INFO-VAX Thu, 08 Nov 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 611 Contents: Re: Announcing: gSoap for OpenVMS blog Re: Announcing: gSoap for OpenVMS blog Re: Consolidated List of OpenVMS 30th Anniversary Articles on the Internet Int Consolidated List of OpenVMS 30th Anniversary Articles on the Internet Re: Informationweek mentions VMS 30 year anniversary Re: Informationweek mentions VMS 30 year anniversary Re: Informationweek mentions VMS 30 year anniversary Re: Informationweek mentions VMS 30 year anniversary Re: Informationweek mentions VMS 30 year anniversary Re: MOUNT /ASSIST Re: Why does DECnet Phase IV have more capabilities on VAX than on ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:32:20 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Announcing: gSoap for OpenVMS blog Message-ID: Hi Jan-Erik, > Richard Maher wrote: > > [A lot of crap included after my post...] Ah, it wasn't all bad. (And I'm not sure that I appreciate your tone :-) > - The API is XML/SOAP based. > > Now tell me, what would *you*, Mr Maher, use to access these > services from your own VMS system ? Whould you write XML/SOAP > code all from scratch ? I'd approach my supplier and their support people with a very reasonable expectation that they'd provide me with just such a mechanism/API for *integrating* with the outside world. The fact that apparently, no such supported solution exists, speaks volumes for VMS Middle-Management's attitude toward its "legacy" Procedural-3GL installed base :-( Clearly such new-fangled requirements are the exclusive domain of the hip Java dudes? But personally given these requirements, yes, rather than take a gSOAP sledge-hammer to crack a nut (and in the absence of a supported solution) I would prefer to code a supportable solution from scratch. I doubt that we're talking rocket science here and all the SSL, XML-parsing/building and a.n.other infrastructure routines are all readily available. (Sadly "C" only so I'd have to get someone in :-) But are you really being Christopher Columbus here? After all these years on VMS has noone else actually said "Hold on, I need to talk SOAP to the outside world."? My guess (recollection?) is that you're not, and if you're willing to turn you requirement around to "How do I call a Java routine from Cobol?" then there may be other options available to you. What was the exact answer from the WSIT people? The point I was making was that nobody (certainly not at HP/VMS) is particulary interested in your requirements apart from how easily they can be cynically manipulated to meet someone's own ends. You want a simple LIB$CALL_SOAP, version, xmlIn, xmlOut, and that has been transformed into a career path for an under-employed Cecil.B.DeMille cast of thousands :-( But the true insidiousness of the gSOAP functional-creep is how no one at VMS middle-management will be held accountable for the BridgeWorks debacle followed by the WSIT "Wrong again -Doh!" If they can get gSOAP onto the books before anyone realizes how much we keep wasting on all these other solutions then they might just get away with it. VMS Middle-management just doesn't do "Accountability". > I realy do not see why I should bother at all, but... Something to do while having a coffee? > Or, on a second thought, I find > your post offending enought to not concider Tier3 at all... A tad harsh. Up there with that petulant David Beckham "Kick" :-) Cheers Richard Maher "Jan-Erik Söderholm" wrote in message news:N1jYi.2$R_4.120@newsb.telia.net... > Richard Maher wrote: > > [A lot of crap included after my post...] > > I realy do not see why I should bother at all, but... > > What we have : > > - A public (auction) site that have published an "API" > to be able to run own applications against their system. > > - The API is XML/SOAP based. > > Now tell me, what would *you*, Mr Maher, use to access these > services from your own VMS system ? Whould you write XML/SOAP > code all from scratch ? > > With my current knowledge, I thought the gSOAP kit > would fit in nicely. > > *I* do not have *any* influence on the selected > technology at the actual site, of course. > > Finely, your Tier3 platform *could* be a possible alternative > at another site where both VMS server and PC clients > are in-house, but the tone in your post aren't helping your > business, that's for sure. Or, on a second thought, I find > your post offending enought to not concider Tier3 at all... > > Best Regards, > Jan-Erik. > > > > > > Hi Jan-Erik, > > > > [Before I go further; can we not please just discuss photos of the BF2000 > > spinning on a web-page while the Rdb-sourced monthly/regional sales-figures > > manipulate Flash pie/bar charts on another section of the browser? Images > > stored in the Rdb database along with the textual data? Backed-up in synch?] > > > > Ok, oh well; I guess Planet-Maher