted? Well, the point is that an OpenVMS cluster production system can be configured so that the applications on it can stay up over upgrades or even physical moves of hardware. Not all VMS systems are so configured. No one ever said any one machine would never need to be shutdown or rebooted who know what he or she was saying. ..but you know that. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include --=_alternative 006B662785257375_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu wrote on 10/15/2007 10:35:41 AM:

> In article <hj2Qi.2$mN.0@newsfe12.lga>,
>    VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
> >
> >                        We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month.
> > The machine would go down,
> .....
> >           A reboot is scheduled for this evening.
>
> Ummm....  I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted?

Well, the point is that an OpenVMS cluster production system can be
configured so that the applications on it can stay up over upgrades or
even physical moves of hardware.  Not all VMS systems are so configured.
No one ever said any one machine would never need to be shutdown or
rebooted who know what he or she was saying.

...but you know that.

>
> bill
>
> --
> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
> bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton   |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  
--=_alternative 006B662785257375_=-- ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 2007 19:45:10 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: <5nhua6FigdcpU1@mid.individual.net> In article <1192474963.062051.114380@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > On Oct 15, 10:35 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> In article , >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> >> >> >> > We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month. >> > The machine would go down, >> ..... >> > A reboot is scheduled for this evening. >> >> Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted? > > You thought wrong!!! Well, then I guess people here should stop pointing that out as one of the big differences between Unix and VMS. :-) > >> >> bill >> >> -- >> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >> b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >> University of Scranton | >> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > > One of the very few sigs worth such repetition. > I can't claim it as original but I have used it for a long time. Don't remember who I got it from. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:55:28 -0000 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: <1192481728.809772.101830@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 2:45 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <1192474963.062051.114...@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, > AEF writes: > > > On Oct 15, 10:35 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> In article , > >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > >> > We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month. > >> > The machine would go down, > >> ..... > >> > A reboot is scheduled for this evening. > > >> Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted? > > > You thought wrong!!! > > Well, then I guess people here should stop pointing that out as one of the > big differences between Unix and VMS. :-) > > > > >> bill > > >> -- > >> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > >> b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > >> University of Scranton | > >> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > > > One of the very few sigs worth such repetition. > > I can't claim it as original but I have used it for a long time. > Don't remember who I got it from. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include The vast majority of our, and our customer VMS systems, not clustered, or clustered in non-redundant non-survivable fashion (small fry!) go down and reboot due to power failures. Thats it. Sure, the rare upgrade, but other than that, they run. None of the PC servers can come close. The one customer who runs commercial *nix on a server platform averages 180 day uptimes between reboot-requiring issues. Its an older system, not upgraded in several years, but has never been reliable. As a sample size of one its not definitive, but it sure has made the one customer less than happy (even when we point out their wintel stuff is even worse, to which they reply "but that's expected!" de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. li-ber-ty (li' ber tee) n. An armed sheep contesting the vote. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:59:08 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: <8660a3a10710151559m711e81aaoe2c99c8ce76994e4@mail.gmail.com> On 10/13/07, VAXman-@sendspamhere.org wrote: > This past summer I helped a customer to upgrade to VMS V8.3. It took > quite a bit of time because they are a 24x7 operation and there is > very little downtime. We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month. > The machine would go down, we'd back up the system disk and then update > to V8.3. On 3 of the 4 occasions, the system was restored to its prior > version as something was discovered that would not function under V8.3. > > We finally got all of the necessary software bits updates, ironed out > all of the wrinkles and they had been running on V8.3 since Labor Day > weekend. Advanced Server was the biggest PITA! > > Yesterday morning I reveived a call from a panicking system manager. > One of the apps they rely upon just stopped working. I asked him the > typical questions trying to ascertain if they have changed anything on > the system. Of course, the answer was "No!" They were in a panic and > were ready to revert back to the old system version. I convinced them > that that was stupid because the app was working up until yesterday. > > I was not familiar with the app in question. About an hour later, I > received a call from the system manager and I was told that one of the > users had been logged in for several days