INFO-VAX Fri, 14 Dec 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 683 Contents: Re: 20+ year old encrypted source code Re: Amazing RUNOFF defect? DEC (COMPAQ) Big Band (was:Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) ES40 Emulator .deb package FREE - Sanswitch 16 Qty Re: FREE - Sanswitch 16 Qty Re: FREE - Sanswitch 16 Qty Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Re: Removing blank lines in a file... Re: Shifted Function Keys On OpenVMS XWindows Don't Work Re: Shifted Function Keys On OpenVMS XWindows Don't Work Re: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception Re: TECOing blank lines out of a file This Company is giving away free seo. Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Re: [OT] DEC big band [was HP to close Nashua (ZKO)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:37:04 -0500 From: Glenn Everhart Subject: Re: 20+ year old encrypted source code Message-ID: <13m39qfanpgl8d7@corp.supernews.com> Tad Winters wrote: > FrankS wrote in news:6024224e-dcdd-4dd1-a058- > b295c054c526@l16g2000hsf.googlegroups.com: > >> Any thoughts on how source code that was produced circa 1985 may have >> been encrypted "back in the day"? >> >> The source code files are available, and a $DIR/FULL shows fixed, 512- >> byte records. The contents are pure gibberish. I have no way of >> knowing how they were encrypted. >> >> The good news (if you can look at it that way) is that the system disk >> has likely been upgraded in-place all these years. Therefore, if >> there was something installed to do the encryption it's probably still >> there. >> >> I just don't know what command or utility to look for. > > Did you ever find an answer? > It occurs to me that there was a squeeze program used back in those days, > though I don't remember if it was available on VMS. > You might try writing a little program of you own that analyzes these files > looking for 2 or more adjacent printable characters, just in case it yields > some kind of signature. I would suggest that it probably is good old single DES if the encryption was done well by 1987 standards. Martin Minow had DES code working long before that. If you know any of the original plaintext or know it was all normal source code you could find the key with rather a lot of work and a lot of resources (the recent hack using display processors being the thing that makes this probably doable with a small number of PCs; Elcomsoft is the relevant company). However forget about doing decryption of any such thing on the back of an envelope. Note however that it is probably worth trying to see if the file was only compressed (and at that time it would have used compress, not gzip). That also produces apparent gibberish but would decompose back rather easily. There were a few DES encrypt/decrypt utilities circulating at that time. While triple-DES was known back then, too, it was not widely used (mainly due to machine speed). It is possible too that someone might have used either the Bear Software cryptodisk or the one I put out, probably the former since mine might have been a little later. For that you'd want to find Larry Robertson and see if he recalls anything about the algorithm. I believe he still has the "bearsoft.com" domain. The sq and usq programs were indeed available on VMS, long before then, and could conceivably have been used also. Glenn Everhart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:44:32 +0100 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Amazing RUNOFF defect? Message-ID: In article <07121214321866_202647DE@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > From: "P. Sture" > > > In article <07120600562608_202002AB@antinode.org>, > > sms@antinode-org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > > > > > Directory ALP$DKA0:[SMS.RUNOFF] > > > > > > LC.MEM;1 142 <--- Hmmm. > > > UC.MEM;1 138 <--- > > > VMS_ZIP.RNH;1 131 > > > > Duplicated on another .RNH file here. The resulting .MEM has page > > numbers and form feeds, hence the larger size. > > > > The setting of SET PROCESS/PARSE doesn't make any difference here. > > > > This on Alpha V8.3. > > It's a trend. I submitted a "product business feedback" complaint to > HP (http://h71000.www7.hp.com/fb_business.html), and got a > thanks-but-it's-old-code response. Conspicuously missing was any > suggestion that the problem would ever be fixed. (But, optimists may be > encouraged, in that there was also no promise never to fix it.) A few memories stirred since I made my post... Thinking back to about 1985, when I first discovered how to use RUNOFF for help files, I was surprised that it relied on the file type instead of having a qualifier (c/f LIBRARY/HELP). Dumping RUNOFF.EXE reveals arrays containing RUNOFF recognized filetypes, in uppercase of course, so would not be surprised to find that a proper solution also had to address the other file types. IOW substantially more work than fixing only the .rnh issue. > In any case, future Info-ZIP source kits should contain only ".RNH", > not ".rnh", files. Be sure to complain if you see a policy violation > after now. > Noted, but I'll add that in the light of my previous paragraph, beware of other file types too. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:21:21 -0500 From: bradhamilton Subject: DEC (COMPAQ) Big Band (was:Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: <4761BE71.8060704@comcast.net> Rich Jordan wrote: [...] > They had a logo running diagonally across in the digital box style, > but what was visible was 'd|e|c|b|i...'; I couldn't see the rest. > > Did DEC actually have a band? Or was it a set of props they'd use > with a hired band for certain functions? > The DEC "Big Band" was a going concern as of ~2001; a former colleague of mine (DECcie, then worked for Fidelity) was director. I may have even seen ads more recently than 2001, but I can't be more specific. Of course, Google is your friend :-): ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2007 01:14:43 GMT From: "gl@decadence.it" Subject: ES40 Emulator .deb package Message-ID: <4761d903$0$4784$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it> Come promesso... deb http://www.decadence.it/debian etch main ciao! gl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:02:22 -0500 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: FREE - Sanswitch 16 Qty Message-ID: <13m33uertje7ve8@news.supernews.com> -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 T: 877-6364332 x201 Intl: 001 912 447 6622 E: dturner@islandco.com F: 912 201 0402 W: http://www.islandco.com The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:48:27 -0500 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: FREE - Sanswitch 16 Qty Message-ID: <13m36kv9vsk0ic1@news.supernews.com> Hit send too early These are used SANswitches from FEMA. They work, but may need updated firmware, may come with either one or two power supplies and will be in decent cosmetic condition YOU PAY FREIGHT - USA About $40 - everywhere else you need to email us for a quote. Send an email with "I want a free SANswitch 16" in the subject line. You must include your name address and telephone number on the email as well as a working email address Thanks and Merry Christmas to you all ! -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 T: 877-6364332 x201 Intl: 001 912 447 6622 E: dturner@islandco.com F: 912 201 0402 W: http://www.islandco.com The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote in message news:13m33uertje7ve8@news.supernews.com... > > > -- > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404 > > T: 877-6364332 x201 > Intl: 001 912 447 6622 > E: dturner@islandco.com > F: 912 201 0402 > W: http://www.islandco.com > > > > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to > which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or > privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other > use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If > you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from all computers. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:25:51 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: FREE - Sanswitch 16 Qty Message-ID: David Turner, Island Computers wrote: > Hit send too early > > These are used SANswitches from FEMA. > They work, but may need updated firmware, may come with either one or two > power supplies and will be in decent cosmetic condition > YOU PAY FREIGHT - USA About $40 - everywhere else you need to email us for a > quote. > > Send an email with "I want a free SANswitch 16" in the subject line. > You must include your name address and telephone number on the email as well > as a working email address > > Thanks and Merry Christmas to you all ! > > > He he, First I read "Free sandwiches"... :-) :-) Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2007 18:58:59 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <5sddnjF17nqqnU1@mid.individual.net> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <5scos3F181864U2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> >>In article , >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>> In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>Rich Jordan wrote: >>>>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and >>>>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most >>>>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and >>>>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... it >>>>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. >>>> >>>>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and >>>>corrupt"! >>> >>> I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) >>> >> >>Well, PA is in the running too. All the way down to the >>local level. I know, I live in a county that thinks borrowing >>$90,000,000 is balancing the budget. And when a local resident >>stalled that plan by filing a complaint in court they have taken >>to meeting to decide what to do, all behind closed doors. >> >>And we won't even get into the fact that the entire state from top >>to bottom is run by carpetbaggers. > > I know one who isn't. Who? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2007 19:02:01 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <5sddt9F17nqqnU2@mid.individual.net> In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>> >>> >>>Rich Jordan wrote: >>>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: >>>> >>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... >>>> >>>> >>>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and >>>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most >>>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and >>>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... it >>>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. >>> >>>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and >>>corrupt"! >> >> I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) > > Rhode Island. > > With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost > twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions. > Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got > back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's > welcome. Oh hell, I can beat that. We have a local municipality here where the mayor and head of the city council got arrested and convicted of fixing traffic tickets (a felony underr State law). Well, someone had to fill their terms until the next election, so, they appointed their wives. At the next election, both of them wre re-elected. And none of the residents see anything wrong with this!! PA, a great place to be from. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:48:02 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: In article <574b62a9-e70b-4274-bbea-aabb758c5d04@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Rich Jordan writes: > > >On Dec 13, 8:46 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article <5417d233-1b49-46b1-9562-25ed1eb21...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Bob Gezelter writes: >> >> >{...snip...} >> >first landmark was to see the Medieval outline of the (now) Radisson, >> >but I will get used to it. There will be some sadness at the end of >> >this spring's bootcamp to say goodbye to the facility that has been a >> >part of our lives for so long, but I look forward to visiting OpenVMS >> >Engineering in Marlborough at their new offices. >> >> Which is why I will always cherish this photo: >> >> http://www.tmesis.com/pix/VAXman_at_the_gates_of_heaven.jpg >> >> I will be at the bootcamp this spring even if I have to drive up there >> and sleep in the van for the week -- just don't get too close to me by >> week's end though. >> >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >> >> http://tmesis.com/drat.html > >I was there in 1998 for a training class the same week the shareholder >vote sold out Digital. Somewhere I have a snapshot of that same sign >with flowers laid all around it. I was there that week too. How did we not meet? I don't recall the flowers around the sign but that could be. There was a rumor that it was going to magically change to COMPAQ overnight but it never came to be. However, anything that had a d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo and wasn't nailed down seemed to be up for grabs. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:59:00 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <8ag8j.2$%I4.1@newsfe09.lga> In article <5sddnjF17nqqnU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >In article , > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> In article <5scos3F181864U2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> >>> >>>In article , >>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>>> In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Rich Jordan wrote: >>>>>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and >>>>>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most >>>>>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and >>>>>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... it >>>>>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. >>>>> >>>>>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and >>>>>corrupt"! >>>> >>>> I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) >>>> >>> >>>Well, PA is in the running too. All the way down to the >>>local level. I know, I live in a county that thinks borrowing >>>$90,000,000 is balancing the budget. And when a local resident >>>stalled that plan by filing a complaint in court they have taken >>>to meeting to decide what to do, all behind closed doors. >>> >>>And we won't even get into the fact that the entire state from top >>>to bottom is run by carpetbaggers. >> >> I know one who isn't. > >Who? PA House of Representatives. Rep. Daylin Leach. Daylin (Dave) and I went to high school together. I spoke with him about 10 years ago. He was practicing law (I wonder if he ever perfected it?) at the time and also teaching 1st Amendment law at Muhlenberg College. I was shocked when I came across a link to him that said he was now in the PA HoR. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:33:38 GMT From: Bob Harris Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: In article <4760ED9D.27454.432F14D@infovax.stanq.com>, "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > On 13 Dec 2007 at 4:50, Bob Gezelter wrote: > > There will be some sadness at the end of this spring's bootcamp to say > > goodbye to the facility that has been a part of our lives for so long > > Perhaps Sue could arrange a tour like she did for the Mill last year. That > was my first > trip there, and I've never been to ZK-land (close, but never visited). > > --Stan Quayle > Quayle Consulting Inc. > > ---------- > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA > stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html > "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" Not much to see in ZKO these days. All of the HP offices are compressed onto 2 floors of ZKO3 (it has 3 floors of offices, and a half floor with conf rooms and fitness center (now contracted to "Goal Fitness")). I don't think anything is in ZKO1 except the caf and security offices. I could be wrong there, as it has been 2 years since I've been in the building (3 years since I was laid-off, but my wife was there an additional year, so I often went over for lunch). ZKO2 has the former Digital Compiler group now the intel Compiler group. ZKO2 also has Equallogic (currently in the process of being aquired by Dell), and a I think a 3rd company, but I'm unsure about that. I guess you can look at "Non-Paged Pool" out of the Caf windows. Someone wondered if it would be drained, but since it is part of the rain run off control, I don't think it will change, except that maybe the Non-Paged Pool sign might get removed. Bob Harris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:48:23 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: Rich Jordan writes: >On Dec 13, 8:46 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> >> Which is why I will always cherish this photo: >> >> http://www.tmesis.com/pix/VAXman_at_the_gates_of_heaven.jpg >> >> I will be at the bootcamp this spring even if I have to drive up there >> and sleep in the van for the week -- just don't get too close to me by >> week's end though. >> >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >> >> http://tmesis.com/drat.html >I was there in 1998 for a training class the same week the shareholder >vote sold out Digital. Somewhere I have a snapshot of that same sign >with flowers laid all around it. One day after Compaq bought Digital, a rumor went around that Compaq was going to replace the Digital signage "tomorrow". So the whole VMS group went out to the sign for multiple photographs. I still have mine. Of course the sign wasn't replaced for quite some time. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:55:47 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: On Dec 13, 1:48 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <574b62a9-e70b-4274-bbea-aabb758c5...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Rich Jordan writes: > > > > > > >On Dec 13, 8:46 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> In article <5417d233-1b49-46b1-9562-25ed1eb21...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Bob Gezelter writes: > > >> >{...snip...} > >> >first landmark was to see the Medieval outline of the (now) Radisson, > >> >but I will get used to it. There will be some sadness at the end of > >> >this spring's bootcamp to say goodbye to the facility that has been a > >> >part of our lives for so long, but I look forward to visiting OpenVMS > >> >Engineering in Marlborough at their new offices. > > >> Which is why I will always cherish this photo: > > >> http://www.tmesis.com/pix/VAXman_at_the_gates_of_heaven.jpg > > >> I will be at the bootcamp this spring even if I have to drive up there > >> and sleep in the van for the week -- just don't get too close to me by > >> week's end though. > > >> -- > >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > >>http://tmesis.com/drat.html > > >I was there in 1998 for a training class the same week the shareholder > >vote sold out Digital. Somewhere I have a snapshot of that same sign > >with flowers laid all around it. > > I was there that week too. How did we not meet? > > I don't recall the flowers around the sign but that could be. There was > a rumor that it was going to magically change to COMPAQ overnight but it > never came to be. However, anything that had a d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo and > wasn't nailed down seemed to be up for grabs. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html I might have stepped on your foot; the only flight back I could get left afternoon Friday so I had to leave about an hour into the afternoon session. Thats when I stopped and took the picture of the Digital sign with the flowers around it. I have the two signs from our business, when it moved from a standalone building to internal offices (post Compaq so the DEC signs were not used). One is a very nice gold and ivory colored one, the other one is just the logo, white on dark acrylic. Also got the owner's 5-years as a Digital Computer Distributor 1979-1984 engraved pewter bowl that he left behind when he retired. Unfortunately it has his name engraved on it too instead of the business name. That and a fistful of the VAX/VMS at 20 year bumper stickers that the fellow presenting told us to take. I picked up a few other knick-knacks on ebay over the years too when they were cheap. Nothing major; just a couple of mugs, keyrings, a belt buckle and a drum. DEC sure did put out a variety of promotionals. And now to go completely off topic... back in '98-99 I was watching CSpan. I saw a few minutes of a preceding show, which was covering a meeting in a banquet hall. In the background were a set of bandstands, the vertical poster-like things that 'big band' type orchestras had players sitting behind (one per player); maybe they were fronts of lecterns to hold music; I don't know. They had a logo running diagonally across in the digital box style, but what was visible was 'd|e|c|b|i...'; I couldn't see the rest. Did DEC actually have a band? Or was it a set of props they'd use with a hired band for certain functions? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:00:34 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: There are many occasions where companies must part with their "landmark" locations. But usually, this happens because the company is growing and has outgrown that landmark location's capacity and must move to newer/larger premises. Sometimes, like for Digital, they keep their original location (the Mill) and open new ones, so no real loss is seen and employees see a company that is expanding due to success. VMS is moving because it has contracted enough to fit inside spare space of another facility. Also, wouldn't much of the labs have been moved to India ? After all, they are the ones who need old vaxes/alphas to validate software on a specific version of VMS. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:23:08 -0500 From: Glenn Everhart Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <4761A2BC.7070105@gce.com> Ah well. It will be sad. They can move VMS Engineering, I guess, but will have to leave Nonpaged Pool behind. (Ponds are hard to relocate.) It'll make quite a commuting hike for those who live in Nashua, Hollis, and Amherst... Glenn Everhart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:32:22 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <4761B2F6.9030400@comcast.net> VAXman- wrote: > In article <5sddnjF17nqqnU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >> >>In article , >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> >>>In article <5scos3F181864U2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> >>>> >>>>In article , >>>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>>> >>>>>In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Rich Jordan wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and >>>>>>>taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most >>>>>>>incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and >>>>>>>work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... it >>>>>>>feels like more of a loss because of those trips. >>>>>> >>>>>>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and >>>>>>corrupt"! >>>>> >>>>>I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) >>>>> >>>> >>>>Well, PA is in the running too. All the way down to the >>>>local level. I know, I live in a county that thinks borrowing >>>>$90,000,000 is balancing the budget. And when a local resident >>>>stalled that plan by filing a complaint in court they have taken >>>>to meeting to decide what to do, all behind closed doors. >>>> >>>>And we won't even get into the fact that the entire state from top >>>>to bottom is run by carpetbaggers. >>> >>>I know one who isn't. >> >>Who? > > > PA House of Representatives. Rep. Daylin Leach. > > Daylin (Dave) and I went to high school together. I spoke with him about > 10 years ago. He was practicing law (I wonder if he ever perfected it?) > at the time and also teaching 1st Amendment law at Muhlenberg College. I > was shocked when I came across a link to him that said he was now in the > PA HoR. > HoR. I like that. A good term for a politician. ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:32:18 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <6ij8j.7$8h1.0@newsfe12.lga> In article <4761B2F6.9030400@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > >VAXman- wrote: >> In article <5sddnjF17nqqnU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >>> >>>In article , >>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>> >>>>In article <5scos3F181864U2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>In article , >>>>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>>>> >>>>>>In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Rich Jordan wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and >>>>>>>>taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most >>>>>>>>incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and >>>>>>>>work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... it >>>>>>>>feels like more of a loss because of those trips. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and >>>>>>>corrupt"! >>>>>> >>>>>>I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Well, PA is in the running too. All the way down to the >>>>>local level. I know, I live in a county that thinks borrowing >>>>>$90,000,000 is balancing the budget. And when a local resident >>>>>stalled that plan by filing a complaint in court they have taken >>>>>to meeting to decide what to do, all behind closed doors. >>>>> >>>>>And we won't even get into the fact that the entire state from top >>>>>to bottom is run by carpetbaggers. >>>> >>>>I know one who isn't. >>> >>>Who? >> >> >> PA House of Representatives. Rep. Daylin Leach. >> >> Daylin (Dave) and I went to high school together. I spoke with him about >> 10 years ago. He was practicing law (I wonder if he ever perfected it?) >> at the time and also teaching 1st Amendment law at Muhlenberg College. I >> was shocked when I came across a link to him that said he was now in the >> PA HoR. >> > >HoR. I like that. A good term for a politician. ;-) :D -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2007 19:06:46 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: <5sde66F17nqqnU3@mid.individual.net> In article , norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > This is a multipart message in MIME format. > --=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_= > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 > 08:52:23 AM: > >> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG > writes: >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" >> writes: >> >> >> >> >> >>Rich Jordan wrote: >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: >> >>> >> >>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and >> >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... > it >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. >> >> >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and >> >>corrupt"! >> > >> > I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) >> >> Rhode Island. >> >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions. >> Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's >> welcome. > > It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that the > older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most > likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage > systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite. > > [Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in > colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has > left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has > successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its elimination. > Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own - > who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political sinecure.] > > Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are > Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and > towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax. Since when? We have local taxes everywhere in PA. I pay them here and the town is only 4 blocks on a side, square. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2007 19:10:27 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: <5sded2F17nqqnU4@mid.individual.net> In article , norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > This is a multipart message in MIME format. > --=_alternative 00608760852573B0_= > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 > 12:23:36 PM: > >> norm.raphael@metso.com writes: >> >> >This is a multipart message in MIME format. >> >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_= >> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 >> >08:52:23 AM: >> >> >> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG >> >writes: >> >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" >> >> writes: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Rich Jordan wrote: >> >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and >> >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most >> >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live > and >> >> >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of > times... >> >it >> >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. >> >> >> >> >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent > and >> >> >>corrupt"! >> >> > >> >> > I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) >> >> >> >> Rhode Island. >> >> >> >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have > almost >> >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage > positions. >> >> Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got >> >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's >> >> welcome. >> >> >It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that > the >> >older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most >> >likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage >> >systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite. >> >> I think it has more to do with where powerful political machines existed >> in the late 1800s, which probably depended on where the big cities of > the >> time were. >> >> I don't sense NH, one of the original 13 colonies, as corrupt nor states >> like NC SC GA or DE as any worse than average. Also among the 13. >> > > Yes, the ones with seaports, commerce, cities are indeed the ones. > >> >[Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in >> >colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has > >> >left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has >> >successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its > elimination. >> >Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own > - >> >who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political > sinecure.] >> >> Yes, that Governor's Council is a joke. >> >> >Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are >> >Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and >> >towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax. >> >> "Commonwealth" for those four states is just a name, it has nothing to >> do with the type of government or anything. It's not like the > Commonwealth >> of Puerto Rico, which is a unique creature, and not a state. > > I am not a poli-sci major, but a Commonwealth state is in fact a > different "type of government." Notice that those in Ky who want to avail > > themselves of a gambling casino must cross the river to Ohio. There are > not > yet any in Mass. either, whereas in N.J. the world is different. This is > not a coincidence. Sorry to throw a monkey wrench into your premise, but PA has got em. One owned by Connecticut Indians and one owned by, well, let's not go into that. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:02:14 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0005B353852573B1_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote on 12/13/2007 02:06:46 PM: > In article 00588A30@metso.com>, > norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > > This is a multipart message in MIME format. > > --=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_= > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 > > 08:52:23 AM: > > > >> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG > > writes: > >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" > >> writes: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>Rich Jordan wrote: > >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: > >> >>> > >> > >>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and > >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most > >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and > >> >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... > > it > >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. > >> >> > >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and > >> >>corrupt"! > >> > > >> > I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) > >> > >> Rhode Island. > >> > >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost > >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions. > >> Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got > >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's > >> welcome. > > > > It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that the > > older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most > > likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage > > systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite. > > > > [Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in > > colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has > > left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has > > successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its elimination. > > Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own - > > who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political sinecure.] > > > > Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are > > Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and > > towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax. > > Since when? We have local taxes everywhere in PA. I pay them here and > the town is only 4 blocks on a side, square. Easy there. I did not say there were no local taxes, only that the state had to grant the locality permission to tax...and I could be wrong; the point is Commonwealths have their own political differences from States. That's all I was trying to say. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include --=_alternative 0005B353852573B1_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote on 12/13/2007 02:06:46 PM:

> In article <OF839911B7.837B78AC-ON852573B0.0057625A-852573B0.
