INFO-VAX Fri, 19 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 572 Contents: Re: ANN: MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS Re: ANN: MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS Re: ANN: MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS ANN: PQUOTA V2.0 freeware avialable Re: ANN: PQUOTA V2.0 freeware avialable Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Mozilla default plugin configuration Re: Mozilla default plugin configuration Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) www.digital-equipment.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Oct 2007 08:54:06 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: ANN: MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS Message-ID: In article <1192797618.872455.44300@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, thierry.uso@wanadoo.fr writes: > MibbleBrowser 2.8 has been ported on OpenVMS. Or not. > Porting means testing > all the functions, writing a startup procedure and creating a PCSI > kit. That might be your definition of porting... > MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS > must be > installed on an ODS5 volume. ...but not mine. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:09:34 -0000 From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: ANN: MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS Message-ID: <1192802974.060411.143790@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Oct 19, 9:54 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > In article <1192797618.872455.44...@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, thierry....@wanadoo.fr writes: > > MibbleBrowser 2.8 has been ported on OpenVMS. > > Or not. > > > Porting means testing > > all the functions, writing a startup procedure and creating a PCSI > > kit. > > That might be your definition of porting... > > > MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS > > must be > > installed on an ODS5 volume. > > ...but not mine. Larry, Please clarify? Sounds like a fine effort with a modest disclaimer. Is the ODS5 part a problem for you? You'll have to bite that bullet some day! Regards, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Oct 2007 12:40:05 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: ANN: MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS Message-ID: In article <1192802974.060411.143790@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes: > On Oct 19, 9:54 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: >> In article <1192797618.872455.44...@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, thierry....@wanadoo.fr writes: >> > MibbleBrowser 2.8 has been ported on OpenVMS. >> >> Or not. >> >> > Porting means testing >> > all the functions, writing a startup procedure and creating a PCSI >> > kit. >> >> That might be your definition of porting... >> >> > MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS >> > must be >> > installed on an ODS5 volume. >> >> ...but not mine. > > > Larry, Please clarify? If it hasn't been made compatible with ODS-2, it has not really been ported, just recompiled. That would be as bad as "ports" that expect VMS users to type -qualifier value rather than /QUALIFIER=VALUE. > Is the ODS5 part a problem for you? ODS-5 is a capability VMS offers to users. It should not be a requirement imposed on users by third parties. > You'll have to bite that bullet some day! Why is that ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 05:54:40 -0500 From: Hunter Goatley Subject: ANN: PQUOTA V2.0 freeware avialable Message-ID: <47188CF0.4080500@goatley.com> The following freeware has been added to my archive: o PQUOTA - Display process quotas PQUOTA provides information about resource utilisation for an individual VMS process. The information retrieved includes: - The process name. - The name of the user who owns the process. - The name of the node on which the process is running. - The current process state. - The CPU time that has been charged to the process so far. - Current virtual size of the process. - Number of total I/O's and pagefaults. - Current system and process resource quotas. - The maximum quota values used by the process during the current PQUOTA run. - Enabled and pending AST's for this process. PQUOTA was writen by Kari Salminenand runs on VAX, Alpha, and Integrity. http://www.process.com/openvms/ ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/pquota.zip http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/pquota.zip ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/pquota.zip http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/pquota.zip Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ PreciseMail Anti-Spam Gateway for OpenVMS, Tru64, Solaris, & Linux goathunter@goatley.com http://www.goatley.com/hunter/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:47:27 -0000 From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: ANN: PQUOTA V2.0 freeware avialable Message-ID: <1192801647.963413.133190@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 19, 6:54 am, Hunter Goatley wrote: > The following freeware has been added to my archive: > > o PQUOTA - Display process quotas : > PQUOTA was writen by Kari Salminenand runs on VAX, Alpha, and Integrity. An excellent