and the app still worked for > them. Hmm. So we set out to see what was different. I suspected a > logical name change or something similar but that was not the problem. > > I was given instructions on how to access this app. So, I logged into > their system and then I decided I would log in again and log everything. > I issued a $ SET HOST/LOG 0 from the telnet session I'd created when I > logged in. He walked me through the app and it worked!!! Hmm! What > was different from my SET HOST session and my TELNET session that would > cause such an issue. > > I told them that logging in with the SET HOST 0 worked, so they used it > as a user work-around until I had an answer. I needed to leave and go > on an errand. While driving, it dawned on as to what their problem was. > > My telnet session created device TNA13301: Their software app was still > assuming a maximum of 9999. When I returned home, I logged into their > system and set DEVICE_NAMING to 4 and edited MODPARAMS.DAT to reflect the > same. > > I then informed the system manager there of my supposition that it was > the length of the device name causing the problem and that I set their > DEVICE_NAMING SYSGEN param to 4 to restore the old limit at 9999. They > were not convinced. So, I took it upon myself to use my favorite DELTA > hack and I patched the TNA0 UCB$W_UNIT_SEED to 1. I logged in again and > now I had TNA5: (several logins already!) and the app worked! I reported > this and they were delighted. Not only did they no longer need the double > login work-around but they didn't need a reboot in the middle of their > workday! A reboot is scheduled for this evening. > > > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html > I thought that DEVICE_NAMING had to do with SCSI port allocation classes. At least that's what it's done when I've used it in the past. Kindly explain. 8.3 Alpha or Integrity? And what version of TCP/IP? Thanks, WWWebb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:13:10 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: In article <5dc46$4713abf6$cef8887a$15826@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > > >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> When the time comes to need to update the OS on a running system, VMS is >> poised, with the loadable executive, to be modified to do so better than >> any of the other mainstream OSs. > > >Mr VAXman, what percentage of the VMS system manager population would >have skills required to patch the running system with XDELTA to modify a >device characteristic ? From my statistical sample space of system managers in charge of the systems here... 100%! ;) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:14:07 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: <3vSQi.871$l%4.540@newsfe12.lga> In article <5nhr8uFi92g7U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >In article , > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> In article <5nhckjFicbvoU2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> {...snip...} >>>Then youyr SAMBA is not setup correctly. We have been using to share >>>files between our Unix based fileservers and Windows boxes since the >>>days when we ran NT 3.51 one here. I have even used SAMBA with VMS >>>(when we still had it) without any really problems. >> >> I was talking about VMS and OS X. From a unix shell under OS X I can >> access a mapped "share" but from the OS X Finder, it is problematic. > >Sounds like a OS X Finder problem then. Solution to that is dump the >Mac and get a real computer. :-) > >Seriously, everyone seems to have fun bashing MS for not abiding by >standards that allow for easy interaction and yet Apple hapily does >the same with impunity with nary a complaint. (I have one Professor >who uses a Mac and it has frequently delayed the deployment of an >advancement in our infrastructure because it does not play well with >others!!) In their defence, SMB is a M$ piece of shit protocol! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:21:27 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: In article <8660a3a10710151559m711e81aaoe2c99c8ce76994e4@mail.gmail.com>, "William Webb" writes: > > >On 10/13/07, VAXman-@sendspamhere.org wrote: >> This past summer I helped a customer to upgrade to VMS V8.3. It took >> quite a bit of time because they are a 24x7 operation and there is >> very little downtime. We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month. >> The machine would go down, we'd back up the system disk and then update >> to V8.3. On 3 of the 4 occasions, the system was restored to its prior >> version as something was discovered that would not function under V8.3. >> >> We finally got all of the necessary software bits updates, ironed out >> all of the wrinkles and they had been running on V8.3 since Labor Day >> weekend. Advanced Server was the biggest PITA! >> >> Yesterday morning I reveived a call from a panicking system manager. >> One of the apps they rely upon just stopped working. I asked him the >> typical questions trying to ascertain if they have changed anything on >> the system. Of course, the answer was "No!" They were in a panic and >> were ready to revert back to the old system version. I convinced them >> that that was stupid because the app was working up until yesterday. >> >> I was not familiar with the app in question. About an hour later, I >> received a call from the system manager and I was told that one of the >> users had been logged in for several days and the app still worked for >> them. Hmm. So we set out to see what was different. I suspected a >> logical name change or something similar but that was not the problem. >> >> I was given instructions on how to access this app. So, I logged into >> their system and then I decided I would log in again and log everything. >> I issued a $ SET HOST/LOG 0 from the telnet session I'd created when I >> logged in. He walked me through the app and it worked!!! Hmm! What >> was different from my SET HOST session and my TELNET session that would >> cause such an issue. >> >> I told them that logging in with the SET HOST 0 worked, so they used it >> as a user work-around until I had