> 00588A30@metso.com>,
>    norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
> > This is a multipart message in MIME format.
> > --=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_=
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
> > 08:52:23 AM:
> >
> >> In article <up%7j.4$Xg.0@newsfe12.lga>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG
> > writes:
> >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert"
> >> <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>Rich Jordan wrote:
> >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" <bill03...@comcast.ner> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >>
> >>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thats just too bad.  Given a choice between New Hampshire and
> >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most
> >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and
> >> >>> work...  That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times...
> > it
> >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips.
> >> >>
> >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and
> >> >>corrupt"!
> >> >
> >> > I wasn't going to bring it up.  ;)
> >>
> >> Rhode Island.
> >>
> >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost
> >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions.
> >> Maybe the people don't mind.  The former mayor of Providence just got
> >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's
> >> welcome.
> >
> > It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that the
> > older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most
> > likely to be (seen as) corrupt.  They have institutionalized patronage
> > systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite.
> >
> > [Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in
> > colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has
> > left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has
> > successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its elimination.
> > Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own -
> > who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political sinecure.]
> >
> > Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are
> > Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and
> > towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax.
>
> Since when?  We have local taxes everywhere in PA.  I pay them here and
> the town is only 4 blocks on a side, square.

Easy there.  I did not say there were no local taxes, only that the state
had to grant the locality permission to tax...and I could be wrong; the
point is Commonwealths have their own political differences from States.
That's all I was trying to say.

>
> bill
>
> --
> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
> bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton   |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  
--=_alternative 0005B353852573B1_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:06:24 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00061584852573B1_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote on 12/13/2007 02:10:27 PM: > In article 0060876E@metso.com>, > norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > > This is a multipart message in MIME format. > > --=_alternative 00608760852573B0_= > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 > > 12:23:36 PM: > > > >> norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > >> > >> >This is a multipart message in MIME format. > >> >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_= > >> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >> > >> >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 > >> >08:52:23 AM: > >> > >> >> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG > >> >writes: > >> >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" > >> >> writes: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >>Rich Jordan wrote: > >> >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: > >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> > >>>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and > >> >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most > >> >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live > > and > >> >> >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of > > times... > >> >it > >> >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. > >> >> >> > >> >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent > > and > >> >> >>corrupt"! > >> >> > > >> >> > I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) > >> >> > >> >> Rhode Island. > >> >> > >> >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have > > almost > >> >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage > > positions. > >> >> Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got > >> >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's > >> >> welcome. > >> > >> >It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that > > the > >> >older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most > >> >likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage > >> >systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite. > >> > >> I think it has more to do with where powerful political machines existed > >> in the late 1800s, which probably depended on where the big cities of > > the > >> time were. > >> > >> I don't sense NH, one of the original 13 colonies, as corrupt nor states > >> like NC SC GA or DE as any worse than average. Also among the 13. > >> > > > > Yes, the ones with seaports, commerce, cities are indeed the ones. > > > >> >[Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in > >> >colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has > > > >> >left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has > >> >successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its > > elimination. > >> >Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own > > - > >> >who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political > > sinecure.] > >> > >> Yes, that Governor's Council is a joke. > >> > >> >Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are > >> >Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and > >> >towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax. > >> > >> "Commonwealth" for those four states is just a name, it has nothing to > >> do with the type of government or anything. It's not like the > > Commonwealth > >> of Puerto Rico, which is a unique creature, and not a state. > > > > I am not a poli-sci major, but a Commonwealth state is in fact a > > different "type of government." Notice that those in Ky who want to avail > > > > themselves of a gambling casino must cross the river to Ohio. There are > > not > > yet any in Mass. either, whereas in N.J. the world is different. This is > > not a coincidence. > > Sorry to throw a monkey wrench into your premise, but PA has got em. One > owned by Connecticut Indians and one owned by, well, let's not go into > that. > Again, I was only making the point that it is harder to get casino gambling passed in a Commonwealth, not impossible. (Mass. has the added problem that the Catholic Church Bingo and the State Lottery sort of have the franchise on legal gambling.) Mass. now has a recognized tribe and a governor who is not beholden, but wants to spend any revenue he can, so casinos are on the table. I only said that Commonwealths were different, but not that different. > bill > > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include --=_alternative 00061584852573B1_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote on 12/13/2007 02:10:27 PM:

> In article <OF4BCE2FFB.2894E204-ON852573B0.005FFF9C-852573B0.
> 0060876E@metso.com>,
>    norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
> > This is a multipart message in MIME format.
> > --=_alternative 00608760852573B0_=
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
> > 12:23:36 PM:
> >
> >> norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
> >>
> >> >This is a multipart message in MIME format.
