INFO-VAX Mon, 29 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 591 Contents: Re: Disapearing file ! Re: Disapearing file ! Re: Disapearing file ! Englanders fleeing socialized healthcare in record numbers! Re: Englanders fleeing socialized healthcare in record numbers! Re: EST Fubar Re: EST Fubar Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Re: Martin Fink Webcast Re: Martin Fink Webcast Re: Martin Fink Webcast Newbie directory protection question OT: Re: Englanders fleeing socialized healthcare in record numbers! Re: Standalone backup on Alpha? Re: Suggestion for MOSAIC Re: VAX hardware clock question Re: VAX hardware clock question Re: VAX hardware clock question Re: VAX hardware clock question Re: VAX hardware clock question Re: VAX hardware clock question Re: VAX hardware clock question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:47:57 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Disapearing file ! Message-ID: <94e7a$4724d95e$cef8887a$15084@TEKSAVVY.COM> Peter Weaver wrote: > What does DFU SEARCH disk/FILE=MOZILLA.COM/FULL tell you? mc dfu search $11$dqb0:/file=MOZILLA.COM;5/full %DFU-I-SEARCH, Start search on $11$DQB0: ($11$DQB0:) %DFU-I-EOF, End of file INDEXF.SYS, Primary headers : 36712 %DFU-S-FND , Files found : 0, Size : 0/0 $ search/stat/window=0 $11$dqb0:[000000]indexf.sys mozilla.com $11$DQB0:[000000]INDEXF.SYS;1 Files searched: 1 Buffered I/O count: 7 Records searched: 41057 Direct I/O count: 324 Characters searched: 21021184 Page faults: 18 Records matched: 1 Elapsed CPU time: 0 00:00:00.76 Lines printed: 1 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:08.56 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:54:33 -0400 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: Re: Disapearing file ! Message-ID: <1cd601c819c6$459598b0$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP> > Does anyone know of a tool to report on a file found in INDEXF.SYS to dump > all the data for that record and possibly dump the blocks associated with > that file ? (perhaps the contents have not been overwitten even if > allocated to another file ?) I did some checking and DFU SEARCH will not find a file if it has been deleted even if the record is in INDEXF.SYS. But if you download Fekko Stubbe's DIX (every VMS system should have DFU, DIX and Kermit installed as soon as possible) from http://oooovms.dyndns.org/ you can get all the information that INDEXF had about the file; $ DIX $11$dqb0:[000000]indexf.sys mozilla.com /DECWINDOWS From that you can get the LBN of the file then; $ DUMP /BLOCKS=(START:lbn1,END:lbn2) $11$dqb0: If the INDEXF.SYS record has not been overwritten yet and if the blocks have not been overwritten then you have your file back. But the chances of both still being there are slim on most systems. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca CHARON-VAX CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail HP Commercial Hardware ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 05:59:29 +0100 From: "Martin Vorlaender" Subject: Re: Disapearing file ! Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Question: > > Given a LBN on a disk, is there an easy way to find out to which file = it > belongs ? (in my case, I would like to know the creation date of the > file that ended up overwriting my file) DFU SEARCH /LBN /LBN=3Dlogical-block-number The /LBN option is a special qualifier which allows to find a file which contains a specific logical block number. Note that this qualifier cannot be combined with other search qualifiers (such as /FILE=3D). cu, Martin -- = One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de One OS to bring them all | http://vms.pdv-systeme.de/users/martin= v/ And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:10:21 -0000 From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Englanders fleeing socialized healthcare in record numbers! Message-ID: <1193602221.957380.62710@z9g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> looks like India is becoming popular for not only vms support but surgery for Britans people as well ... this is the same socialized healthcare system Hillary wants to give you ... read and learn ... http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58379 ------------------------------ Date: 28 Oct 2007 21:46:45 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Englanders fleeing socialized healthcare in record numbers! Message-ID: In article <1193602221.957380.62710@z9g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes: Please take your continual off-topic posts to newsgroups where they are relevant. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:54:25 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: EST Fubar Message-ID: Neil Rieck wrote: > Timezone FYI, > > This morning (Sunday Oct 28) I got a call about a Solaris application > that desided to transition from EDT to EST a week early. Couple weeks ago, I installed a new thermostat to save energy. The PDF I have foudn on the net provided listing of the "register" values that could be set and had 0 for no automatic DST, and 1 for automatic DST. So I set it to "1" since I had just bought this thermostat and figured it would be according to current rules of EST/DST. It changed time this morning anyways. This time, I checked the printed manual to get the register number so I could disable it, and low and behold, the printed manual showed a possible value of 2 for DST changes for 2007 and beyond ! Interesting that the printed manual had been updated, but not the on-line PDFs ! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:03:02 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: EST Fubar Message-ID: <47253175$0$21931$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> JF Mezei wrote: > Neil Rieck wrote: >> Timezone FYI, >> >> This morning (Sunday Oct 28) I got a call about a Solaris application >> that desided to transition from EDT to EST a week early. > > Couple weeks ago, I installed a new thermostat to save energy. The > PDF I have foudn on the net provided listing of the "register" values > that could be set and had 0 for no automatic DST, and 1 for automatic > DST. So I set it to "1" since I had just bought this thermostat and > figured it would be according to current rules of EST/DST. > > It changed time this morning anyways. This time, I checked the printed > manual to get the register number so I could disable it, and low and > behold, the printed manual showed a possible value of 2 for DST > changes for 2007 and beyond ! > > Interesting that the printed manual had been updated, but not the > on-line PDFs ! Today I looked at my SQLServer Job logs, there was a job scheduled for 03:00 this morning, which of course started on time, but finished before it started. This resulted in a VERY bizarre duration value in the log. Dr. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 17:52:24 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: Ron Johnson wrote: > It's *not* rocket science. DEC engineers figured out 23 years ago > how to do a "hot" backup of a relational database. (It just a read > only transaction...) > It's not the R/O trans as such that is the key here. It's the way the R/O trans is run, that is in an non-locking, repateable-read transaction. Very few other DBMS's can do that, they lack whatever is needed in the engine (like the snapshot handling). MS SQLserv can't. MySQL can't (if you don't shadow the whole database...) Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:56:31 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <47252fef$0$21925$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Ken Robinson wrote: > On 10/28/07, Dr. Dweeb wrote (in part): >> I have not seen any evidence of this new campaign. Some references >> would be nice. > > Neither have I, that's why I found that quote interesting. > >> >> Hey, I have a very large SQLServer envornment running on DELLs that >> is a PITA, and I would love to convert to VMS/Rdb - it would solve >> so many issues I have in terms of uptime and management, but most >> significantly, backup/recover and disatser recovery and tolerance - >> but you know what? I have the budget, the authority and the >> repsonsibility - but cannot bring myself to even go through the >> process of doing the CostBenefit and migration alayses, because in >> the end, I have no faith in HP - zero, noth, nada. >> >> And where would I find a systems manager to set it up, and run it? >> They are few and far between, and no one I know who has left the VMS >> world has any intention of returning (and yes, I asked 2 or 3 I >> know). > > If you can't find an experienced System Manager, train a new one. All > of the people who are/have been VMS System Managers didn't come fully > trained in their first positions. We learned via formal training, on > the job training, at DECUS symposiums (now VMS Boot Camp), and later > by using on-line resources. > You realise of course how galactically inappropriate that comment is? > Yes, the experienced VMS System Managers are few and far between, but > we are out here and many would jump at the chance to do a migration TO > VMS. > Maybe, I will find out should I ever get that far. > BTW, my contract just got extended for another 6 months, so I may be > available at the end of June. Where are you located?? :-) > > Ken Actually, finding as SQLServer DBA with a clue is not easy either, but i digress ... Like I wrote, my faith in HP is approaching zero, so there will be no VMS in my life any time soon (or jobs). The big issue is the level of interdependence between the bits of the environment. It's not just a "replace the engine" deal. There is quite a bit that would need to be rewritten, at the same time that the business is expanding - a non-trivial problem. My current task is to get the current environment stabilised and somewhat leaner, after that I "may" consider other long-term options. By then we will have SQLServer 2008 which is going to offer almost no engine improvements, just more crapola on top. btw - we don't do Java, we do .NET and all the stuff that goes with it (IIS, c# etc. etc.) In the end it would be a question of money and how willing the board would be to pay for the security and operational advantages another environment would offer. Not very, I suspect. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:22:00 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Dr. Dweeb [mailto:spam@dweeb.net] > Sent: October 29, 2007 8:57 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young > [snip..] > btw - we don't do Java, we do .NET and all the stuff that goes with it > (IIS, > c# etc. etc.) > > In the end it would be a question of money and how willing the board > would > be to pay for the security and operational advantages another > environment > would offer. Not very, I suspect. > > Dweeb > Sorry, could not resist .. before anyone will admit to past mistakes, it us= ually takes an incident like Skype (few days downtime - how would you like to tell the = board why your company was down for 2 days) or any number of other public incidents, = before the board forces IT to re-consider. http://tinyurl.com/38upcr Skype: It was all Microsoft's fault http://tinyurl.com/2plncm "More than 220 million users were without a service yesterday after the hug= ely successful system developed what the outfit initially called a 'software error'. Since= Skype is made up entirely of software such an announcement was as useful as a chocolate t= eapot and angered may users who have based their businesses on the software." http://tinyurl.com/379ywl Russian PDF attacks surge; Microsoft takes blame "The reason Microsoft is involved is that while the current attacks are bas= ed on malformed PDFs, the real vulnerability lies in Windows XP and Windows Serve= r 2003 code, not in Adobe's" Lots of other recent examples, but you know all this anyway .. However, on the positive side: http://www.vista-control.com/itanium_success.htm Los Alamos, February 15th. 2007 After implementing mission-critical systems= on Windows- based computers for many years, a customer experienced a virus in one of th= ese systems that shut down production for two days while the infected systems were diag= nosed, restored and tested. The impact was that plant production was severely impa= cted at no small cost. Despite internal opposition because of the established standard= , Vsystem on HP Itanium servers running OpenVMS was chosen for the next system to be = replaced." :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:01:52 -0400 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <47254D20.4000603@comcast.net> Main, Kerry wrote: [...] > However, on the positive side: > http://www.vista-control.com/itanium_success.htm > Los Alamos, February 15th. 2007 After implementing mission-critical systems on Windows- > based computers for many years, a customer experienced a virus in one of these systems > that shut down production for two days while the infected systems were diagnosed, > restored and tested. The impact was that plant production was severely impacted at no > small cost. Despite internal opposition because of the established standard, Vsystem > on HP Itanium servers running OpenVMS was chosen for the next system to be replaced." This is a nice story - I just wish that whoever wrote it had more than a passing acquaintance with English; in particular, the last sentence could be interpreted as meaning, "Vsystem on ... Itanium will be the next system replaced". A clearer form of the sentence would be, "Vsystem on HP Itanium servers running OpenVMS was (were?) chosen to replace the failing systems, despite internal opposition from supporters of the established standard." :-) I also noted under the "Supported Platforms" link that the page lists all the different platforms that support Vsystem (including OpenVMS); if you look at the bottom of that page, you will see all sorts of trademark information for the different platforms, *except for* OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX; we all know that HP (and its predecessors) failed to retain trademark rights to the names, thereby missing yet another chance to keep HP, OpenVMS, and Tru64UNIX in the minds of the computing "public". Apologies for being such a buzz-kill on the 30th anniversary, but I'm not the only one. I note that many people (including myself) were inspired by Dweeb's "what if..." musings, only to be rudely brought back to Earth by reality - a inconvenient reality that many here wish would just go away. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 03:28:35 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: bradhamilton [mailto:bradhamilton@comcast.net] > Sent: October 28, 2007 11:02 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young > > Main, Kerry wrote: > [...] > > However, on the positive side: > > http://www.vista-control.com/itanium_success.htm > > Los Alamos, February 15th. 2007 After implementing mission-critical > systems on Windows- > > based computers for many years, a customer experienced a virus in one > of these systems > > that shut down production for two days while the infected systems > were diagnosed, > > restored and tested. The impact was that plant production was > severely impacted at no > > small cost. Despite internal opposition because of the established > standard, Vsystem > > on HP Itanium servers running OpenVMS was chosen for the next system > to be replaced." > > This is a nice story - I just wish that whoever wrote it had more than > a > passing acquaintance with English; in particular, the last sentence > could be interpreted as meaning, "Vsystem on ... Itanium will be the > next system replaced". > > A clearer form of the sentence would be, "Vsystem on HP Itanium servers > running OpenVMS was (were?) chosen to replace the failing systems, > despite internal opposition from supporters of the established > standard." :-) > > I also noted under the "Supported Platforms" link that the page lists > all the different platforms that support Vsystem (including OpenVMS); > if > you look at the bottom of that page, you will see all sorts of > trademark > information for the different platforms, *except for* OpenVMS and Tru64 > UNIX; we all know that HP (and its predecessors) failed to retain > trademark rights to the names, thereby missing yet another chance to > keep HP, OpenVMS, and Tru64UNIX in the minds of the computing "public". > > Apologies for being such a buzz-kill on the 30th anniversary, but I'm > not the only one. I note that many people (including myself) were > inspired by Dweeb's "what if..." musings, only to be rudely brought > back > to Earth by reality - a inconvenient reality that many here wish would > just go away. Hey, baby steps lead to walking which leads to running :-) And it may be just my albeit biased perception, but with the massive moves = to recentralize IT environments now happening, security, stability and availab= ility seems to be getting much more attention these days. Here is another Sept 2007 mission critical story with SCADA: http://www.availabilitydigest.com/public_articles/0209/qei.pdf extract - "The Master Station runs on HP OpenVMS blades or towers. It can b= e configured as a standalone system or in a dual, triple, or quadruple modular redundanc= y configuration, as described later." Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:07:22 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Message-ID: <_Z5Vi.202$vI3.97@newsfe12.lga> In article , Stephen Hoffman writes: > > >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> I don't like using telnet over the internet. Is there a way to get ssh to >> startup on weendoze? I didn't see anything in the {Services} window about >> ssh. > >AFAIK, ssh server and ssh client are available as an add-on prior to >Microsoft Windows Vista. > >CopSSH and OpenSSH are some of the server choices around, and PuTTY and >other similar tools can provide client ssh. > >VPNs are a typical approach for protecting telnet, SMB and other >Microsoft Windows protocols. Folks are generally not using IPv6 and >IPSec, but that's another approach. > >Linux, Mac OS X and Unix platforms -- and recent OpenVMS with TCP/IP >stacks -- typically have ssh client and server capabilities baked in. >As JF has discovered, Mac OS X has a telnet server, but requires an >explicit management command to enable it. > >http://help.lockergnome.com/windows/help-setting-SSH-Server-Windows-XP-ftopict583194.html Thanks Hoff. I'll look into it. Since Weendoze has no security I expected that ssh would be an after thought add-on package. :( -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 01:47:42 GMT From: Bob Harris Subject: Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Message-ID: In article , Stephen Hoffman wrote: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > > I don't like using telnet over the internet. Is there a way to get ssh to > > startup on weendoze? I didn't see anything in the {Services} window about > > ssh. > > AFAIK, ssh server and ssh client are available as an add-on prior to > Microsoft Windows Vista. > > CopSSH and OpenSSH are some of the server choices around, and PuTTY and > other similar tools can provide client ssh. > > VPNs are a typical approach for protecting telnet, SMB and other > Microsoft Windows protocols. Folks are generally not using IPv6 and > IPSec, but that's another approach. > > Linux, Mac OS X and Unix platforms -- and recent OpenVMS with TCP/IP > stacks -- typically have ssh client and server capabilities baked in. > As JF has discovered, Mac OS X has a telnet server, but requires an > explicit management command to enable it. > > http://help.lockergnome.com/windows/help-setting-SSH-Server-Windows-XP-ftopict > 583194.html Also look into Hamachi You can use it to create a VPN between any number of systems, and those systems can be Windows, Macs, or Linux. Hamachi does not require any advanced registration. It works easily across Home NAT style routers without the need for Fixed IPs, or Dynamic DNS or knowing the current DHCP IP address. For Macs I suggest HamachiX which is a Mac OS X GUI on top of the Hamachi Unix compiled command line interface >http://hamachix.spaceants.net/> Bob Harris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:38:25 -0600 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Message-ID: <1193625119_15179@sp12lax.superfeed.net> Ron Johnson wrote: > On 10/27/07 22:19, Jeff Campbell wrote: >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> In article <1193518317_13445@sp12lax.superfeed.net>, Jeff Campbell >>> writes: >>> {...snip...