an answer. I needed to leave and go >> on an errand. While driving, it dawned on as to what their problem was. >> >> My telnet session created device TNA13301: Their software app was still >> assuming a maximum of 9999. When I returned home, I logged into their >> system and set DEVICE_NAMING to 4 and edited MODPARAMS.DAT to reflect the >> same. >> >> I then informed the system manager there of my supposition that it was >> the length of the device name causing the problem and that I set their >> DEVICE_NAMING SYSGEN param to 4 to restore the old limit at 9999. They >> were not convinced. So, I took it upon myself to use my favorite DELTA >> hack and I patched the TNA0 UCB$W_UNIT_SEED to 1. I logged in again and >> now I had TNA5: (several logins already!) and the app worked! I reported >> this and they were delighted. Not only did they no longer need the double >> login work-around but they didn't need a reboot in the middle of their >> workday! A reboot is scheduled for this evening. >> >> >> >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >> >> http://tmesis.com/drat.html >> > >I thought that DEVICE_NAMING had to do with SCSI port allocation classes. >At least that's what it's done when I've used it in the past. > >Kindly explain. > >8.3 Alpha or Integrity? >And what version of TCP/IP? > >Thanks, > >WWWebb $ MCR SYSGEN HELP SYS_PARAM DEVICE_NAMING Sys_Parameters DEVICE_NAMING (Alpha and I64) DEVICE_NAMING is a bit mask indicating whether port allocation classes are used in forming SCSI device names. Following is the bit definition: Bit Definition 0 If 1, enable new naming. 1 Must be 0. This bit is reserved for use by HP. 2 If 1, cloned device unit numbers wrap after 9999. For more information about port allocation classes, see HP OpenVMS Cluster Systems. I forget where I read it but bit 2 controls the device naming in the latest TCPIP Services too. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:14:38 -0400 From: "Jilly" Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: <47140283$0$9717$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com> "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:5dc46$4713abf6$cef8887a$15826@TEKSAVVY.COM... > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> When the time comes to need to update the OS on a running system, VMS is >> poised, with the loadable executive, to be modified to do so better than >> any of the other mainstream OSs. > > > Mr VAXman, what percentage of the VMS system manager population would have > skills required to patch the running system with XDELTA to modify a device > characteristic ? > I couldn't begin to give you a percentage but I know I've trained my share of them at the Customer Bootcamp on how to use XDELTA. One of the utilities that a 'good' system mangler should be familiar with. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:15:47 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: <1192493747.261116.200620@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 3:45 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <1192474963.062051.114...@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, > AEF writes: > > > On Oct 15, 10:35 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> In article , > >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > >> > We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month. > >> > The machine would go down, > >> ..... > >> > A reboot is scheduled for this evening. > > >> Ummm.... I thought VMS systems never need to be shutdown or rebooted? > > > You thought wrong!!! > > Well, then I guess people here should stop pointing that out as one of the > big differences between Unix and VMS. :-) Did anyone specifically put just that way? > > > >> bill > > >> -- > >> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > >> b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > >> University of Scranton | > >> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > > > One of the very few sigs worth such repetition. > > I can't claim it as original but I have used it for a long time. > Don't remember who I got it from. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include AEF ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2007 00:51:46 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: <5nig92FhvbibU1@mid.individual.net> In article <3vSQi.871$l%4.540@newsfe12.lga>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <5nhr8uFi92g7U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> >>In article , >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>> In article <5nhckjFicbvoU2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> {...snip...} >>>>Then youyr SAMBA is not setup correctly. We have been using to share >>>>files between our Unix based fileservers and Windows boxes since the >>>>days when we ran NT 3.51 one here. I have even used SAMBA with VMS >>>>(when we still had it) without any really problems. >>> >>> I was talking about VMS and OS X. From a unix shell under OS X I can >>> access a mapped "share" but from the OS X Finder, it is problematic. >> >>Sounds like a OS X Finder problem then. Solution to that is dump the >>Mac and get a real computer. :-) >> >>Seriously, everyone seems to have fun bashing MS for not abiding by >>standards that allow for easy interaction and yet Apple hapily does >>the same with impunity with nary a complaint. (I have one Professor >>who uses a Mac and it has frequently delayed the deployment of an >>advancement in our infrastructure because it does not play well with >>others!!) > > In their defence, SMB is a M$ piece of shit protocol! I hope you weren't misled into thinking that I was talking just SMB when I said the Mac doesn't play well with others. It seems to do an equally bad job of things like WPA-Enterprise, Radius, well, pretty much anything wireless beyonf plain vanilla. And then we have had cases where trying to use IMAP resulted in trashing the users mailbox. Need I go on? No reason to bother. The Mac is religion and nothing could convince its users to try something more practical. Like some other OSes I can think of. (Of course, it is even funnier with the Mac as they started out with a working FreeBSD userland and then, for the most part, broke it.) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:35:06 GMT From: Alfred Falk Subject: Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Message-ID: Dirk Munk wrote in news:fer2d1$dv1$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl: > ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: >> this is what Hillary has in store for you ... >> >> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C300939%2C00.html >> > It seems cross-border help in these areas is something new for Fox. I It may be something new for Fox. It's not new to the medical system in Canada or the U.S. It's been going on for years, and as far as I know, both directions. There are a number of antecedant conditions at play here that have created facility and staff shortages in some areas. (I won't go into that, except to say that it oddly enough is worst in areas that have had relatively right-wing provincial governments hostile to medicare.) Usually such transfers are east-west to other Canadian provinces, but Alberta is itself overloaded and Vancouver is a _lot_ closer to Seattle than Calgary or Edmonton, not to mention Saskatoon, Winnipeg or Toronto. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- A L B E R T A Alfred Falk falk@arc.ab.ca R E S E A R C H Information Systems Dept (780)450-5185 C O U N C I L 250 Karl Clark Road Edmonton, Alberta, Canada http://www.arc.ab.ca/ T6N 1E4 http://outside.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:02:23 -0400 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Message-ID: <4713F17F.7030305@comcast.net> ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: [...] > Jefferson is the fool that messed up the constitution! > > Allowing lawyers to select supreme court and federal > judges instead of the people was a HUGE mistake! > > Jefferson was just another liberal ... the people are > too dum to pick judges so us brilliant lawyers must > do it for them ... Well, we certainly know at least one US Citizen who is too "dum" to pick a judge! [...] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:55:01 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Message-ID: <1192503301.095464.194540@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 7:58 am, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Oct 14, 6:53 pm, Neil Rieck wrote: > [...snip...] > > > You, sir, are the idiot. And anyone who adopts a left/right point of > > view before they know the issues and/or candidates are the ones who > > are confused. Only someone in the middle can borrow ideas from each > > side. BTW, I am more or less quoting Thomas Jefferson here. > > > > NSR > > > Jefferson is the fool that messed up the constitution! > > Allowing lawyers to select supreme court and federal > judges instead of the people was a HUGE mistake! > > Jefferson was just another liberal ... the people are > too dum to pick judges so us brilliant lawyers must > do it for them ... > > now we have judges legislating from the bench ... > > real smart that Jefferson ... > For a guy that was so disliked, he sure has a large memorial on the Washington mall. Now you keep bringing up LIBERAL as if it is a bad thing so let me bring up a few CONSERVATIVE points: Watergate Iran-Contra US Voter Fraud (twice) Iraq Defence Policy Board WMD Halliburton Scooter-Scandal (re: Valerie Plame) Carlyle Group Yeah, the conservatives have a spotless track record... NSR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:01:24 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Message-ID: <07101523012428_202002A8@antinode.org> From: Ron Johnson [... drivel omitted ...] Please explain what you believe is the purpose of comp.os.vms, and how this material fits it. > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! Someone please find me a fish. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 2007 21:15:35 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Message-ID: <1192493842.925083.107110@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> On Oct 11, 11:06 pm, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > In article <1192145979.344608.146...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: > > this is what Hillary has in store for you ... > > Please not post URLs without explaining the relevance to VMS. > > Please do not post off-topic URLs. Hey Larry, I posted a quite on-topic question about the CONFIGURATOR and no one seems the slightest bit interested! You and other off-topic bashers and others are welcome to contribute to my CONFIGURATOR thread. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:41:24 +0200 From: Dirk Munk Subject: Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. U.S.U.S. Message-ID: Alfred Falk wrote: > Dirk Munk wrote in > news:fer2d1$dv1$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl: > >> ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: >>> this is what Hillary has in store for you ... >>> >>> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C300939%2C00.html >>> >> It seems cross-border help in these areas is something new for Fox. I > > It may be something new for Fox. It's not new to the medical system in > Canada or the U.S. It's been going on for years, and as far as I know, > both directions. There are a number of antecedant conditions at play > here that have created facility and staff shortages in some areas. (I > won't go into that, except to say that it oddly enough is worst in areas > that have had relatively right-wing provincial governments hostile to > medicare.) Usually such transfers are east-west to other Canadian > provinces, but Alberta is itself overloaded and Vancouver is a _lot_ > closer to Seattle than Calgary or Edmonton, not to mention Saskatoon, > Winnipeg or Toronto. > Some time ago I saw a movie about Tommy Douglas, the founder of Medicare. In fact I saw it several times. Impressive, very very impressive. The list of his achievements at the end of the movie almost didn't end. Many of todays politicians can take an example of his devotian to the people of his state and country. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:50:30 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. U.S.U.S. Message-ID: On 10/15/07 21:55, Neil Rieck wrote: > On Oct 15, 7:58 am, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: >> On Oct 14, 6:53 pm, Neil Rieck wrote: >> > [...snip...] >>> You, sir, are the idiot. And anyone who adopts a left/right point of >>> view before they know the issues and/or candidates are the ones who >>> are confused. Only someone in the middle can borrow ideas from each >>> side. BTW, I am more or less quoting Thomas Jefferson here. >>> >>> NSR >> >> Jefferson is the fool that messed up the constitution! >> >> Allowing lawyers to select supreme court and federal >> judges instead of the people was a HUGE mistake! >> >> Jefferson was just another liberal ... the people are >> too dum to pick judges so us brilliant lawyers must >> do it for them ... >> >> now we have judges legislating from the bench ... >> >> real smart that Jefferson ... >> > > For a guy that was so disliked, he sure has a large memorial on the > Washington mall. Now you keep bringing up LIBERAL as if it is a bad > thing so let me bring up a few CONSERVATIVE points: > > Watergate Sandy "Sticky Fingers" Berger > Iran-Contra > US Voter Fraud (twice) Like Democrats have never committed voter fraud. > Iraq Viet Nam > Defence Policy Board ???? > WMD Lie or error? http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/iraq172.htm Copyright 1999 Facing tough questions from America's heartland, the Clinton administration's foreign policy team tried to make the case Wednesday for U.S. military action against Iraq. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright called Iraq's disputed weapons arsenal the "greatest security threat we face." [snip] "Saddam has delayed, he has duped, he had deceived the inspectors from the very first day on the job," Cohen said [snip] It is Saddam's refusal to permit unrestricted U.N. inspections of his nation's weapons arsenal that is at the heart of the dispute. [snip] "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has 10 times since 1983," Berger said. [snip] "In the 21st century, the community of nations may see more and more of this very kind of threat that Iraq poses now, the rogue state. ... If we fail to respond, Saddam and all those who follow will believe that they can threaten the security of a vital region with impunity. But if we act now as one, we will send a clear message to would-be tyrants and terrorists that we will do what it takes to protect our security and our freedom in this new era." > Halliburton Loral. > Scooter-Scandal (re: Valerie Plame) In Washington, her secret job was about as secret as a whore walking a street corner. > Carlyle Group > > Yeah, the conservatives have a spotless track record... As spotless as the Democrats. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:18:01 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: CHECKSUM oddity? Message-ID: In article , briggs@encompasserve.org writes: > In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > Create a backup saveset. Create an "identical" saveset (i.e. issue the > > command again). Get the checksums of the savesets. They are the same. > > $ DIFFERENCES and $ BACKUP/COMPARE say they are different. > > > > There is an obvious difference: the Date: field shown by BACKUP/LIST. > > However, this is a date internal to the backup saveset, not the creation > > or modifcation date of the saveset. Thus, I don't think it is a date in > > the file header (which CHECKSUM should and does ignore, since a primary > > use is to make sure that files were transferred properly). > > > > Who can explain this puzzle? > > Repeat your test with $ BACKUP /GROUP=0 That was it! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:58:29 -0000 From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: CHECKSUM oddity? Message-ID: <1192478309.378194.130890@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 3:18 pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article , > > bri...@encompasserve.org writes: > > In article , hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > > Create a backup saveset. Create an "identical" saveset (i.e. issue the > > > command again). Get the checksums of the savesets. They are the same. > > > $ DIFFERENCES and $ BACKUP/COMPARE say they are different. : > > Repeat your test with $ BACKUP /GROUP=0 > > That was it! Cute. Checksum uses a simple XOR on the longword in the data records for the file, adding in any odd remaining remaining bytes if present. The backup redundancy group used that same formula resulting in the same output for files being different (albeit in the header area). A similar confusion can arise from the fact that CHECKSUM (as well as DIFFERENCE) use RECORD IO to get the data. So you can CONVERT and indexed file to sequential and get no differences reported and get an equal checksum where you and I know that the on disk bits for those files are rather different. Backup/compare finds those differences (very verbosely so) Cheers, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 2007 16:21:18 -0500 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: CHECKSUM oddity? Message-ID: In article , briggs@encompasserve.org writes: > In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >> Create a backup saveset. Create an "identical" saveset (i.e. issue the >> command again). Get the checksums of the savesets. They are the same. >> $ DIFFERENCES and $ BACKUP/COMPARE say they are different. >> >> There is an obvious difference: the Date: field shown by BACKUP/LIST. >> However, this is a date internal to the backup saveset, not the creation >> or modifcation date of the saveset. Thus, I don't think it is a date in >> the file header (which CHECKSUM should and does ignore, since a primary >> use is to make sure that files were transferred properly). >> >> Who can explain this puzzle? > > Repeat your test with $ BACKUP /GROUP=0 > > VMS CHECKSUM is not a cryptographically secure hash function. In > particular, you're pretty well guaranteed to get a collision when > the application creating your data file is actively trying to > make the XOR of a batch of records equal to