INFO-VAX Sun, 21 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 576 Contents: RE: .NET Mono for VMS ANN: .NET Mono for VMS Re: bug in SHOW STATUS Re: bug in SHOW STATUS Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Damn whistle-blowers! (Was: Glass Fish gravy) Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems RE: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:10:31 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: .NET Mono for VMS Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com] > Sent: October 21, 2007 6:48 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: ANN: .NET Mono for VMS > > Hi, > > How many people would be interested in running .NET Mono on OpenVMS, > Alpha > or Integrity? Of those, how many would want to: > > 1. use OpenVMS as a host for their .NET Clients > 2. use OpenVMS as a host for their .NET Servers > 3. both of the above > > "Mono" is an Open Source initiative. We have port(ing)ed it to OpenVMS > 8.3 on Alpha and Integrity to try and justify our existence (nothing > better > to > do...*literally*). > > See: - > http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page > [snip...] Richard, Thx for pointer - I had not heard about this Mono project .. very interesti= ng. Quick thought - are you planning to simply get Mono to run on OpenVMS or as= part of the port, adopt it to take advantage of some of the strengths of O= penVMS i.e. A-A clustering, high security etc? See my earlier posts on future challenges associated with Windows/Linux one= bus app, one OS instances. Would be nice to have a place to park some of t= hese Apps on a multi-app sharing, high security platform. Many of these App= s today have no DR/DT associated with them, but many Cust's are struggling = to find ways to add DT to them (and its not a pretty site). :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:48:11 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: ANN: .NET Mono for VMS Message-ID: Hi, How many people would be interested in running .NET Mono on OpenVMS, Alpha or Integrity? Of those, how many would want to: 1. use OpenVMS as a host for their .NET Clients 2. use OpenVMS as a host for their .NET Servers 3. both of the above "Mono" is an Open Source initiative. We have port(ing)ed it to OpenVMS 8.3 on Alpha and Integrity to try and justify our existence (nothing better to do...*literally*). See: - http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page We at Team-IMM have become increasingly irritated at the smart-arses and tattle-tales out there that have seen fit to inform the audience at large that the "Great Oz" of HP VMS Consultancy Fees is just another useless wanker talking into a loud-speaker! But more importantly, our JFTB revenue stream, that we had lined up for the next six months (in the form of Glass Fish), has suddenly disappeared because Arne et al have pointed out that we didn't in fact saw our lovely assistant in half, and that it was all smoke and mirrors, so for our next trick we've had to come up with something completely hackneyed - and that, ladies and gentlemen, is .NET Mono! "Mono" is our chance to "leverage the affinity" (where have you heard that before?) between our two great OSs. Obviously, it would be imprudent to put all [y]our eggs in the Scott McNealy basket so we at IMM have decided to continue our history of full-blown support for COM (somehow skiiping COM+ and Managed Services along the road) all the way to .NET. Remember! - UNIX is the enemy, Eurasia has *always* been the enemy! So all that one or two of you have to do is simply reply to this post and that's all the authorization me and my buddies need to spend a couple of million of your lovely VMS license dollars on our (Glass Fish replacement) retirement plan. Please make it so. C'mon, VMS doesn't have long left and just 'cos you're suffering doesn't mean we all should; what are you - communists? We at IMM were born to rule you stinking pigs - so just cough up and get on with it; maybe they really are showers? Cheers, VMS Middle Management Carpet-Bagger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 02:49:54 -0400 From: Robert Deininger Subject: Re: bug in SHOW STATUS Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > This has been around forever, but only shows up on a fast machine: Yes, it's been around for more than 30 years. Mr. Cutler dated this module 15-Apr-77. > Elapsed CPU :17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00 > > In other words, if it is zero, it is interpreted as an absolute time > rather than a delta time. This is still not fixed in 8.3. > > I doubt it causes anyone trouble, but it would be nice if it were fixed, > just to indicate that someone still cares. :-) Nor is it fixed in V8.3-1H1. $ spawn/nolog/nokey/nological/nosymbol show status is failing about 70% of the time on one of my rx3600 systems, and nearly as much on an Alphaserver GS1280. A 466 MHz DS10 is failing about 17% of the time. I've queued up a fix for the next release (likely V8.4 Alpha & I64). Happy 30th Anniversary! -- Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 05:14:41 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: bug in SHOW STATUS Message-ID: <463f0$471b1882$cef8887a$311@TEKSAVVY.COM> Robert Deininger wrote: > Yes, it's been around for more than 30 years. Mr. Cutler dated this > module 15-Apr-77. > >> Elapsed CPU :17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00 Back then, the speed of computers probably made it impossible to have a process end in less than a millisecond. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 05:57:38 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <1192971458.338430.58200@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com> On Oct 20, 7:49 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Doug Phillips wrote: > > ### > > > "What the hell does that have to do with VMS?" > > -- Origin Unknown > > > ##### > > The church of VAX worshippers still exists. Proof at: > > http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/vax-temple.gif > > There are rumours of a VMS worshippers also existing. Apparently, they > need to SET PROC/SUSP twice a day and then kneel down in the direction > of ZKO and pray to beg for the survival of VMS and its porting to a > viable platform. Do they pray twice a day to honour the god of the binary realm? BYW, it just occurred to me that the god of VMS is triune: VAX, Alpha, Itanium. I hope this observation doesn't incur the the wrath of Bob's cult. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:35:04 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Damn whistle-blowers! (Was: Glass Fish gravy) Message-ID: Hi Arne, > I don't think Glassfish is particular interesting from a market > perspective. Yes, well we all know that, (thanks very much) but the whole point of the exercise, for those at the IMM team at least, was being able to bill many man-months (and several million dollars) of VMS porting effort, as well as subsequent consultancy fees, before coming to the inevitable conclusion that GoldFish was either inappropriate or redundant functionality and that all deliverables should be suspended indefinately. What will those International Men of Mystery do now? Cheers Richard Maher "Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message news:47180c18$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > Richard Maher wrote: > > How many people would be interested in running Glass Fish on OpenVMS, Alpha > > or Integrity? > > Of those, how many would want to: > > > > 1. use OpenVMS as a host for their Glass Fish Application Server > > 2. Have free beer for the rest of their lives > > 3. both of the above > > > > Glass Fish is an Open Source initiative. We have port(ing)ed it to OpenVMS > > 8.3 > > on Alpha and Integrity to try and justify our existence (nothing better to > > do...*literally*). > > I don't think Glassfish is particular interesting from a market > perspective. > > The big players in that market are: > 1) IBM WebSphere AS (commercial) > 2) BEA WebLogic (commercial) > 3) Redhat JBoss (open source) > 4) Oracle AS (commercial) > > #3 runs on VMS. #2 used to be available for VMS - I assume > that it still is. #1 is not available for VMS. I have never heard > about #4 on VMS, but Oracle do support VMS for a lot of their > products so maybe. > > 2 (maybe 3) out of 4 is not bad. > > Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:40:12 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Message-ID: Hi Arne, > It is something that Compaq/HP management could have discussed > with Oracle. > > (They still can, but it is very late) Do you reakon there's just the odd chance that someone else (at HP) has thought of that? Me? I'm happy that VMS is at least a top notch Orrible DB platform, whatever it cost! (In addition to gifting them Rdb of course) > > The effort to port a Java app to VMS should not be that big. Rollin' off a log really. . .Absolutely *NO* VMS specifics/idiosyncrasies required :-) Performance guranteed! > All the open source app servers seem to be ported to VMS. So who exactly's supporting all this stuff on VMS? (And how much does it cost?) Oh, I get it; this is what the IMM get paid for. So that's their Terms-of-Reference? Cheers Richard Maher "Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message news:471a9cd6$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: > > On Oct 18, 9:44 pm, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > >> The big players in that market are: > >> 1) IBM WebSphere AS (commercial) > >> 2) BEA WebLogic (commercial) > >> 3) Redhat JBoss (open source) > >> 4) Oracle AS (commercial) > > >> I have never heard > >> about #4 on VMS, but Oracle do support VMS for a lot of their > >> products so maybe. > > > Oracle AS is not available for OpenVMS. Oracle's position is that > > while OpenVMS can be used as the database server, you must use > > Windows, Linux or certain flavors of Unix (Solaris, AIX, HP-UX) for > > the middleware platform. > > > > I do not know if this is set in