is destined to be a lonely place :-( > > > >> Any customer who wants their VMS systems to act as clients > >> to WEB-services servers, I guess... > > > > And who are they and what are they doing *exactly*? I am not a troglodyte > > here, I do understand the concept and the reality; what I'm trying to do is > > separate the Gartner report (CV-Builder) fiction from what is really > > happening at the VMS coal face. Are you really trying to pull down Google > > Maps to your VAX Cobol programs, or is there a certain manufacturer that > > mandates SOAP interoperability? > > > > It's just that I've worked for years with DECnet then X.25 then FTP then > > TCP/IP Socket middleware, in London financial exchanges all the way to > > Dickie local governments, and I don't really understand this amazing "new" > > problem that your solving. > > > > Here's the crazy thing; I'm actually *asking* you for a *specific* > > requirements-specification! There's certainly no shortage of SOLUTIONIZING > > barrow-boys who will relieve you of your cash, telling you what you *should* > > be doing for their own ends, but I on the other hand wish to understand the > > problem/requirements in more detail. > > > > I've personally seen suppliers like Toyota regularly send 1MB+ SOAP/XML > > messages down the line for reasons only known to themselves (and Gartner I > > suppose?) and yet I've implemented a very effective (although still crap) > > inter-car-dealer Spare Parts sales-system with plain old TCP/IP Sockets. But > > what do the Jan-Erik's and Michaels of this world really want? > > > > My *guess* is that you need this XML/RPC in SOAP-drag thing where you can > > say:- > > > > ?XML Bollocks Transitional 0.5 Look like SOAP? > > > > 123 > > > > > > and recieve a:- > > > > > > 33 > > followed by lots of CRLF bollocks. . . > > > > Am I pretty close to the mark here??? > > > > So how much of the gSOAP source-code footprint, do you really think is > > involved in solving that little requirement eh? 1 maybe 2 percent? > > > > What the fuck do you think the rest of the Trojen-Horse is for??? > > > > Which part of that requirement involved a new HTTP Web Server eh? (On top of > > WASD, Apache, OSU, T3 Applet Uploader) > > > > Where is the gSOAP Tomcat? Where is the thread-pool, the server-pool, the > > min-this the max-that? The server Containers? Are you still there Jan-Erik? > > Hello, Hello, anyone home??? > > > >>> So some would have us believe (...) that gSOAP is for > >> > VMS 3GLs to call remote SOAP routines,... > >> > >> It is. What is the problem with that ? > >> (And from what I understand, WSIT is of limited use there.) > > > > My recollection of the beatitudes is a little shakey but wasn't there a > > "Blessed are the gullible for they will be buggered by VMS's IMM"? > > > > As Inigo Montoya would say "Let me explain. .there is no time; let me > > summarize":- > > > > You have asked for the Artic Blue SportsWagon and this really "nice" guy has > > told you that you actually want the WagonQueen Family Truxter. And you are > > now jumping up and down saying "I really love the metallic-pea!". > > > > Maybe here's a better analogy: - You're sick of illegal Indonesian fisherman > > pilfering our waters off the Northwest coast and you've asked the federal > > govt for help. To which they have responded with a purchase order for a > > Nimitz-Class air-craft carrier. Now your eyes are bulging and you're nursing > > a semi 'cos you get to strafe those abolone-rustlers every morning, but > > strangely enough, the hidden agenda of the poisonous bastards involved in > > the solution-spec doesn't seen to bother you? That is until they launch a > > pre-emtive strike on Jakarta. > > > > Anyway Jan-Erik, if you really want a SOAP client RTL then I can see no > > reason why HP or Freeware doesn't provide one. I don't know C/OpenSSL or I'd > > give you one myself. (Give Mark Daniel a decent fee and I'm sure you'll have > > one in a month) > > > > But maybe I'm wrong, maybe you really want: - WS-Addressing, > > WS-ReliableMessaging, WS-Coordination, WS-AtomicTransaction, WS-Security, > > WS-Security Policy, WS-Trust, WS-SecureConversation, WS-Policy, > > WS-MetadataExchange > > > > It's up to you. . . > > > > Cheers Richard Maher > > > > PS. Go on! ask those fuckers what their WS-AT solution is for VMS! Ask them > > about latent ACMS support for TIP! Ask them about Tier3 support for TIP! > > What would you image the difference between WS-Coordinationa and WS-AT to > > be? > > > > Ah who gives a shit? You clearly don't :-( > > > > "Jan-Erik Söderholm" wrote in message > > news:BiFXi.12998$ZA.8385@newsb.telia.net... > >> Richard Maher wrote: > >> > >>>> Web services (SOAP) is a big deal right now for our customers > >>> Really? Which VMS customers and why? > >> Any customer who wants their VMS systems to act as clients > >> to WEB-services servers, I guess... > >> > >>> So some would have us believe (...) that gSOAP is for > >> > VMS 3GLs to call remote SOAP routines,... > >> > >> It is. What is the problem with that ? > >> (And from what I understand, WSIT is of limited use there.) > >> > >> And not having to use ODS5 and install Java kit is/could > >> be a big plus, depending on your actual environment. > >> > >> Jan-Erik. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:10:06 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Announcing: gSoap for OpenVMS blog Message-ID: Richard Maher wrote: > Hi Jan-Erik, Hi there... :-) > But personally given these requirements, yes, rather than take a gSOAP > sledge-hammer to crack a nut (and in the absence of a supported solution) I > would prefer to code a supportable solution from scratch. I doubt that we're > talking rocket science here and all the SSL, XML-parsing/building and > a.n.other infrastructure routines are all readily available. (Sadly "C" only > so I'd have to get someone in :-) Now, gSOAP doesn't do much att all, realy. It takes the interface description (WSDL) as published and produces header files and funtions stubs and whatever to make writing those C, COBOL, Fortran apps easier. You get your record descriptions and structures ready to use. I would not call gSOAP a sledge-hammer, it's just a couple of rather simple conversion tools! Now, after that, it's just some libs to link against. No Java, no ODS-5, none of the OS version limits of WSIT. Now I'm just lacking a tool that creates Rdb CREATE TABLE statements from the WSDL... :-) Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 19:12:10 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Consolidated List of OpenVMS 30th Anniversary Articles on the Internet Int Message-ID: Keith Cayemberg wrote: > Here's a consolidated list of OpenVMS 30th Anniversary Articles on the > Internet. Many thanks for this. Would have been nice to have seen this earlier. Of course, many will criticise me for commenting on the articles, and I debated whether I shoudl just drop it alltogether or not. But here it goes: > ComputerWorld: OpenVMS Still Has Road Ahead Of It, HP Says > ComputerWorld: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a > future > by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service These 2 articles should be at the bottom of the list. Thibodeau has put a lot of "still" statements in his articles and worded them to show that HP doesn't have much credibility with its promises. (Aka, it is the type of article that I would be expected to write). > Enterprise Open Source Magazine: Happy Birthday, OpenVMS > By: Enterprise Open Source News Desk > http://opensource.sys-con.com/read/451374.htm Perhaps it is my understanding of english, but "having been gussied up with" reminds me of an old grand-mother that is gussied up with lots of clothes , mascara and hair colour to hide how wrinkled up body. > > Fudzilla: OpenVMS has a long future, says HP > by Peter Scott > http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3910&Itemid=1 This is short. No real comment about it. Good exposure. However, the statement "HP has released a statement" leaves me baffled since the official HP press room had nothing about VMS when I last checked. > InternetNews.Com: OpenVMS at 30: Still Going Strong > by Sean Michael Kerner > http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3707631 This one is very good. Should be at the top of the list. One general comment though: it says that the next release of VMS is the end of 2009. That is a bit far in my opinion unless we're talking about V 9.0 with major changes. > Investors Hub Forum: VMS turns 30 today > by Chipguy > http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=24021733 This is just a post by a VMS fan. It points to a text that is hidden on the VMS web site (since there is no mention of VMS on the main HP press release site). > ITJungle: (OpenVMS 30th Anniversary mentioned in an IBM article) > by Timothy Prickett Morgan > http://www.itjungle.com/tfh/tfh102907-story01.html This one is interesting. I foud the mention of mostly customer witten applications interesting. Basically a message that what is left on VMS is the old legacy code instead of new commercial applications. > InformationWeek: VMS Operating System Is 30 Years Old; Customers > Believe It Can Last Forever > by Charles Babcock > "We always said we would move away from VMS when something better came > along. There isn't anything better," he says. > http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202801418 This is a generally good tone. However, ## The operating system "has a very loyal installed base of customers," McQuaid says, and they show no signs of wanting to give it up. ## It would have been better if it ended with "and HP has no intentions of giving