contribution. Thank you Kari. It beats the various DCL GETJPI scripts myself and others have floating around for this. Please note however that SHOW PROC/CONT, which already showed a good few of the variables, has been improved with OpenVMS 8.3 to also display the Quota counts for a process. Just hit 'q' on the keyboard while looking at a process will give something like: Process _FTA3: 09:37:35 State CUR Working set 377 PID 208008A5 Page faults 517 UIC [HEIN] Event flags C0000007 80000000 # open files remaining 99/100 ( 99%) Direct I/O count/limit 150/150 (100%) Buffered I/O count/limit 150/150 (100%) BUFIO byte count/limit 127616/127616 (100%) ASTs remaining 248/250 ( 99%) Timer entries remaining 10/10 (100%) PGFL quota count/limit 31568/32000 ( 98%) ENQ quota count/limit 1994/2000 ( 99%) $8$DKA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]SHOW.EXE e = exit q = quota t = threads v = virtual memory space = back to main Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 04:47:14 -0700 From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <1192794434.901652.15130@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 04:55:15 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <1192794915.279888.185310@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On Oct 19, 7:47 am, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 No body or book can predict the future. No body can read minds. Angels (who do not exist) are not recording everything we do. Devils (who do not exist) are not prompting us to do evil acts. Mankind alone is repsonsible for peace (or war) so stop posting this non-sense. It's time for a world wide plea for rationalism. NSR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:25:18 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <4718A22E.5050200@comcast.net> Neil Rieck wrote: > On Oct 19, 7:47 am, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > >>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 > > > No body or book can predict the future. No body can read minds. Angels > (who do not exist) are not recording everything we do. Devils (who do > not exist) are not prompting us to do evil acts. Mankind alone is > repsonsible for peace (or war) so stop posting this non-sense. It's > time for a world wide plea for rationalism. > > NSR > Just as some schizophrenics prefer the voices in their heads to rationality, some prefer God(s). . . . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:27:52 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: On 10/19/07 06:47, ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 Anything written by Hal "the USSR is Gog" Lindsey is immediately to be tossed in the bit bucket. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: 19 Oct 2007 08:50:59 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: In article <1192794434.901652.15130@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes: > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 Please stop posting unrelated URLs. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:10:05 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <1V2Si.1698$uk.1380@newsfe21.lga> On 10/19/07 06:55, Neil Rieck wrote: > On Oct 19, 7:47 am, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: >> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 > > No body or book can predict the future. No body can read minds. Angels > (who do not exist) are not recording everything we do. Devils (who do > not exist) are not prompting us to do evil acts. Mankind alone is > repsonsible for peace (or war) so stop posting this non-sense. > It's > time for a world wide plea for rationalism. Ain't gonna happen... -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:43:56 -0700 From: David Mathog Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 > That was not a particularly amusing example of a religious fantasy, these are better: http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/archive/getfuzzy-20070930.html http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/ http://www.venganza.org/ ------------------------------ Date: 19 Oct 2007 16:35:58 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <5ns4neFjpkj1U1@mid.individual.net> In article , David Mathog writes: > ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: >> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 >> > > That was not a particularly amusing example of a religious fantasy, > these are better: > > http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/archive/getfuzzy-20070930.html Saw this one when it appeared in the Sunday funnies. Thought it was pretty good. > http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/ This looksl ike someone who has been reading old SF..... [and after much deliberation they finally came up with what they thought was the perfect question for the new Supercomputer. The operator typed the question into the console, "Is there a God?" The relays clicked and the tapes spun back and forth and finally after a few minutes the computer printed the answer back on the console. It said, "There is now."] > http://www.venganza.org/ Didn't get this one. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:11:25 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: In article <5ns4neFjpkj1U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >In article , > David Mathog writes: >> ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: >>> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 >>> >> >> That was not a particularly amusing example of a religious fantasy, >> these are better: >> >> http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/archive/getfuzzy-20070930.html > >Saw this one when it appeared in the Sunday funnies. Thought it >was pretty good. > >> http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/ > >This looksl ike someone who has been reading old SF..... > >[and after much deliberation they finally came up with what they >thought was the perfect question for the new Supercomputer. The >operator typed the question into the console, "Is there a God?" >The relays clicked and the tapes spun back and forth and finally >after a few minutes the computer printed the answer back on the >console. It said, "There is now."] > "Answer," from Angels and Spaceships, by Fredric Brown (Dutton, 1954) http://www.alteich.com/oldsite/answer.htm which is posted on this site because it is mentioned in the preface of the book, edited by Albert H Teich and promoted by the site, in reference to the internet http://www.alteich.com/oldsite/preface.htm David Webb security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >> http://www.venganza.org/ > >Didn't get this one. > > >bill > > >-- >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >University of Scranton | >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 19 Oct 2007 17:24:39 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <5ns7inFjts0sU1@mid.individual.net> In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > In article <5ns4neFjpkj1U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>In article , >> David Mathog writes: >>> ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: >>>> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 >>>> >>> >>> That was not a particularly amusing example of a religious fantasy, >>> these are better: >>> >>> http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/archive/getfuzzy-20070930.html >> >>Saw this one when it appeared in the Sunday funnies. Thought it >>was pretty good. >> >>> http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/ >> >>This looksl ike someone who has been reading old SF..... >> >>[and after much deliberation they finally came up with what they >>thought was the perfect question for the new Supercomputer. The >>operator typed the question into the console, "Is there a God?" >>The relays clicked and the tapes spun back and forth and finally >>after a few minutes the computer printed the answer back on the >>console. It said, "There is now."] >> > > > "Answer," from Angels and Spaceships, by Fredric Brown (Dutton, 1954) Thank you, I can never remember the citation but I can never forget the story. God was I young then....... > > http://www.alteich.com/oldsite/answer.htm > > > which is posted on this site because it is mentioned in the preface of the > book, edited by Albert H Teich and promoted by the site, in reference to the > internet > > http://www.alteich.com/oldsite/preface.htm Hmmmm.... I just read his blurb in that preface and that part about the bolt of lightening makes me think we are looking at different stories. I'll have to do some research, bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 19 Oct 2007 17:31:28 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <5ns7vgFjts0sU2@mid.individual.net> In article <5ns7inFjts0sU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > In article , > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >> In article <5ns4neFjpkj1U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>In article , >>> David Mathog writes: >>>> ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 >>>>> >>>> >>>> That was not a particularly amusing example of a religious fantasy, >>>> these are better: >>>> >>>> http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/archive/getfuzzy-20070930.html >>> >>>Saw this one when it appeared in the Sunday funnies. Thought it >>>was pretty good. >>> >>>> http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/ >>> >>>This looksl ike someone who has been reading old SF..... >>> >>>[and after much deliberation they finally came up with what they >>>thought was the perfect question for the new Supercomputer. The >>>operator typed the question into the console, "Is there a God?" >>>The relays clicked and the tapes spun back and forth and finally >>>after a few minutes the computer printed the answer back on the >>>console. It said, "There is now."] >>> >> >> >> "Answer," from Angels and Spaceships, by Fredric Brown (Dutton, 1954) > > Thank you, I can never remember the citation but I can never forget > the story. God was I young then....... > >> >> http://www.alteich.com/oldsite/answer.htm >> >> >> which is posted on this site because it is mentioned in the preface of the >> book, edited by Albert H Teich and promoted by the site, in reference to the >> internet >> >> http://www.alteich.com/oldsite/preface.htm > > Hmmmm.... I just read his blurb in that preface and that part about > the bolt of lightening makes me think we are looking at different > stories. I'll have to do some research, > Well, this is going to take a lot of research. In just the first couple minutes I have found over a dozen versions all attributed to different SF writers with only minor variances. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 02:24:02 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Message-ID: <1192785842.910276.242220@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Oct 18, 9:44 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > Richard Maher wrote: > > How many people would be interested in running Glass Fish on OpenVMS, A= lpha > > or Integrity? > > Of those, how many would want to: > > > 1. use OpenVMS as a host for their Glass Fish Application Server > > 2. Have free beer for the rest of their lives > > 3. both of the above > > > Glass Fish is an Open Source initiative. We have port(ing)ed it to Open= VMS > > 8.3 > > on Alpha and Integrity to try and justify our existence (nothing better= to > > do...*literally*). > > I don't think Glassfish is particular interesting from a market > perspective. > > The big players in that market are: > 1) IBM WebSphere AS (commercial) > 2) BEA WebLogic (commercial) > 3) Redhat JBoss (open source) > 4) Oracle AS (commercial) > > #3 runs on VMS. #2 used to be available for VMS - I assume > that it still is. #1 is not available for VMS. I have never heard > about #4 on VMS, but Oracle do support VMS for a lot of their > products so maybe. > > 2 (maybe 3) out of 4 is not bad. > > Arne Oracle AS is not available for OpenVMS. Oracle's position is that while OpenVMS can be used as the database server, you must use Windows, Linux or certain flavors of Unix (Solaris, AIX, HP-UX) for the middleware platform. I do not know if this is set in stone or subject to change. John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 03:27:23 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Mozilla default plugin configuration Message-ID: <1a05c$47185c60$cef8887a$9158@TEKSAVVY.COM> Some time ago, it was suggested that I remove the flash plug in for Mozilla (VMS) since "The Inquirer"'s use of flash causes mozilla to crash. So I followed that suggestion, but now, 90% of web pages I visit cause the "default plug in" dialog box to pop up, asking me to download a plug-in. (which of course I know isn't available for VMS). Is there a way to configure Mozilla so that the default plug-in does not prompt to try to attempt to doanload a plug it ? If not, is there some dummy plug-in that can be installed to pretend to be the Flash Plug In without doing anything with the content, which would please remote web sites (who would think I have Flash 9 installed) and Mozilla who woudln't complain ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:35:44 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Mozilla default plugin configuration Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Is there a way to configure Mozilla... Yes, configure it (Firefox) on something else then VMS. Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:00:54 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <47186439$0$7604$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >> Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> I just saw a job posting in Denmark. >>> >>> Required skills: VMS, Cobol, ACMS, DECForms, VAX and Alpha. >>> >>> Long time since I last saw one of those. >> >> In sweden I've seen 1 or 2 jobs postings (culsulting) >> each months since this summer. Not in the public >> job postings but on "consulting brookers" web sites. >> >> Mainly full time, 6-12 months jobs. > > I think this was similar. > > But it is a long time since I have seen ACMS and > DECForms wanted in Denmark. > > Arne Arne, Where did you see that* Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:03:32 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <471864d7$0$7605$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk> Tom Linden wrote: > On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:08:15 -0700, Arne Vajhøj > wrote: >> Denmark is a much smaller country than UK and the financial >> sector in Denmark has always been very blue. > > That is because Maersk Mckinney Moeller was a roommate of Tom Watson > Jr. at Yale. Well that might have explainded why Maersk Data was blue, or Big Blue might simply have been the only one up to the tasks at hand. Maersk Oil had VMS in the old days though for some stuff. Gone now I suspect Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: 19 Oct 2007 12:24:18 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <5nrlviFjmnbiU1@mid.individual.net> In article <47186439$0$7604$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" writes: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >>> Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> I just saw a job posting in Denmark. >>>> >>>> Required skills: VMS, Cobol, ACMS, DECForms, VAX and Alpha. >>>> >>>> Long time since I last saw one of those. >>> >>> In sweden I've seen 1 or 2 jobs postings (culsulting) >>> each months since this summer. Not in the public >>> job postings but on "consulting brookers" web sites. >>> >>> Mainly full time, 6-12 months jobs. >> >> I think this was similar. >> >> But it is a long time since I have seen ACMS and >> DECForms wanted in Denmark. >> > > Where did you see that* > I guess the big question really is are these long term support jobs or conversions? Why do I ask? About a year ago a major beltway bandit was advertising for Fortran Programmers (damn, why didn't I apply!!) Apparently the search went badly. Juat about a month ago they were looking for Java Programmers with a working knowledge of Fortran to do a conversion. The location was the same. Just because someone wants people with legacy experience doesn't mean long term survival for the legacy system. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 05:10:43 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Message-ID: <1192795843.796812.13950@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Oct 18, 9:44 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 10/18/07 20:17, Neil Rieck wrote: > [...snip...] > > And if Carter or (especially) Mondale had been in office, the Soviet > appeasers and peaceniks would have slashed the US military budget > and the Sovs could have trundled along for quite a while longer. > Carter made a huge mistake by cutting CIA budgets and reducing foreign intellegence from offshore CIA agents. But it didn't matter who was at the helm in America between 81 and 88. According to information from MI6 (which was shared with the Regan administration) the Soviets were spending in excess of 40% of GDP on the military before they went into Afghanistan. Then 10 years of conflict in Afghanistan finally destroyed the Soviet economy. After 92 they couldn't even afford to fuel their planes and subs. NSR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:51:37 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article , JF Mezei writes: > >>david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> >>>But that is the problem with your whole comparison of DECNET versus TCPIP. >>>DECNET and TCPIP are communication protocols. NCP or NCL which control how >>>DECNET objects are setup and who can set them up are not part of the >>>communication protocol they are implementation specific management >>>structures. >> >> >>The big difference is that with DECNET, credentials of the calling party >>are transmitted to the called party. And the VMS system can then verify >>this before even handing the call to the application behind it. A >>server process can define its object to accept connections from anyone >>and everyone, but you still get credentials of the calling party as part >>of the call setup. >> > > You mean the username of the calling party. This is provided during the > call-setup because DECNET makes use of proxies. > In TCPIP communication proxies are used by the rlogin, rshell etc and they also > pass across the username of the calling party. > > ( > And before we get into the side issue of rhost files in user's directories note > that this again is an implementation issue DEC TCPIP services centrally manages > communication proxies. > ) > > > > >>With TCPIP, all you get is the IP and a port number of the calling party. >> > > See above. > > For TCP connections all you can reasonably* trust is the IP number and > port since you have established two way communication back to that IP number > and port. (* I'm ignoring blind spoofing and connection hijacking > possibilities). > > For UDP connections even this level of trust isn't available. > > I can't imagine that DECNET is any better than TCP in this regard. All you can > reasonably trust is the address of the machine with which you have established > two-way communication. > > > > > > >>It can be argued that the credentials can be faked, especially if the >>calling party doesn't run VMS and uses some hacked DECNET stack. >> >>There can be *some* security in TCPIP. For instance, the OSU web server >>has a management utility that uses a predermined port to make the >>outgoing call FROM. So the web server process then ensures that a >>management request comes from a port defined in the configuration. If >>that config specifies a port that is less than 1024, then the person >>using the management client must have privileges to enable the >>management client to use a known port number for its outgoing port. (for >>instance, client connects from port 930 on his node to port 80 on the >>web server's node). >> > > I believe the default is port 931. It also defaults to the management host > being the localhost. > > >> >> >>>It would be entirely possible to implement a version of those DECNET management >>>structures which would allow unprivileged users to setup DECNET objects >> >>But it would not be possible on VMS itself. > > > If by the above you mean implementing a version of the DECNET management > structures which would allow unprivileged users to setup DECNET objects then of > course it could be done on VMS. Just write a program , make it available > (w:re) and then install it with privileges. Isn't the whole point of this thread what a *NON* privileged user can do? If you altered file permissions > and installed a few programs with privileges you could probably get NCL or NCP > usable by unprivileged users (not that i'd recommend it because those programs > are much too powerful and complicated for end-user use. A specially written > program which restricted the user as to what DECNET objects they could create > and manipulate would be much better/safer ie Only allowing them to manipulate > DECNET