zero. This can be true of CRC's as well. The CRC16 calculation on 9-track tapes was _appended_ to the data as it was written to tape. The result was that when the CRC algorithm was applied to the full string of bits read from the tape later on, the outcome was zero. [Simple enough to explain if you understand that while CRC's are thought of as remainders from polynomial divisions with coefficients being modulo 2 integers, the reality is that they are essentially ordinary binary division simplified by discarding carries/borrows. Since such a polynomial modulo two is its own negative (-RMDR(X)=RMDR(X)), we are appending the negative of the remainder to the original input, and if the division is redone, the remainder from the initial portion cancels the RMDR(X) = -RMDR(X) we appended. [To make this all work, I think the original calculation needed to have 16 zero bits appended during the division phase]] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:50:44 -0700 From: AEF Subject: DECnet Phase IV CONFIGURATOR Message-ID: <1192477844.406279.161780@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com> Does anyone use the CONFIGURATOR? I figured out how to get this to work. You need to add AUDIT privilege to the installed image NICONFIG.EXE. The bug is in STARTNET.COM which assigns it only the two other privs it needs: SYSNAM and LOG_IO. I noticed that on DECUServe it is also missing the AUDIT priv which is a more recent version of VMS than what I'm using (V7.2-1 Alpha vs. 6.2 VAX). Am I the only one who's tried to use this feature? Has it been fixed in the most recent releases? Thanks! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:53:21 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: Execute a command procedure from a detached process Message-ID: <1192485201.923845.294680@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Oct 14, 6:56 pm, Neil Rieck wrote: > On Oct 14, 11:16 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: *** repost *** $! $! $run sys$system:loginout - /process_name ="Advocate_Srvr" - /uic =[346,6] - /noswap - /noresource_wait - /priv=all - /input= CSMIS$com:advocate_server_init.com - /output= CSMIS$log:advocate_server.out - /ERROR= CSMIS$log:advocate_server.err - /prior= 4 $! $! BTW, the only reason for doing this is to attach a CLI (command language interpretor) so that certain calls like LIB$ will work. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario,Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:15:22 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Execute a command procedure from a detached process Message-ID: Neil Rieck writes: >*** repost *** >$! >$! >$run sys$system:loginout - > /ERROR= CSMIS$log:advocate_server.err - >$! >$! Note that DCL does something funky with SYS$ERROR when starting up. Usually harmless, but if you go looking for CSMIS$log:advocate_server.err and don't see it, that's why. >BTW, the only reason for doing this is to attach a CLI (command >language interpretor) so that certain calls like LIB$ will work. Not all LIB$, just a few of them, such as LIB$SPAWN and LIB$SET_LOGICAL and things like CLI$PRESENT. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:17:41 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: HP reliability Message-ID: Richard Maher wrote: > Which one was you then? Maybe you were thinking of Ken Farmer's OpenVMS.org website. He's kind enough to let me stash stuff at http://www2.openvms.org/kparris/ that I think might be useful to others. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:04:54 +0930 From: Jeremy Begg Subject: OpenVMS 30th Anniversary events in Australia Message-ID: <4714234E.8010409@vsm.com.au> Hi, I am coordinating two dinners in Australia to celebrate 30 years of OpenVMS. Those of you who will be in Sydney or Adelaide on the evening of October 25 should drop me a line by email to to reserve your place, as soon as possible. (No need to respond if you've already contacted me.) Regards, Jeremy Begg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:08:43 -0400 From: bradhamilton Subject: OT: Mac and *BSD (was:Re: Bigger isn't always better!) Message-ID: <47140F1B.1020808@comcast.net> Bill Gunshannon wrote: [...] > I hope you weren't misled into thinking that I was talking just SMB > when I said the Mac doesn't play well with others. It seems to do > an equally bad job of things like WPA-Enterprise, Radius, well, pretty > much anything wireless beyonf plain vanilla. And then we have had My wife successfully uses WPA on her wireless iBook daily. > cases where trying to use IMAP resulted in trashing the users mailbox. > Need I go on? No reason to bother. The Mac is religion and nothing > could convince its users to try something more practical. Like some > other OSes I can think of. (Of course, it is even funnier with the > Mac as they started out with a working FreeBSD userland and then, for > the most part, broke it.) So, has *BSD come up with WPA working "out of the box"? How impractical, if it does not. :-) You're right though, about users thinking that their OS is the only "true" OS. Religion is the opiate of the masses. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:48:40 -0600 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: PROCESS_SCAN.COM (or an example of what DCL can do) Message-ID: <1192480981_4341@sp12lax.superfeed.net> Keith Cayemberg wrote: > Here one more try... > > > $ proc_ver = F$ENVIRONMENT("VERIFY_PROCEDURE") > $ image_ver = F$ENVIRONMENT("VERIFY_IMAGE") > $! set noverify > $ goto INFOEND > $! > ========================================================================== > $! > $ info: > $ ERASE > $ Type Sys$Input > > PROCEDURE: PROCESS_SCAN.COM > AUTHOR: Keith Cayemberg > DATE: original version written sometime in the mid 1980's > > DESCRIPTION: > > This procedure provides a means to scan the JPI process context > variables > of other user's processes on the same node or cluster. Depending on > the [snipped wrapped text] Keith, I've put a cleaned copy (thanks Joseph Huber!) up at Jeff ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:08:18 -0400 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: SAMBA/CIFS (Was:Re: Bigger isn't always better!) Message-ID: <4713F2E2.1020900@comcast.net> Ron Johnson wrote: [...] > > 2.2.8????????? That's *ancient*. It was released 4.5 years ago. > Even v2.2.12, the last of the v2.2 series, was release 3 years ago. > > The 3.0.x series was first released in Sept 2003, and is now up to > v3.0.26a. > Perhaps so, but until the "official" HP push for CIFS, this was the only SAMBA available for VMS. For my (admittedly limited) purpose, (file sharing on a home network behind a firewall) it works fine. Newer isn't always better! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:11:00 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: SRVMISMATCH error fix available Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: IanMiller [mailto:gxys@uk2.net] > Sent: October 15, 2007 5:48 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: SRVMISMATCH error fix available > > On a cluster with > Alpha V8.3, V7.3-2 > I64 V8.3 > VAX V7.3 > > I installed the patches on the V8.3 nodes > > I'm still getting > %MONITOR-E-SRVMISMATCH, MONITOR server on remote node is an > incompatible version > > If I do MONITOR CLUSTER on the V8.3 notes. If I do MON CLUSTER on the > V7.3-2 node I get no errors but the CPU busy for the two V8.3 is shown > as a very large number (e.g 6564487 ) > > Did you also install VMS732_MONTOR-V0100? Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:00:15 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Message-ID: <4713e2ef$0$7611$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk> Ron Johnson wrote: > On 10/14/07 21:45, Neil Rieck wrote: >> On Oct 12, 9:00 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob >> Koehler) wrote: >>> Congrats to Al Gore and the UN panel on the environment on the >>> Nobel Peace Prize. >> >> Some scientists predicted that the long sought after "North West >> Passage" would be permanently open sometime before 2015. Guess what? >> It opened last month. >> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6995999.stm > > How do you get from (quoting the article) "this summer's reduction > has made the route navigable" to (your statement) "permanently open"? > > Shouldn't we wait *forever* to pronounce "permanently open"? > > Waiting until they send out some ships in *February* to pronounce > "open year-round" would also be, ummm, scientifically accurate. > > But who wants accuracy when absolutes are so much easier. Good point, the "dumbing down of the world", sad but true. Soundbites rule, the 3 second image is king. Who needs depth when a sensory jolt gets a message across easier - in truth, who needs truth? They broadcast from the NW passage on BBC World this evening, from an ice breaker - plenty of frozen arctic oceans up there still, and freezing fast. Expect it to be closed for navigation shortly. JF, there was some commentary on the disputed rights between Canada and everyone else, a balanced non-commital BBC position. One of the better reports from the Beeb this evening. Bjørn Lomberg asks why we shoot 500-1000 polar bears, and worry about them dying out from global warming? Maybe they are more threatened by us. Oh, I forgot, that part of AGs polemic has already been debunked. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:41:51 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Message-ID: On 10/15/07 17:00, Dr. Dweeb wrote: [snip] > > Bjørn Lomberg asks why we shoot 500-1000 polar bears, and worry about them > dying out from global warming? Maybe they are more threatened by us. Oh, I "Cultural sensitivity". -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:46:06 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Message-ID: <4714501f$0$7604$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk> David J Dachtera wrote: > Neil Rieck wrote: >> >> On Oct 12, 9:00 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob >> Koehler) wrote: >>> Congrats to Al Gore and the UN panel on the environment on the >>> Nobel Peace Prize. >> >> Some scientists predicted that the long sought after "North West >> Passage" would be permanently open sometime before 2015. Guess what? >> It opened last month. >> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6995999.stm > > Folks here probably know how Greenland got its name. > > Suffice it to say - circles are never-ending, and this is the next > time around this circle, one of many that comprise the cycles of this > planet. http://www.lyricsdepot.com/monty-python/galaxy-song.html Indeed. The sun is in control. Do not adjust your set. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 2007 19:08:12 -0400 From: Rich Alderson Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > In article , Rich Alderson > writes: >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >>> In article , Rich Alderson >>> writes: >>>> That's in reference to VMS implementations of TCP/IP, right? >>> It's a pretty well broken protocol anyhow. Any network protocol >>> that allows outsideers to make a connection without some action >>> by the local admin to provide access credentials always will be. >> Um, you say broken, I say design feature? Security does not belong at that >> low a level. Or are you telling me that DECNET does things that way? > Certainly DECnet does not allow an unprivileged user to accept > unauthenticated connections. That is a security feature. The > question of whether the designers realized the importance of > that at the time can be argued, but certainly the designers of > TCP/IP made a bad security decision. Larry, I'm only using your response for my general reply because it was threaded first in my newsreader. I read most of the followups to your post, and find that I can just respond at this level. The complaint you and the other DECnet users are lodging against TCP/IP as a protocol stack are really only valid with respect to particular implementations rather than with respect to the protocols themselves. I do not program in a Unix(TM) or Unix-like environment, nor in a VMS-like environment, and I do not encounter the issues which you all attribute to TCP/IP. On Tops-20, available from the same vendor as VMS, all TCP/IP service programs require special privileges (OPERATOR, ARPANET-WIZARD, ABSOLUTE-ARPANET-SOCKETS are the three lowest required--and the names should give you some idea of how old those privilege bits are). A user program can only attempt to open a connection to a well-known socket such as Telnet or FTP-Control, and that only because the general protection requirements are explicitly set aside in the monitor for those. So the hypothetical junior programmer cannot create and run a program that listens on an oddball socket without some system admin giving the JP privileges to do so. So again, I respectfully deny that TCP/IP is inherently any less secure than DECnet as it has been described to me in this thread, and will even suggest that had Unix been blest with a DECnet stack, the people that opened up the holes in TCP/IP would have done the same favour for DECnet. -- Rich Alderson "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 2007 22:54:29 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: In article , Rich Alderson writes: > The complaint you and the other DECnet users are lodging against TCP/IP as a > protocol stack are really only valid with respect to particular implementations > rather than with respect to the protocols themselves. I do not program in a > Unix(TM) or Unix-like environment, nor in a VMS-like environment, and I do not > encounter the issues which you all attribute to TCP/IP. > > On Tops-20, available from the same vendor as VMS, all TCP/IP service programs > require special privileges (OPERATOR, ARPANET-WIZARD, ABSOLUTE-ARPANET-SOCKETS If HP or Process were to do that on VMS they would be deluged by complaints that TCP/IP programs could not readily be imported to VMS from Unix. So you are correct in that some of the problems with TCP/IP are the culture and expectations that have grown up around it. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 2007 15:48:06 -0500 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Translating $Status Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > In article , > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > >> In article <1192194978.858658.187730@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, BaxterD@tessco.com writes: >> > I seem to remember that there is a really simple command to >> > convert a $Status to a text message. >> > >> > i.e. I executed a copy command from node A to node B and it failed >> > with status "%X1067109A". I believe that there is a way to use this >> > status to see what the actual cause of the failure was, -- just cant >> > remember it. >> > >> > Can anyone jog my memory?? >> >> $ write sys$output f$message("%X1067109A") > > In general, yes, but you might have to issue a $ SET MESSAGE command in > some cases (not the case above). Yes, that is true - see below for an example. I run a script that tries the various databases in SYS$MESSAGE (based on something from the net), and it successfully translates my status code. $ HELP/MESSAGE/STATUS='st did not work in this case, but may be a good solution for most VMS utilities - see second example. -- George Cornelius cornelius(at)eisner.decus.org cornelius(at)mayo.edu =========================================================================== $ dsm/manager DSM V7.2.1 for OpenVMS AXP DSMMGR [Baseline] >h %DSM-I-HALT, HALT command executed $ st=$status $ ! $ write sys$output f$mess(st) %DSM-I-NOMSG, Message number 007F8453 $ ! $ help /message/status='st %MSGHLP-F-NOTFOUND, message not found in Help Message database $ ! $ @scripts:trymsglookup 'st Searching: "SYS$MESSAGE:*.EXE" SYS$COMMON:[SYSMSG]DSM$MESSAGE.EXE;9 %DSM-I-HALT, HALT command executed =========================================================================== $ sear login.com skjflkjsdf %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched $ st=$status $ write sys$output f$mess(st) %NONAME-I-NOMSG, Message number 08D78053 $ help /message/status='st NOMATCHES, no strings matched Facility: SEARCH, SEARCH Command Explanation: The search operation opened and searched one or more files, but the files did not contain the search strings. This message is informational. User Action: None. $ @scripts:trymsglookup 'st Searching: "SYS$MESSAGE:*.EXE" SYS$COMMON:[SYSMSG]CLIUTLMSG.EXE;1 %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched =========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:45:04 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: www.hp.com/go/openvms is still toast Message-ID: <1192484704.976825.250300@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 12:04 pm, "John Vottero" wrote: > "Neil Rieck" wrote in message > > news:1192459375.401370.216950@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com... > > >www.hp.com/go/openvmsis still toast at of 10:40 this morning. It was > > off the air for most of Sunday too. If any HP people can read this, > > please make the necessary phone calls. > > It works for me. Yep. It came up around 11:30 AM. I can only assume someone saw my post. NSR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:43:18 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: www.hp.com/go/openvms is still toast Message-ID: <47141736.C81698CC@spam.comcast.net> Neil Rieck wrote: > > On Oct 15, 12:04 pm, "John Vottero" wrote: > > "Neil Rieck" wrote in message > > > > news:1192459375.401370.216950@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com... > > > > >www.hp.com/go/openvmsis still toast at of 10:40 this morning. It was > > > off the air for most of Sunday too. If any HP people can read this, > > > please make the necessary phone calls. > > > > It works for me. > > Yep. It came up around 11:30 AM. I can only assume someone saw my > post. I wrote to Sue, et al circa. 09:00CDT. She responded that Warren was already working on it. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:16:33 -0700 From: Cluster-Karl Subject: Re: www.hp.com/go/openvms is still toast Message-ID: <1192511793.932919.232260@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com> I reported it to HP and got a mail from Warren, it was a bad port and has been fixed. Works now again... regards kalle ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.565 ************************