it up". Right now, it says that customers want VMS, but doesn't convey HP's attitudes towards VMS. > PC World: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says > by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service > http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/139073/openvms_still_has_a_future_hp_says.html Another Thibodeau article with lots of "still" statements. While I agree with him, it doesn't mean that it sheds a positive light on VMS. > SAP INFO: Reassuring Customers over Operating System > Source: EDITTECH INTERNATIONAL > http://www.sap.info/public/INT/int/index/Category-28813c6138d029be8-int/0/articlesVersions-248004727339ae966d This short article was sourced from some other place, and we see a "still" sentence common to a few articles: >Hewlett-Packard Co. (HP) officials are marking the 30th anniversary of >the OpenVMS operating system's introduction by telling users of the >software that it still doesn't have an expiration date. "STILL DOESN'T HAVE AN EXPIRATION DATE:" statement made by HP officials is not too encouraging. (implies that an expiration date is expected eventually). > UNIX Administratosphere: OpenVMS celebrates its 30th anniversary! > by David Douthitt > http://administratosphere.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/openvms-celebrates-its-30th-anniversary/ This seems more like a blog. It stars off great, but then starts to make errors (Ian Miller has posted corrections about VAX still being supported). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:40:43 -0800 From: Keith Cayemberg Subject: Consolidated List of OpenVMS 30th Anniversary Articles on the Internet Message-ID: <1194468043.854631.289120@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> Here's a consolidated list of OpenVMS 30th Anniversary Articles on the Internet. I would suggest that those of you who find error's in these articles take a cue from Ian Miller and Bob Gezelter... Click on the FEEDBACK or COMMENT button (where available) and share your (preferably substantiated) wisdom with the masses! Aarons OpenVMS Hobby Site: Happy birthday! by Aaron Sakovich http://openvms.hobby-site.com/index.php ComputerWorld: OpenVMS Still Has Road Ahead Of It, HP Says by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=3DviewArticleBasic&a= rticleId=3D306644&intsrc=3Dnews_ts_head ComputerWorld: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a future by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=3D1925884398&rid=3D-219 Enterprise Open Source Magazine: Happy Birthday, OpenVMS By: Enterprise Open Source News Desk http://opensource.sys-con.com/read/451374.htm http://opensource.sys-con.com/read/451374_f.htm Fudzilla: OpenVMS has a long future, says HP by Peter Scott http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=3Dcom_content&task=3Dview&id=3D391= 0&Itemid=3D1 InternetNews.Com: OpenVMS at 30: Still Going Strong by Sean Michael Kerner http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3707631 Investors Hub Forum: VMS turns 30 today by Chipguy http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=3D24021733 ITJungle: (OpenVMS 30th Anniversary mentioned in an IBM article) by Timothy Prickett Morgan http://www.itjungle.com/tfh/tfh102907-story01.html InformationWeek: VMS Operating System Is 30 Years Old; Customers Believe It Can Last Forever by Charles Babcock "We always said we would move away from VMS when something better came along. There isn't anything better," he says. http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=3D202801418 OSnews: OpenVMS 8.3-1H1 Released by Thom Holwerda http://www.osnews.com/story.php/18860/OpenVMS-8.3-1H1-Released/ PC World: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/139073/openvms_still_has_a_fu= ture_hp_says.html SAP INFO: Reassuring Customers over Operating System Source: EDITTECH INTERNATIONAL http://www.sap.info/public/INT/int/index/Category-28813c6138d029be8-int/0/a= rticlesVersions-248004727339ae966d UNIX Administratosphere: OpenVMS celebrates its 30th anniversary! by David Douthitt http://administratosphere.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/openvms-celebrates-its-3= 0th-anniversary/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _Web Sites which have linked to original news articles on the OpenVMS 30th Anniversary_ BATTLESTAR GALLACTICA Club: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says http://www.battlestargalacticaclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3D4378 The Cylon.Org Board: http://www.cylon.