objects and at the very least not allowing them to alter any of the > standard DECNET objects setup by the system manager ). > > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > > -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:24:53 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: In article , John Santos writes: >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> In article , JF Mezei writes: >> >>>david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >>> >>>>But that is the problem with your whole comparison of DECNET versus TCPIP. >>>>DECNET and TCPIP are communication protocols. NCP or NCL which control how >>>>DECNET objects are setup and who can set them up are not part of the >>>>communication protocol they are implementation specific management >>>>structures. >>> >>> >>>The big difference is that with DECNET, credentials of the calling party >>>are transmitted to the called party. And the VMS system can then verify >>>this before even handing the call to the application behind it. A >>>server process can define its object to accept connections from anyone >>>and everyone, but you still get credentials of the calling party as part >>>of the call setup. >>> >> >> You mean the username of the calling party. This is provided during the >> call-setup because DECNET makes use of proxies. >> In TCPIP communication proxies are used by the rlogin, rshell etc and they also >> pass across the username of the calling party. >> >> ( >> And before we get into the side issue of rhost files in user's directories note >> that this again is an implementation issue DEC TCPIP services centrally manages >> communication proxies. >> ) >> >> >> >> >>>With TCPIP, all you get is the IP and a port number of the calling party. >>> >> >> See above. >> >> For TCP connections all you can reasonably* trust is the IP number and >> port since you have established two way communication back to that IP number >> and port. (* I'm ignoring blind spoofing and connection hijacking >> possibilities). >> >> For UDP connections even this level of trust isn't available. >> >> I can't imagine that DECNET is any better than TCP in this regard. All you can >> reasonably trust is the address of the machine with which you have established >> two-way communication. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>It can be argued that the credentials can be faked, especially if the >>>calling party doesn't run VMS and uses some hacked DECNET stack. >>> >>>There can be *some* security in TCPIP. For instance, the OSU web server >>>has a management utility that uses a predermined port to make the >>>outgoing call FROM. So the web server process then ensures that a >>>management request comes from a port defined in the configuration. If >>>that config specifies a port that is less than 1024, then the person >>>using the management client must have privileges to enable the >>>management client to use a known port number for its outgoing port. (for >>>instance, client connects from port 930 on his node to port 80 on the >>>web server's node). >>> >> >> I believe the default is port 931. It also defaults to the management host >> being the localhost. >> >> >>> >>> >>>>It would be entirely possible to implement a version of those DECNET management >>>>structures which would allow unprivileged users to setup DECNET objects >>> >>>But it would not be possible on VMS itself. >> >> >> If by the above you mean implementing a version of the DECNET management >> structures which would allow unprivileged users to setup DECNET objects then of >> course it could be done on VMS. Just write a program , make it available >> (w:re) and then install it with privileges. > >Isn't the whole point of this thread what a *NON* privileged user can do? > I was responding to the "But it would not be possible on VMS itself." which looked, as indicated by my "If by the above you mean", as if it was saying that such a version of DECNET allowing unprivileged users to setup DECNET objects could not be created on VMS. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University > If you altered file permissions >> and installed a few programs with privileges you could probably get NCL or NCP >> usable by unprivileged users (not that i'd recommend it because those programs >> are much too powerful and complicated for end-user use. A specially written >> program which restricted the user as to what DECNET objects they could create >> and manipulate would be much better/safer ie Only allowing them to manipulate >> DECNET objects and at the very least not allowing them to alter any of the >> standard DECNET objects setup by the system manager ). >> >> >> David Webb >> Security team leader >> CCSS >> Middlesex University >> >> > > >-- >John Santos >Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. >781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:34:03 -0700 From: Alain bozar Subject: www.digital-equipment.com Message-ID: <1192815243.645247.11100@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com> I m an old engineer from DEC and i have still sources to find parts and systems My office is in Paris and Montr=E9al do not hesitate to contact My web site is www.digital-equipment.com ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.572 ************************