} >>>>> When the VNC server dies on the Weendoze box, how to you access it >>>>> to restore your accessibility? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Telnet in and restart. 8-) >>> There is a cli command to do this? Please, do tell. This periodic >>> VNC server death is maddening. >> Log in as administrator and issue: >> >> net start winvnc4 >> >> which starts the service. > > Only if there's someone there to log in at the console... > >> net start >> >> will show you the currently running services. > > Which part of 'Telnet in' don't you understand? 8-) 8-) Jeff ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:11:06 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: Main, Kerry wrote: >> From: IanMiller... >> > > At this years bootcamp and at previous bootcamp there was no interest >> from attendees in upgrading vms more than once a year, and in fact >> once a year was too often for some people. (There is a lot of work in >> upgrading a operating system version on a live production system.) >> >> This is consistent with HP's position that a new release every 18-24 >> months fits with what customers want. > > > And lets put things in perspective - the upgrade from Windows XP SP2 to Vista was > approximately 3+ years as I recall. > > Windows 2003 to V.Next will be in the same range (might be longer). The most recent major release cycle (8.2 to 8.3) on OpenVMS on Alpha and Itanium was about 1.5 years or so. (Not counting maintenance releases nor hardware releases in that, obviously. Nor OpenVMS VAX.) 2.5 years for the most recent Mac OS X; from Tiger 10.4 to Leopard 10.5. Linux provides anything from the "dailies" to the distribution formulations that target stability and support. Probably the biggest difference across these platforms is the scale of the upgrades involved, and the packaging of the many and varied pieces (eg: web servers, file services, networking, etc) involved. OS upgrades are a continuum. As are user and software environments. The requirements and expectations and cycles are unique; each site differs. Though release cycles and release intervals are a bit of a canard. Releases and release cycles are just numbers embedded on ephemera, lacking specific meaning, Release contents and changes are the real consideration here; components such as the Apache and LightTPD web servers, languages such as Ruby, php and perl, databases such as MySQL, PostgreSQL and SQLite, etc. UI tools including the native interface and the browser DOM tools. The OS version and even the OS itself is of decreasing interest and of decreasing relevance; the tools and applications further up the stack are increasingly central. How many of us are still choosing to use platform-specific tools and interfaces if a viable open or standard interface or command or application alternative exists, after all? The OS applications are an increasingly large part of an OS (version) system upgrade and of upgrade-related and application-level testing, and -- if and when a customer decides upon it -- of a platform port. And it is these OS-level applications that are an increasing part of a typical OS upgrade; that either drive the upgrade, or that can limit it. And then there's the "fun" of how all of these increasingly important components are all off-cycle in an OS release, something that can drive an inexperienced release manager or business manager, well, bonkers. But I digress. If you're locked into a platform -- and this can be locked into an application such as a web server, or locked into an operating system -- you're left with a business decision around the cost of upgrading and the cost of porting, and (and this can be the nasty one; like staying on older software and older hardware becoming increasingly expensive) the cost of lost opportunities from the unavailability of newer tools and mechanisms. Upon re-reading all of this text, I'll probably turn this message into a blog posting. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 15:01:43 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: <3f0bf$4724dc98$cef8887a$15760@TEKSAVVY.COM> Stephen Hoffman wrote: > Releases and release cycles are just numbers embedded on ephemera, > lacking specific meaning, Actually, there a meaning when you are looking are serious applications. When a bank buys a big applications for its mainframe to deal with millions of dollars, that application comes with a pedigree of requirements and has been tested/certified to run on a specific configuration of version for each OS/middleware that are required. An OS that is a constantly moving target in terms of updates/upgrades/patches makes it harder for an ISV to certify an appplication for that OS. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:21:23 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Stephen Hoffman wrote: >> Releases and release cycles are just numbers embedded on ephemera, >> lacking specific meaning, > > Actually, there a meaning when you are looking are serious applications. > > When a bank buys a big applications for its mainframe to deal with > millions of dollars, that application comes with a pedigree of > requirements and has been tested/certified to run on a specific > configuration of version for each OS/middleware that are required. > > An OS that is a constantly moving target in terms of > updates/upgrades/patches makes it harder for an ISV to certify an > appplication for that OS. You're certainly very close to understanding how this delegation of responsibility and the related marketing and version-numbering works, but not quite there yet. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 21:19:01 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Newbie directory protection question Message-ID: <74348$47253506$cef8887a$8339@TEKSAVVY.COM> With NFS having screwed with some directroy protection on my system, and after Mozilla screwed with some of my files, it started to ussue plenty of file protection OPCOM messages about directory files, I need to review this. Is is correct to state that 000000.DIR should be: 000000.DIR;1 [1,1] (RWED,RWED,RE,E) Also, say I have user's login as: $disk2:[users.jdoe] What protection should $disk2:[000000]users.dir have ? I don't want to have janedoe be able to do a DIR $DISK2:[USERS] to find out which other usernames exist on that system by looking at all the user sys$loin directories). Is it correct to state that: $disk2:[users]jdoe.dir should belong to jdoe, that he should have rwe acces to it, and the world/group should have no access to it ? If I, as jdoe do a $DIR $disk2:[users.jdoe] what access do I need to [000000]users.dir ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:00:32 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: OT: Re: Englanders fleeing socialized healthcare in record numbers! Message-ID: <472530e0$0$21928$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: > looks like India is becoming popular for not only vms support but > surgery for Britans people as well ... this is the same socialized > healthcare system Hillary wants to give you ... read and learn ... > > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58379 Actually, "medical tourism" is big business in Asia. There are regular articles in major publications, mostly about *Americans* going to Thailand (or wherever) for procedures. There have been articles in Newsweek and I think Time. http://www.bumrungrad.com/Overseas-Medical-Care/Bumrungrad-International.aspx This is the major 5-star hospital in Bangkok. And to bring it on topic, they are an MS and SQLServer shop. Dr. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 01:28:45 -0400 From: "Carl Friedberg" Subject: Re: Standalone backup on Alpha? Message-ID: <890539d90710282228l26bbed04n760c02dcc59e03d3@mail.gmail.com> I do disk to disk backups (on my AlphaServer 800's) using backup/data=compress. I am pretty sure that the V8.3 CDrom can't read those backup savesets (that format did not exist when 8.3 was released AFAIK). So, to be safe, I did this: (1) shut down, booted from 8.3 CDrom. [DKA400:] (2) did a backup of a second disk (DKA200:, with a lot of free space) onto a saveset on third disk DKA300: with even more free space (Backup /image /verify) (3) did a backup/image/verify of system disk to the second disk (disk to disk, wiping out the previous contents). BACKUP /IMAGE /VERIFY DKA0: DKA200: (4) booted from DKA200:, changed label back to previous label; edit startup files. (5) restored contents of DKA200: from the saveset on DKA300: One or two issues around certain system/security files, but it worked fine. I obviously did NOT use /IMAGE when I restored the saveset from DKA300. Now, if the system disk croaks, I can boot from DKA200: and restore a compressed saveset from DKA300: (a 300GB drive which holds a lot of backup savesets). to DKA0: I've tested this and it works as expected. A small benefit: booting from a SCSI disk is so much faster than booting the VMS distribution from CDrom. HTH. Carl Friedberg ------------------------------ Date: 28 Oct 07 19:48:40 EDT From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) Subject: Re: Suggestion for MOSAIC Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > Running Mosaic 4-2. > > It would be very convenient to have behave as with mozilla and > close the current window. (note that SAFARI uses the key-W as well > (except KEY=COMMAND instead of CTRL) Changing the line: case XK_Escape: to: case XK_w: if (!(event->xkey.state & ControlMask)) break; case XK_Escape: in GUI.C will do what you want. George Cook WVNET ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:50:10 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: VAX hardware clock question Message-ID: <1193593810.462294.188570@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Oct 28, 8:17 am, gerr...