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3D11251 CIO India: OpenVMS Still Has Road Ahead of it, HP Says http://www.cio.in/news/viewArticle/ARTICLEID=3D4082 ComputerWorld Australia: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a future by Patrick Thibodeau of the IDG News Service http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1925884398;fp;4194304;fpid;1 Congo: OpenVMS Still Has Road Ahead Of It, HP Says http://www.congoo.com/news/2007November5/OpenVMS-Road-Ahead Hardware Blog: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a future http://hostrom.com/hp-tries-to-assure-openvms-users-that-os-still-has-a-fut= ure/420 iHandheld.mobi: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says http://www.ihandheld.mobi/wp-mobile.php?p=3D49536&more=3D1 ITeXclusive: OpenVMS ima lijepu budu=C4=87nost ispred sebe by Peter Scott (translated for Bosnia and Herzegovina) http://www.itx.ba/index.php?option=3Dcom_content&task=3Dview&id=3D3323&Item= id=3D1 ITnews: VMS operating system is 30 years old; Customers believe it can last forever http://www.itnews.com.au/News/NewsStory.aspx?story=3D64306 Kopic's OpenVMS News http://vmsnews.kopic.net/ MacSurfer's Headline News: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a future: On software's 30th anniversary, vendor says it's committed to the technology http://www.macsurfer.com/?section=3Dindustry&ndate=3D2007-10-29 PC News and Hardware Reviews': HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a future http://togahost.com/computers/hp-tries-to-assure-openvms-users-that-os-stil= l-has-a-future.shtml Public Technology: OpenVMS at 30: Still Going Strong http://www.publictechnology.net/technews/modules.php?op=3Dmodload&name=3DNe= ws&file=3Darticle&sid=3D67480&mode=3Dthread&order=3D0&thold=3D0 OZCrunch: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a future VMS operating system is 30 years old; Customers believe it can last forever http://www.ozcrunch.com/2007/10/30/hp-tries-to-assure-openvms-users-that-os= -still-has-a-future/ TechWeb: VMS Operating System Is 30 Years Old; Customers Believe It Can Last Forever http://www.techweb.com/btgcommunity/thread.jspa?threadID=3D17172&tstart=3D30 TechWorld: HP tries to assure OpenVMS users that OS still has a future http://www.techworld.com/opsys/features/index.cfm?featureID=3D3775&pagtype= =3Dsamecatsamechan websiteGear News: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says http://news.websitegear.com/view/24725 XBOX User's Group: OpenVMS Still Has a Future, HP Says http://www.xboxusersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3D115253 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I also noticed that HP's OpenVMS site in Japan is celebrating... http://www.compaq.co.jp/products/software/oe/openvms/ A bit more nostalgia: What happened in the World during October 1977... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977#October and still more nostalgia: DEC vs IBM Michael Cooney (Network World) http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;107080629;fp;16;fpid;2 Oracle also had it's 30th Anniversary this year... http://searchoracle.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid41_gci126116= 2,00.html *** Don't forget to order your own Commemorative 30th anniversary CD here *** http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/30th/t_gift.html Cheers! Keith Cayemberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 19:07:15 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Informationweek mentions VMS 30 year anniversary Message-ID: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > I wouldn't put too much faith in their accuracy. Which dosn't meen a thing. It's the visability of VMS that counts for those that we *want* to see the article. Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:11:49 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Informationweek mentions VMS 30 year anniversary Message-ID: Syltrem wrote: > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202801794 > Merci for the pointer. Better late than never. Interesting however how the article starts out by going out of its way to paint VMS as an old operating system when Unix is in fact older than VMS. As to the mention of 8.3 in another article, hasn't 8.3 been out for quite some time already ? (I realise there there is to be some mini IA64 release to support some new IA64 contraptions, but will this also result in an Alpha release ? ) As for 8.3 on the vax, perhaps we could use the article to force HP to produce 8.3 for VAX , threathening to sue them or false advertising if they don't :-) :-)( :-) :-) :-) ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 2007 20:18:29 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Informationweek mentions VMS 30 year anniversary Message-ID: <5pekslFr1uboU1@mid.individual.net> In article , JF Mezei writes: > Syltrem wrote: >> http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202801794 >> > > Merci for the pointer. > > Better late than never. Interesting however how the article starts out > by going out of its way to paint VMS as an old operating system when > Unix is in fact older than