> >> >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_=
> >> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >>
> >> >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
> >> >08:52:23 AM:
> >>
> >> >> In article <up%7j.4$Xg.0@newsfe12.lga>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG
> >> >writes:
> >> >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert"
> >> >> <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Rich Jordan wrote:
> >> >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" <bill03...@comcast.ner> wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE...
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Thats just too bad.  Given a choice between New Hampshire and
> >> >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most
> >> >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live
> > and
> >> >> >>> work...  That and I got to visit that facility a couple of
> > times...
> >> >it
> >> >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent
> > and
> >> >> >>corrupt"!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I wasn't going to bring it up.  ;)
> >> >>
> >> >> Rhode Island.
> >> >>
> >> >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have
> > almost
> >> >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage
> > positions.
> >> >> Maybe the people don't mind.  The former mayor of Providence just got
> >> >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's
> >> >> welcome.
> >>
> >> >It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that
> > the
> >> >older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most
> >> >likely to be (seen as) corrupt.  They have institutionalized patronage
> >> >systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite.
> >>
> >> I think it has more to do with where powerful political machines existed
> >> in the late 1800s, which probably depended on where the big cities of
> > the
> >> time were.
> >>
> >> I don't sense NH, one of the original 13 colonies, as corrupt nor states
> >> like NC SC GA or DE as any worse than average.  Also among the 13.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, the ones with seaports, commerce, cities are indeed the ones.
> >
> >> >[Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in
> >> >colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has
> >
> >> >left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has
> >> >successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its
> > elimination.
> >> >Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own
> > -
> >> >who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political
> > sinecure.]
> >>
> >> Yes, that Governor's Council is a joke.
> >>
> >> >Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are
> >> >Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and
> >> >towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax.
> >>
> >> "Commonwealth" for those four states is just a name, it has nothing to
> >> do with the type of government or anything.  It's not like the
> > Commonwealth
> >> of Puerto Rico, which is a unique creature, and not a state.
> >
> > I am not a poli-sci major, but a Commonwealth state is in fact a
> > different "type of government."  Notice that those in Ky who want to avail
> >
> > themselves of a gambling casino must cross the river to Ohio.  There are
> > not
> > yet any in Mass. either, whereas in N.J. the world is different.  This is
> > not a coincidence.
>
> Sorry to throw a monkey wrench into your premise, but PA has got em.  One
> owned by Connecticut Indians and one owned by, well, let's not go into
> that.
>

Again, I was only making the point that it is harder to get casino gambling
passed in a Commonwealth, not impossible. (Mass. has the added problem that
the Catholic Church Bingo and the State Lottery sort of have the franchise
on legal gambling.)  Mass. now has a recognized tribe and a governor who is
not beholden, but wants to spend any revenue he can, so casinos are on the
table.  I only said that Commonwealths were different, but not that different.

> bill
>
>
> --
> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
> bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton   |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  
--=_alternative 00061584852573B1_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:58:20 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: norm.raphael@metso.com writes: >This is a multipart message in MIME format. >--=_alternative 00608760852573B0_= >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 >12:23:36 PM: >> norm.raphael@metso.com writes: >> >> >This is a multipart message in MIME format. >> >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_= >> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> >Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are >> >Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and >> >towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax. >> >> "Commonwealth" for those four states is just a name, it has nothing to >> do with the type of government or anything. It's not like the >Commonwealth >> of Puerto Rico, which is a unique creature, and not a state. >I am not a poli-sci major, but a Commonwealth state is in fact a >different "type of government." Notice that those in Ky who want to avail >themselves of a gambling casino must cross the river to Ohio. There are >not >yet any in Mass. either, whereas in N.J. the world is different. This is >not a coincidence. A while ago I asked my sister, who was working as the chief aid for a Massachusetts state senator at the time, and has a master's in political science, about the very question why Mass. is a commonwealth. She told me it was meaningless. I pressed her on it and she told me all it was was what the states decided to call themselves in seventeen-mumblemumble, nothing more. Casinos have nothing to do with it. Mass. is close to getting Indian casinos, if it doesn't happen it'll be because of local opposition, not because Mass. calls itself a commonwealth. Mass. was one of the earlier states to have a state lottery BTW. I'd think where casinos are least likely to happen is the South with opposition from Southern Baptists who consider it "sinful", but even there the Feds have quite a bit of say when Indian tribes are involved. The different states pretty much all run themselves differently. But there are 50 different methods, not 2 (commonwealth/state). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:35:04 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Removing blank lines in a file... Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:21:53 -0800, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > on 12-12-2007 22:38 Larry Kilgallen wrote... > >> Your opinion is not correct. The difference between FN and FS is >> that FN provides an automatic Yank whenever required. > > Ok, foot in mouth, I stand corrected. Hmm, that doesn't sound right > either... > > Well, unless you have good balance. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:21:48 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Shifted Function Keys On OpenVMS XWindows Don't Work Message-ID: <4761B07C.8090503@comcast.net> The_Nth_Traveler wrote: > Summary: > I would like to know how to get function keys F11-F20 to map to Shift- > F1 to Shift-F10 on a Windows based Xserver connecting to Xwindows on > OpenVMS > > > Folks, > > I have been trying to use an OpenVMS Alpha system over Xwindows on a > Windows PC instead of a VT terminal emulator. > > Through the use of an Windows based XWindows server, I have been able > to establish an XWindows logon just as if I were at the system > console. > > However, one of my applications requires the use of the keys F7-F20. > On the system console, I of course have dedicated physical keys for > these function keys (it is a LK411 keyboard). However, on a PC I only > have F1-F12. > > I would like to make the PC function keys F1-F10 work as OpenVMS > function keys F11-F20 when shifted, i.e. Shift-F2=F12. > > I wrote a simple DCL script to define the programmable keys to output > the name of the key pressed, i.e.: > > $ ! KEY_TEST.COM > $ set terminal /application_keypad > $ set terminal /noline_editing > $ define /key PF1 "PF1 " > $ define /key PF2 "PF2 " > . > . > . > $ define /key F19 "F19 " > $ define /key F20 "F20 " > > On a VT terminal emulator, I was able to get all the keys to work, > including keys F11-F20 (except on this emulator, F11-F20 is defined as > CTRL+F1, etc.). When I press "F13" (i.e. CTRL-F3), I get "F13 " shown > on the screen (after running the KEY_TEST.COM script). > > Both the VT terminal emulator and Xwindows server have a means to > redefine the output of the keyboard. I have done so on both the VT > and Xwindows. On the XWindows server, I have defined F11 to be Shift- > F1, F12 to be Shift -F2, etc. > > When logging onto the OpenVMS system via the Windows based Xwindows > server, the OpenVMS system shows the Xwindow F7 key (keycode=72) to be > defined as "keycode 72 = F7 F17" (as shown by the DECW > $UTILS:XMODMAP.EXE tool with options -pke, i.e. xmodmap -pke). > > And when using DECW$UTILS:XEV.EXE, and I press and release F7, I get > > KeyPress event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161257078, (35,51), root:(210,957) > state 0x0, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffc4), F7), same_screen YES, > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161257203, (35,51), root:(210,957) > state 0x0, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffc4), F7), same_screen YES, > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > Now when I press the key combination Shift+F7, I get > > KeyPress event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161659734, (35,51), root:(210,957) > state 0x0, keycode 61 (keysym 0xffe2), Shift_R), same_screen YES, > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > KeyPress event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161660250, (35,51), root:(210,957) > state 0x1, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffce), F17), same_screen YES, > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161660328, (35,51), root:(210,957) > state 0x1, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffce), F17), same_screen YES, > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161660500, (35,51), root:(210,957) > state 0x1, keycode 61 (keysym 0xffe2), Shift_R), same_screen YES, > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > which is what I believe I would expect. > > However, if I do this at a VMS prompt (i.e. $), I simply get a beep, > and nothing else is shown on the screen. > > Now , if I issue the command at the OpenVMS prompt: > > $ xmodmap -e "keycode 72 = F17 F7" > > And then press the F7 key, F17 shows up! When I press Shift+F7, I get > the beep again. > > So it seems like I cannot get Function keys to work when they are > shifted. Any ideas? > > I also tried to get this to work directly on the console by removing > the definition of F11 through F20 from the actual keys, and mapping > F11-F20 to be shifted F1-F10. No luck there as well. It is like I am > fighting an operating system problem. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Sincerely, > > The_Nth_Traveler I think that if any help is available, you will get it much sooner if you specify which X-Windows software you are using with MS Windows. Specify both the name of the product and the version. You might also spell out which version of Windows you are using and the version of VMS. With a little bit of luck you might find an LK250 or an LK450 keyboard somewhere. These are PC keyboards with the DEC keypad and key layout. The LK250 is older and has the PC/PC-XT/PC-AT style connector. The LK450 has more modern arrangements. I have one of each but I'm not yet willing to part with them! Without a DEC keyboard, you are going to have to depend on software emulation of some sort. Your PC/X-windows may offer something but without knowing what it is, I can't say more. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:36:20 -0800 (PST) From: The_Nth_Traveler Subject: Re: Shifted Function Keys On OpenVMS XWindows Don't Work Message-ID: On Dec 13, 4:21 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > The_Nth_Traveler wrote: > > Summary: > > I would like to know how to get function keys F11-F20 to map to Shift- > > F1 to Shift-F10 on a Windows based Xserver connecting to Xwindows on > > OpenVMS > > > Folks, > > > I have been trying to use an OpenVMS Alpha system over Xwindows on a > > Windows PC instead of a VT terminal emulator. > > > Through the use of an Windows based XWindows server, I have been able > > to establish an XWindows logon just as if I were at the system > > console. > > > However, one of my applications requires the use of the keys F7-F20. > > On the system console, I of course have dedicated physical keys for > > these function keys (it is a LK411 keyboard). However, on a PC I only > > have F1-F12. > > > I would like to make the PC function keys F1-F10 work as OpenVMS > > function keys F11-F20 when shifted, i.e. Shift-F2=F12. > > > I wrote a simple DCL script to define the programmable keys to output > > the name of the key pressed, i.e.: > > > $ ! KEY_TEST.COM > > $ set terminal /application_keypad > > $ set terminal /noline_editing > > $ define /key PF1 "PF1 " > > $ define /key PF2 "PF2 " > > . > > . > > . > > $ define /key F19 "F19 " > > $ define /key F20 "F20 " > > > On a VT terminal emulator, I was able to get all the keys to work, > > including keys F11-F20 (except on this emulator, F11-F20 is defined as > > CTRL+F1, etc.). When I press "F13" (i.e. CTRL-F3), I get "F13 " shown > > on the screen (after running the KEY_TEST.COM script). > > > Both the VT terminal emulator and Xwindows server have a means to > > redefine the output of the keyboard. I have done so on both the VT > > and Xwindows. On the XWindows server, I have defined F11 to be Shift- > > F1, F12 to be Shift -F2, etc. > > > When logging onto the OpenVMS system via the Windows based Xwindows > > server, the OpenVMS system shows the Xwindow F7 key (keycode=72) to be > > defined as "keycode 72 = F7 F17" (as shown by the DECW > > $UTILS:XMODMAP.EXE tool with options -pke, i.e. xmodmap -pke). > > > And when using DECW$UTILS:XEV.EXE, and I press and