@no.spam.mail.com wrote: > Hello everyone, > > even if I've read more than once all the relevant comp.os.vms messages > and some other online documents and FAQs, it's not very clear to me if > to be safe I should do a SET TIME some time before the 467th day since > the last time I did it (no matter which day and month), or if I should > do it anyway some time before April 11th each year, even if the system > isn't approaching the 467 days limit. > > BTW, I do know that system time runs on its own and does not reference > the hardware clock except during bootstrap and SET TIME. > > Thank you, > G. (Hobbyist system manager from Italy) If you did a clean shutdown in the same year you can skip it. You can approach Apr 11th at most twice in any given 467-day period, so the "each year" you mentioned only happens at most twice. (I think it's really a 497-day period, but I'm not sure. If it's 497 then it would be more like May 11.) Consider the case in which you did your last clean shutdown or SET TIME Dec 31, 2005. Then the offset becomes 1-JAN-2005 and you're good only until approx. 11-APR-2006 or 11-MAY-2006 or so. So to be safe, every system must have a SET TIME run (whether done from a clean shutdown or not) at least once during the first few months of EVERY YEAR (which agrees with my first statement). (Note that SHUTDOWN.COM issues the command $SET TIME="''f$time()'" I think it's done this way just in case your TOYR is already out of sync with your system clock.) AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:37:26 GMT From: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com Subject: Re: VAX hardware clock question Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:50:10 -0700, AEF wrote: > You can approach Apr 11th at most twice in any given 467-day period, > so the "each year" you mentioned only happens at most twice. (I think > it's really a 497-day period, but I'm not sure. If it's 497 then it > would be more like May 11.) TOY clock is a 32 bit counter, i.e. it can count from %X00000000 to %XFFFFFFFF, ticking every 10 ms. Upon SET TIME it is initialized at %X10000000, so we have the following (in non-leap years): %XFFFFFFFF - %X10000000 = %XEFFFFFFF possible 10 ms ticks (hex.) %XEFFFFFFF = 4,026,531,839 possible 10 ms ticks (decimal) 24 * 3600 * 100 = 8,640,000 ticks a day 365 * 8,640,000 = 3,153,600,000 ticks a year 4,026,531,839 - 3,153,600,000 = 872,931,839 ticks left after 1 year 872,931,839 / 8,640,000 = 101 (rounded) remaining days before wrap 101 - (31 + 28 + 31) = 11 days in April before wrap :-) > Consider the case in which you did your last clean shutdown or SET > TIME Dec 31, 2005. Then the offset becomes 1-JAN-2005 and you're good > only until approx. 11-APR-2006 or 11-MAY-2006 or so. So to be safe, > every system must have a SET TIME run (whether done from a clean > shutdown or not) at least once during the first few months of EVERY > YEAR (which agrees with my first statement). That's a clear statement! :-) Bye, G. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:37:45 GMT From: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com Subject: Re: VAX hardware clock question Message-ID: <28p9i39aa2l8atd5okhn9h3ab86f31ato1@4ax.com> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 11:51:55 -0400, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > A VAX system manager could choose to issue the SET TIME command on a > regular schedule (eg: monthly), though it is particularly the window > between 1-Jan and approximately 11-Apr each year that is key to this > sequence; where the year value saved in the VAX TOY can be reset. Other > than within this particular window, the current year matches the year > saved in the VAX system image. Am I right if I state the following? "The TOY clock is a 32 bit counter that ticks every 10 ms and counts the time elapsed since January 1st of a given year. Because of its resolution (and considering that it starts counting at %X10000000) it would wrap around on April 11th of the year following that of last reset. Thus every year between January 1st and April 11th the counter has to be reset to the number of ticks elapsed since January 1st of that particular year." > The SET TIME command writes the time and day value to the TOY and the > full quadword time (including the year) into the SYS.EXE system image.]] When I started investigating about this subject, I found a similar statement quite confusing: I was thinking that the TOY clock counted the time elapsed since the full date stored into SYS.EXE. I think it should be noted that even if the system image contains the full time quadword, only the year part is used to determine when the TOY counter started, because it is always based upon January 1st (of the year in SYS.EXE), no matter when it was reset. Bye, G. P.S.: I'm not english native, sorry for any mistake. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 16:02:41 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VAX hardware clock question Message-ID: <53507$4724eae2$cef8887a$28225@TEKSAVVY.COM> Either the FAQ or Ask The Wizard (I think both are now under http://www.hoffmanlabs.com or on http://www.hp.com/go/vms ) have a very good explanation of the toy clock and what happens during boot to decide if the toy clock has a valid number or not. And invaliud number causes VMS to prompt for a new date/time. When booting, the system compares the TOY clock value against a value last stored on the system disk. Value on system disk is stored when you do a SET TIME from a privileged account and toy clock also is reset. The Toy value should always be higher than that stored on disk. The problem is that if you allow the toy clock to run past its bit limit, it goes back to zero and starts counting from there. But the last system time stored on disk is still a relatively high value, so if you crash and reboot, it will prompt you for time since the toy close is lower than that of system time. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 15:01:19 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: VAX hardware clock question Message-ID: <1193608879.281868.25340@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On Oct 28, 2:37 pm, gerr...@no.spam.mail.com wrote: > On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:50:10 -0700, AEF > wrote: > > > You can approach Apr 11th at most twice in any given 467-day period, > > so the "each year" you mentioned only happens at most twice. (I think > > it's really a 497-day period, but I'm not sure. If it's 497 then it > > would be more like May 11.) > > TOY clock is a 32 bit counter, i.e. it can count from %X00000000 to > %XFFFFFFFF, ticking every 10 ms. Upon SET TIME it is initialized at > %X10000000, so we have the following (in non-leap years): Why is it initialized to %X10000000? [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 18:30:56 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: VAX hardware clock question Message-ID: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com wrote: > When I started investigating about this subject, I found a similar > statement quite confusing: I was thinking that the TOY clock counted > the time elapsed since the full date stored into SYS.EXE. I think it > should be noted that even if the system image contains the full time > quadword, only the year part is used to determine when the TOY counter > started, because it is always based upon January 1st (of the year in > SYS.EXE), no matter when it was reset. There's a slight problem with the direct approach... If the full value in the Time Of Year (TOY) register was a direct bias off the full time value saved in the OpenVMS VAX system image SYS.EXE, then the time would be somewhere between slightly and seriously wrong every time you swapped a system disk, or whenever you booted standalone BACKUP. If you grab just the year from the saved value, you have a window when you can swap disks around without having the system time go weird. You'd have to reset it each time you boot a disk. This yearly-wrap design even feeds back into the register name. Time Of Year. And the acronym itself is, well, another, um, comment on the design. An acronym that is itself an early easter egg. Now would anyone design this timekeeping scheme now? No. This scheme is an ancient design, and one that bypasses a restriction or limitation in the timekeeping hardware that haven't existed in, well, twenty years or so. And all this for VAX hardware that is itself, well, ancient. Recent Standalone BACKUP kits will always prompt for the time as these kits tend to be of a different year. In earlier times, there was no prompt for the time, and there were correspondingly widespread reports of the system time being off by a year or so, triggered by the time value saved in the SYS.EXE image present in the standalone environment. Wacky TOY values are (usually) detected, and these then (also) trigger the time prompting during bootstrap. The copy of the OpenVMS FAQ located at the HP web site is about two revisions back, FWIW. The HoffmanLabs site has a newer edition. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:25:14 GMT From: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com Subject: Re: VAX hardware clock question Message-ID: <286ai3p5phslo8tdgn819b1o8tqqhffjja@4ax.com> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 15:01:19 -0700, AEF wrote: > > TOY clock is a 32 bit counter, i.e. it can count from %X00000000 to > > %XFFFFFFFF, ticking every 10 ms. Upon SET TIME it is initialized at > > %X10000000, so we have the following (in non-leap years): > > Why is it initialized to %X10000000? To be honest, I have no idea. That value is mentioned in various web pages and comp.os.vms past messages too. I think it has something to do with the ability to detect failing or failed TOY batteries. Maybe someone else on this group will shed some light on the matter. Bye, G. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.591 ************************