VMS. Actually, you would have to look at the age of the currently in use version. Or you couls say that because it's actually older Unix has had time to do more research that resulted in greater improvement to the OS. One can spin almost anything in almost any direction. > > As to the mention of 8.3 in another article, hasn't 8.3 been out for > quite some time already ? (I realise there there is to be some mini > IA64 release to support some new IA64 contraptions, but will this also > result in an Alpha release ? ) > > As for 8.3 on the vax, perhaps we could use the article to force HP to > produce 8.3 for VAX , threathening to sue them or false advertising if > they don't :-) :-)( :-) :-) :-) Well, I hadn't mentioned it til now, but it doesn't appear to me that HP had anything to do with these releases. I would suspect that they were spawned by some VMS fanatic and that HP would not confirm or deny anything, thus the reason for the innaccuracies which could have been corrected by a simple phone call by the journalist, unless HP refused to talk to them. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:54:13 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: Informationweek mentions VMS 30 year anniversary Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > > Interesting however how the article starts out > by going out of its way to paint VMS as an old operating system when > Unix is in fact older than VMS. > A few years +- doesn't mean much in hindsight of about 30 years. Moreover, one would like to compare the release of the first commercial releases of VMS and Unix, respectively. I.e. not counting the Multics still birth. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 18:19:32 -0600 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Informationweek mentions VMS 30 year anniversary Message-ID: On 11/07/07 14:54, Michael Kraemer wrote: [snip] > I.e. not counting the Multics still birth. Multics was *not* stillborn. Well into the 1980s, Honeywell released computers using it, and the last site went out of service in CY 2000. http://www.multicians.org/ -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:26:03 -0700 From: Jim Mehlhop Subject: Re: MOUNT /ASSIST Message-ID: <47328FDB.5040400@mehlhop.org> Robert Jarratt wrote: > I had a MOUNT command with an implicit /ASSIST in my SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM. > When I changed the disk around this MOUNT command failed and VMS sent > messages to the console asking that this be fixed. However I was unable to > log in to the machine to fix the issue, presumably because the login limit > had not been opened up. What surprised me though was that I could not log in > to the console either, and there was no way to do a clean shutdown. > Fortunately I was able to put the old disk back and then change the MOUNT to > specify /NOASSIST, so that the startup could complete. > > Now this is a hobbyist system so the consequences are irrelevant, but I am > curious as to how you would get out of this situation in a production > environment without doing what I was obliged to do. Did I miss something > (other than not specifying /NOASSIST?) > > Thanks > > Rob > > Not sure why everyone makes this so difficult. In a production environment you would do a conversational boot then at sysboot> set startup_p1 "min" sysboot> cont Then log in at the console and modify systartup_vms.com then run sysgen reset startup_p1 "" and reboot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:26:26 -0800 From: AEF Subject: Re: Why does DECnet Phase IV have more capabilities on VAX than on Message-ID: <1194470786.514524.101480@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Nov 7, 1:48 pm, Rob Brown wrote: > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Bob Koehler wrote: > > In article <2ab7d$4730cc89$cef8887a$3...@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > > >> (For those who don't know, DDMCP is decnet over a serial line). > > > DDCMP is a line level protocol over synchronous serial lines. > > Apparently not limited synchronous serial lines. > $ SET TERMINAL/PROTOCOL=DDCMP/SWITCH=DECNET > is still in HELP in VMS 7.1. > > -- > > Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m > G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) > Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) > http://gmcl.com/ Yes, it can be either. >From the DECnet for OpenVMS manual: On systems that support it, DDCMP provides a low-level communications path between systems. The DDCMP protocol performs the basic communications function of moving information blocks over an unreliable communication channel. ... The DDCMP protocol is supported on some synchronous and asynchronous communications devices. So it can be configured for either. AEF ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.611 ************************