stone or subject to change. > > It is something that Compaq/HP management could have discussed > with Oracle. > > (They still can, but it is very late) > > The effort to port a Java app to VMS should not be that big. > > All the open source app servers seem to be ported to VMS. > > Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:21:37 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Message-ID: Hi Arne, > > The reasent VMS Tech Update said : > > " BEA Weblogic – 8.1 SP3 on Alpha and Integrity > > - No new versions currently planned, > > - we’re plan JBOSS as alternative " > > :-( Shame to get as far as having first Tuxedo (XA) and then Weblogic on VMS only to let them disappear(?) but I imagine BEA drives a hard bargain. (And as most/all the existing VMS client base just wanted (*AND STILL WANTS*) a simple way to put world class GUIs on their existing 3GL +/- ACMS applications, I imagine there'll be few tears shed) What were the sales figures and installed base? Let's see: - Free Linux Penguin + GMail/openoffice/Yahoo-toolkit + MySQL + Choice of App-server (on cheap hardware) -vs- Expensive Quacking VMS, ham-strung Apache and marketed by IMM with plastic bill and flippers, whilst enjoying a disappearing ISV base. So how's everything panning out anyway? Certainly no one can accuse you guys of not knowing your market :-( Whatever you do, just keep treating your "legacy" customers with the same contempt you've shown for them over the last 15 years - If nothing else, you'll soon get what's comin' to ya! Cheers Richard Maher PS. I vaguely recall (Imagine?) that WebSphere was destend for VMS at one stage, no? "Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message news:471a9c07$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > > Arne Vajhøj wrote: > >> The big players in that market are: > >> 1) IBM WebSphere AS (commercial) > >> 2) BEA WebLogic (commercial) > >> 3) Redhat JBoss (open source) > >> 4) Oracle AS (commercial) > > >> #2 used to be available for VMS - I assume > >> that it still is. > > > > The reasent VMS Tech Update said : > > " BEA Weblogic – 8.1 SP3 on Alpha and Integrity > > - No new versions currently planned, > > - we’re plan JBOSS as alternative " > > :-( > > Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:12:24 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Message-ID: Hi Arne, > I think we can assume that is one of the first things the people working > on JIT compilation have considered. But not Kerry and John it seems? Regards Richard Maher "Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message news:471aca37$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > Richard Maher wrote: > >> John's note on alignment is a good point. > > > > How exactly would one specify alignment with Java? Are you talking primitive > > data types only or all objects? > > > > I'm guessing that the underlying memory structures for each object and its > > attributes are naturally aligned by the JVM (And whatever the Garbage > > Collector does) but hey, without real addresses to srutinoze, who knows? > > I think we can assume that is one of the first things the people working > on JIT compilation have considered. > > Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:36:51 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Message-ID: <471B39D3.4030307@comcast.net> Ron Johnson wrote: > On 10/20/07 22:38, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > [snip] > >>Typical home PC's have 2-4 GB (and when the driver situation for > > > You're kidding, right? > Maybe HIS PC has that much RAM. Mine has 1GB which seems to be sufficient. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:49:33 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard B. Gilbert [mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net] > Sent: October 21, 2007 7:37 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Guidance with OpenVMS IA64 8.3 with Java 1.5 Problems > > Ron Johnson wrote: > > On 10/20/07 22:38, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > > [snip] > > > >>Typical home PC's have 2-4 GB (and when the driver situation for > > > > > > You're kidding, right? > > > > Maybe HIS PC has that much RAM. Mine has 1GB which seems to be > sufficient. Well, fwiw, a colleague is running 3GB memory on his new duo cpu laptop wit= h Vista and he is frustrated that it is still slower than his old laptop wi= th XP. As most readers of this list know, memory is only one of the issues associa= ted with making stuff run well on a multi CPU system. Tuned application and= OS support of features such as threading, SMP interlocking, CPU cache thra= shing are but a few of other things that if not implemented very well will = result in dismal overall performance. How many desktop App's and Vista OS kernel things have been fine tuned to h= andle these types of things? Some games? Perhaps, but then there are the graphic and NIC drivers on top = of them as well. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.576 ************************