INFO-VAX Sun, 21 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 575 Contents: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Re: LDAP server under OpenVMS Re: lexical for terminal attributes? Re: lexical for terminal attributes? Re: OT: RIAA is now attacking NNTP server operators Re: OT: RIAA is now attacking NNTP server operators RE: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting RE: Rare job posting ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:17:25 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <1192904245.420334.140620@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 19, 7:33 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <1192826059.512918.218...@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, > Doug Phillips writes: > > > > > On Oct 19, 1:12 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> In article , > >> Ron Johnson writes: > > >> > On 10/19/07 11:35, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> > [snip] > > >> >>>http://www.venganza.org/ > > >> >> Didn't get this one. > > >> > You've never heard of Pastafarianism or the Church of the Flying > >> > Spaghetti Monster???? It's the only valid proof that the FSM is > >> > punishing us for getting rid of pirates! > > >> >http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif > > >> Sorry, never heard of it. And somehow, I don;t think I missed much. :-) > > > Well, I guess that means your c.o.v post from June 2007 (link below) > > either appeared by supernatural means, was spoofed, was forgotten, or > > you don't read the messages to which you reply: > > > > dmode=source> > > > shortened preview link: > > > > > The great god Google remembers all. > > Should have looked before my last post, but I just did, I don't > see where I said anything about noodles or pirates or anything > similar. My comment was about nativity scenes. What am I missing? > The point? An understanding of the messages you reply to? An appreciation for satirical humor? The Kansas Board of Education fiasco? The money you loaned to your brother-in-law? I don't know, you'll need to ask that question of yourself. If you don't feel comfortable talking to yourself, I'll help: What are you missing? ### " About The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, while having existed in secrecy for hundreds of years, only recently came into the mainstream when this letter was published in May 2005. With millions, if not thousands, of devout worshippers, the Church of the FSM is widely considered a legitimate religion, even by its opponents - mostly fundamentalist Christians, who have accepted that our God has larger balls than theirs. ..." -- Bobby Henderson ### "An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny." -- Scientific American ### "You might say that because science can explain just about everything but not quite, it's wrong to say therefore we don't need God. It is also, I suppose, wrong to say we don't need the Flying Spaghetti Monster, unicorns, Thor, Wotan, Jupiter, or fairies at the bottom of the garden. There's an infinite number of things that some people at one time or another have believed in, and an infinite number of things that nobody has believed in. If there's not the slightest reason to believe in any of those things, why bother? The onus is on somebody who says, I want to believe in God, Flying Spaghetti Monster, fairies, or whatever it is. It is not up to us to disprove it." -- Richard Dawkins ### #### Apparently you don't find humor in "International Talk Like A Pirate Day" either, so maybe you'd rather walk-the-walk than talk-the-talk and will better appreciate Cap'n Billy's favorite day: "Captain Billy 'The Butcher' MacDougall (pronounced "MacDougall") has been hiding from authorities for most of his life. He lives on his ship, The Frightened Flounder, but can sometimes be found at the Crow's Nest Tavern. His hobbies include plundering and rum." ### "You guys need to get out more. And they tell me I don't have a life!!" -- bill ### "What the hell does that have to do with VMS?" -- Origin Unknown ##### ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:49:02 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: Doug Phillips wrote: > ### > > "What the hell does that have to do with VMS?" > -- Origin Unknown > > ##### The church of VAX worshippers still exists. Proof at: http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/vax-temple.gif There are rumours of a VMS worshippers also existing. Apparently, they need to SET PROC/SUSP twice a day and then kneel down in the direction of ZKO and pray to beg for the survival of VMS and its porting to a viable platform. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:23:42 -0400 From: =?windows-1252?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Message-ID: <471a9c07$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> The big players in that market are: >> 1) IBM WebSphere AS (commercial) >> 2) BEA WebLogic (commercial) >> 3) Redhat JBoss (open source) >> 4) Oracle AS (commercial) >> #2 used to be available for VMS - I assume >> that it still is. > > The reasent VMS Tech Update said : > " BEA Weblogic – 8.1 SP3 on Alpha and Integrity > - No new versions currently planned, > - we’re plan JBOSS as alternative " :-( Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:27:09 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Message-ID: <471a9cd6$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: > On Oct 18, 9:44 pm, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> The big players in that market are: >> 1) IBM WebSphere AS (commercial) >> 2) BEA WebLogic (commercial) >> 3) Redhat JBoss (open source) >> 4) Oracle AS (commercial) >> I have never heard >> about #4 on VMS, but Oracle do support VMS for a lot of their >> products so maybe. > Oracle AS is not available for OpenVMS. Oracle's position is that > while OpenVMS can be used as the database server, you must use > Windows, Linux or certain flavors of Unix (Solaris, AIX, HP-UX) for > the middleware platform. > > I do not know if this is set in stone or subject to change. It is something that Compaq/HP management could have discussed with Oracle. (They still can, but it is very late) The effort to port a Java app to VMS should not be that big. All the open source app servers seem to be ported to VMS. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:29:31 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Message-ID: <471ac795$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> mjjerabek wrote: > I went through an install of java 1.5 on an rx2620 duo core with 3gb > ram, a radeon video card, mouse, keyboard, and OpenVMS 8.3. I followed > the patching and tuning recommendation from the java release notes and > from the java$check_environment.com DCL file. I then started running > the jdk demo applications to get an idea of java performance versus > the same applications running on an 2.8ghz P4 XP PC with 256mb of ram. > > The performance of these java apps on the OpenVMS ia64 system was > extremely poor as compared to a much slower PC running XP. I followed > these tests up with a re-tune of the VMS authorize and sysgen > parameters, taking these parameters from their recommended values to > ridiculously large values (1gb wsquo, wsmax 1gb, everything big). The > performance of these apps got better, but had lots of rough spots. > > For example, the java2d app has a tabbed dialog where each tab > displayed different classes of graphics operations. When the app ran, > the graphics operations ran OK, but when I tried to select a different > dialog tab, it took 4 minutes 30 seconds (clock time) to switch dialog > tabs and start the display of the new graphics operations. Once the > tab was fully rendered, the new graphics operations ran at a > reasonable speed. > What I am looking for (I guess) is guidance from experienced people on > how to get performance out of java under OpenVMS Ia64 and Alpha > systems. I need access to better information than what HP chooses to > provide. In my experience Java works OK on VMS. If you: - specify FAST JVM - gives is lots of ressources it seems to work fine. The FAST JVM is pretty good. But note that this is server usage. Not GUI usage. I would not be surprised if GUI performance sucks. I doubt much optimization energy has been put into it. > I could use the following: > > 1) VMS tuning advice for java. What are typical authorize and sysgen > values for java usage. > > 2) More example applications to test with. My application will be a > rather large app and the demo apps that come with the JDK are not. > > 3) Suggest some URL's, books, etc that will guide me. I can run a single user hello world complexity app on JBoss with: Maxjobs: 0 Fillm: 5000 Bytlm: 750000 Maxacctjobs: 0 Shrfillm: 0 Pbytlm: 0 Maxdetach: 0 BIOlm: 1000 JTquota: 4096 Prclm: 10 DIOlm: 100 WSdef: 4000 Prio: 4 ASTlm: 250 WSquo: 16000 Queprio: 0 TQElm: 20 WSextent: 64000 CPU: (none) Enqlm: 2000 Pgflquo: 768000 and: java -server -Xmx128m It should obviously get much more memory. For other platforms I would suggest: - small app 64m-128m - large app 256m-512m - really large app 768m-1024m - server app (32 bit) 1.5g and crying - server app (64 bit) 2g-8g which gives an idea about the environment Java itself and Java apps are written to run in. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:30:20 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Message-ID: <471ac7c5$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Tom Linden wrote: > Could also be a poor implementation of Java. Isn't it an interpreter? > Takes > some skill (and good design) to write a good interpreter. I would assume the FAST JVM is using JIT compilation. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:38:09 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Message-ID: <471ac99b$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> JF Mezei wrote: > Has JAVA ever been accused of having good performance ? > > Back then, people were complaining about ALLIN1 being a hog. Looks to me > that JAVA is orders of magnitudes slower and more resource hungry. If you consider performance as "number crunching", then newer (less than 5 years old) perform quite well on most platforms. Seen from a traditional VMS point of view then Java uses ridiculous amounts of memory. Compared to the standard in the x86 world it is not that bad. Typical home PC's have 2-4 GB (and when the driver situation for Vista 64 bit improves 4-8 GB will be common). And why not - a GB cost about 50 USD. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:08:05 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Message-ID: On 10/20/07 22:38, Arne Vajhøj wrote: [snip] > > Typical home PC's have 2-4 GB (and when the driver situation for You're kidding, right? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:20:16 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Message-ID: <471ad37a$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Ron Johnson wrote: > On 10/20/07 22:38, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > [snip] >> Typical home PC's have 2-4 GB (and when the driver situation for > > You're kidding, right? No. You will not want to run Vista on less than 2 GB. You will need more if you need to run big apps. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:00:41 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: LDAP server under OpenVMS Message-ID: <471ac0d2$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Christoph Gartmann wrote: > the subject says it all: is there a LDAP server for OpenVMS? I know there is > one from HP but it requires DECnet V. Any other solutions? There are a couple of open source LDAP server that could possible work on VMS. The two most obvious to try was: http://directory.apache.org/ http://www.opends.org/ because they are Java based and should run on VMS with only an installation/configuration effort. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:07:25 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: lexical for terminal attributes? Message-ID: <471ab455$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <1191031786.524350.276810@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: >> When is it not? Sometimes the terminal may different from the SET >> TERMINAL width, but the defbufsiz always gives the latter, no? > > I have seen the defbufsiz vary from the actual width, which matched > the width reported by "show terminal". I don't know under what > circumstances this occurs, I just remember seeing it and realizing I > could not rely on defbufsiz in sylogin. A couple of decades ago it could happen if one changed the VT terminal from 80 to 132 or the other way around in the terminal config. In that case VMS did not know that the width has changed. $ SET TERM/WID=n both send the proper escape sequence to the terminal to get it to change and update VMS. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:09:19 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: lexical for terminal attributes? Message-ID: <471ab4c8$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article <1191031786.524350.276810@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >> AEF writes: >>> When is it not? Sometimes the terminal may different from the SET >>> TERMINAL width, but the defbufsiz always gives the latter, no? >> >> I have seen the defbufsiz vary from the actual width, which matched >> the width reported by "show terminal". I don't know under what >> circumstances this occurs, I just remember seeing it and realizing I >> could not rely on defbufsiz in sylogin. > > A couple of decades ago it could happen if one changed the VT terminal > from 80 to 132 or the other way around in the terminal config. > > In that case VMS did not know that the width has changed. > > $ SET TERM/WID=n > > both send the proper escape sequence to the terminal to get it to > change and update VMS. I do not think you can get the real terminal width from a lexical. But a program can ask the terminal for the info. See code below. Arne PS: That code require a damn good terminal emulator to work ! =========================================================== #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include int main() { short int chan,iosb[4]; int h,w; char inq[]="\x1B[\"v"; char buf[80]; char *p1,*p2,*p3; $DESCRIPTOR(ttdesc,"TT:"); sys$assign(&ttdesc,&chan,0,0); sys$qiow(0,chan,IO$_WRITEVBLK,0,0,0,inq,strlen(inq),0,0,0,0); sys$qiow(0,chan,IO$_READVBLK|IO$M_NOECHO|IO$M_TIMED,iosb,0,0, &buf,sizeof(buf),2,0,0,0); sys$qiow(0,chan,IO$_READVBLK|IO$M_NOECHO|IO$M_TIMED,iosb,0,0, &buf,sizeof(buf),2,0,0,0); buf[iosb[1]]='\0'; sys$dassgn(chan); p1=buf; while(!isdigit(*p1)) p1++; p2=strchr(buf,';'); p3=strchr(p1+1,';'); *p2='\0'; *p3='\0'; h=atoi(p1); w=atoi(p2+1); printf("Terminal display %d x %d\n",h,w); return SS$_NORMAL; } ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:59:34 +0200 From: Marc Van Dyck Subject: Re: OT: RIAA is now attacking NNTP server operators Message-ID: Michael Unger has brought this to us : > On 2007-10-17 20:28, "JF Mezei" wrote: > >> http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9798715-38.html >> >> RIAA is suing a NNTP provider, USENET.COM for auding people illegally >> download music. They chose USENET.COM because its marketing uncludes >> mention of the ability to download and upload MP3s. But once that >> precedent has been set, they can then sue every other NNTP server >> operator including universities etc etc. > > I don't think so -- there are many NNTP servers (including the one I'm > using) which don't carry *binary* groups. Non-textual postings (and HTML > content and attachments as well) are simply blocked. > >> [...] > > Michael Except that programs like UUENCODE and UUDECODE can allow people to post any binary object in a text-only newsgroup, can't it ? -- Marc Van Dyck ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:04:41 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: OT: RIAA is now attacking NNTP server operators Message-ID: On 10/20/07 15:59, Marc Van Dyck wrote: > Michael Unger has brought this to us : >> On 2007-10-17 20:28, "JF Mezei" wrote: >> >>> http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9798715-38.html >>> >>> RIAA is suing a NNTP provider, USENET.COM for auding people illegally >>> download music. They chose USENET.COM because its marketing uncludes >>> mention of the ability to download and upload MP3s. But once that >>> precedent has been set, they can then sue every other NNTP server >>> operator including universities etc etc. >> >> I don't think so -- there are many NNTP servers (including the one I'm >> using) which don't carry *binary* groups. Non-textual postings (and HTML >> content and attachments as well) are simply blocked. >> >>> [...] >> >> Michael > > Except that programs like UUENCODE and UUDECODE can allow people to > post any binary object in a text-only newsgroup, can't it ? That's their sole purpose, since usenet is text-only. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:45:51 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Rare job posting Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Johnson [mailto:ron.l.johnson@cox.net] > Sent: October 20, 2007 1:04 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Rare job posting > > On 10/20/07 11:02, Main, Kerry wrote: > [snip] > > > > Did not say it was a VMS win. I simply stated that in a number of > Solaris shops, Solaris > > is considered legacy and Linux is the next big thing. > > > > Even "Linux is the next big thing.." is losing steam in some quarters > as companies > > Consolidate and move back to much more centralized strategies. Heck, > even mainframe sales > > are back up again. > > Sure. Running Linux. > > -- > Ron Johnson, Jr. > Jefferson LA USA > > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! Very small subset. But you are right though - some Customers are using the mainframe as a mean= s to radically shrink the numbers of distributed UNIX, Linux and Windows servers= that have sprung up like rabbits over the years. They can not afford the management, = licensing and monthly security patch costs associated with Linux, Windows etc. that h= ave a one bus app, one OS culture. Fwiw, I expect many other Customers will be radically consolidating their c= urrent IT and adopting very centralized, very HA And very secure environments. While = the initial push is for server virtualization, the next wave after that will be App sta= cking to reduce the staffing counts associated with one bus App, one OS instance cul= tures. Hey, anybody here know of a platform environment that has very high HA, ult= ra secure OS, and extremely good App sharing and stacking technologies native to the basi= c OS design? :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:07:18 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: On 10/20/07 13:45, Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ron Johnson [mailto:ron.l.johnson@cox.net] >> Sent: October 20, 2007 1:04 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Rare job posting >> >> On 10/20/07 11:02, Main, Kerry wrote: >> [snip] >>> Did not say it was a VMS win. I simply stated that in a number of >> Solaris shops, Solaris >>> is considered legacy and Linux is the next big thing. >>> >>> Even "Linux is the next big thing.." is losing steam in some quarters >> as companies >>> Consolidate and move back to much more centralized strategies. Heck, >> even mainframe sales >>> are back up again. >> Sure. Running Linux. >> >> -- >> Ron Johnson, Jr. >> Jefferson LA USA >> >> Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. >> Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! > > Very small subset. > > But you are right though - some Customers are using the mainframe as a means to > radically shrink the numbers of distributed UNIX, Linux and Windows servers that have > sprung up like rabbits over the years. They can not afford the management, licensing > and monthly security patch costs associated with Linux, Windows etc. that have a one > bus app, one OS culture. > > Fwiw, I expect many other Customers will be radically consolidating their current IT > and adopting very centralized, very HA And very secure environments. While the initial > push is for server virtualization, the next wave after that will be App stacking to > reduce the staffing counts associated with one bus App, one OS instance cultures. I have a much lower opinion of the typical IT decision maker than you apparently do. > Hey, anybody here know of a platform environment that has very high HA, ultra secure OS, > and extremely good App sharing and stacking technologies native to the basic OS design? > > :-) -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 04:05:01 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Rare job posting Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Johnson [mailto:ron.l.johnson@cox.net] > Sent: October 20, 2007 5:07 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Rare job posting > > On 10/20/07 13:45, Main, Kerry wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ron Johnson [mailto:ron.l.johnson@cox.net] > >> Sent: October 20, 2007 1:04 PM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> Subject: Re: Rare job posting > >> [snip..] > > > > Fwiw, I expect many other Customers will be radically consolidating > their current IT > > and adopting very centralized, very HA And very secure environments. > While the initial > > push is for server virtualization, the next wave after that will be > App stacking to > > reduce the staffing counts associated with one bus App, one OS > instance cultures. > > I have a much lower opinion of the typical IT decision maker than > you apparently do. > Well, something to keep in mind that is very high on the minds of the typic= al IT decision maker today.. forget the OS religion - either they drastically red= uce the costs associated with their IT environment or they will be outsourced. Nothing complicated about that. Drastically reduce real IT costs (as oppose= d to perceived costs) or be outsourced. Period. And server virtualization with strategies like VMware, Zen, Linux on mainfr= ame etc do not touch the IT staffing part of the IT budget which represents approx = 70% of the overall IT budget. Hence, imho, the blood letting in terms of future platform decisions is abo= ut to get much messier than in the past. The one bus app, one OS instance culture is in for some real shocks. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.575 ************************