release F7, I get > > > KeyPress event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161257078, (35,51), root:(210,957) > > state 0x0, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffc4), F7), same_screen YES, > > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > > KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161257203, (35,51), root:(210,957) > > state 0x0, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffc4), F7), same_screen YES, > > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > > Now when I press the key combination Shift+F7, I get > > > KeyPress event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161659734, (35,51), root:(210,957) > > state 0x0, keycode 61 (keysym 0xffe2), Shift_R), same_screen YES, > > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > > KeyPress event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161660250, (35,51), root:(210,957) > > state 0x1, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffce), F17), same_screen YES, > > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > > KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161660328, (35,51), root:(210,957) > > state 0x1, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffce), F17), same_screen YES, > > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > > KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, > > root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161660500, (35,51), root:(210,957) > > state 0x1, keycode 61 (keysym 0xffe2), Shift_R), same_screen YES, > > XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" > > > which is what I believe I would expect. > > > However, if I do this at a VMS prompt (i.e. $), I simply get a beep, > > and nothing else is shown on the screen. > > > Now , if I issue the command at the OpenVMS prompt: > > > $ xmodmap -e "keycode 72 = F17 F7" > > > And then press the F7 key, F17 shows up! When I press Shift+F7, I get > > the beep again. > > > So it seems like I cannot get Function keys to work when they are > > shifted. Any ideas? > > > I also tried to get this to work directly on the console by removing > > the definition of F11 through F20 from the actual keys, and mapping > > F11-F20 to be shifted F1-F10. No luck there as well. It is like I am > > fighting an operating system problem. > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > Sincerely, > > > The_Nth_Traveler > > I think that if any help is available, you will get it much sooner if > you specify which X-Windows software you are using with MS Windows. > Specify both the name of the product and the version. You might also > spell out which version of Windows you are using and the version of VMS. > > With a little bit of luck you might find an LK250 or an LK450 keyboard > somewhere. These are PC keyboards with the DEC keypad and key layout. > The LK250 is older and has the PC/PC-XT/PC-AT style connector. The > LK450 has more modern arrangements. I have one of each but I'm not yet > willing to part with them! > > Without a DEC keyboard, you are going to have to depend on software > emulation of some sort. Your PC/X-windows may offer something but > without knowing what it is, I can't say more. My apologies. I should have included versions. I am on a Windows XP SP2 system using Kea! X Server v6.00.191 (by Attachmate). Furthermore, I am on OpenVMS 7.3-1 using DecWindows Motif 1.2-6 for OpenVMS. As I mentioned, the Kea! X server does provide a way to map different keysyms to different physical keys, such as through xmodmap. However, as I mentioned, I can use the xmodmap on OpenVMS to attempt to do the same thing at the console (I know there is no reason to do this, as the LK411 keyboard has F1-F20, but I am attempting to isolate the problem). So this takes the Kea! X Server and Windows out of the equation. So it seems that it is something with OpenVMS or DecWindows/ Motif on the system itself. Just what that is, I do not know. Thanks again... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:26:13 -0500 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception Message-ID: <4761BF95.4050207@comcast.net> Volker Halle wrote: > Mark, > > thanks for providing additional information about this tool ;-) I had > a look at the source code and also tried a standalone example > (FREEWARE_V5:[SRH_EXAMPLES]I_SPI.C) for the EXE$GETSPI call on V8.3 > (with VMS83A_UPDATE-V0400 installed) with just TMPMBX and NETMBX. It > works and does not crash. > > Now trying to convince HP that using an undocumented and unsupported > interface from user mode may create a system crash, is another > challenge. > > Brad, > > please try the most recent SPISHR.EXE available from VMS83A_MONTOR- > V0100 first. Did the crash happen immediately after starting HYPERSPI > $AGENT ? Or did it work for a while and then crashed ? The footprint is that it works "for a while" and then crashes. I'll try the MONTOR patch (no reboot necessary), and then start up Hyper$SPI again. Thanks to both you and Mark for your feedback! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:59:02 +0100 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: TECOing blank lines out of a file Message-ID: In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > In article <47607CB8.7090705@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" > writes: > > > I've only used TECO two or three times in my life but there are a few > > things that TECO can do quickly and easily; things that others cannot do > > or do only with great effort on your part. It is not an editor for the > > faint hearted and you're out of your mind if you don't backup your file > > before you start! An ill chosen keystroke can turn your file into garbage! > > But on VMS file system versioning takes care of backup automatically > unless you go out of your way to defeat it. EBfilespec for those systems which didn't support file system versioning? -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:11:32 -0800 (PST) From: nm0isn7e Subject: This Company is giving away free seo. Message-ID: I just call this seo firm and I happened to be the whatever caller and they gave me a free month of seo, So I said bull shit and they installed analytics and fixed some of my pages for nothing. So I guess thats cool, I wonder what else they will do. What are the best seo services. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 04:10:13 GMT From: Malcolm Dunnett Subject: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: OK, I've got an rx2600 running VMS 8.3. I want to create a two node cluster with the other node being a DS10L, also running VMS 8.3. I have no disks on the DS10L. No problem say's I, I'll just take one of the disks on the RX2600 and load an image backup of a VMS system disk on it (I know I can't have IA64 and Alpha system images on the same disk). So I load up a disk with the Alpha system image and head off into cluster_config to add the satellite. No Dice, it will only let me add an IA64 satellite. I tell myself there's no reason this shouldn't work, the RX2600 is just an MSCP server, serving up blocks from the Alpha system disk - why should the Alpha care what architeture the MSCP server is running on? Not to be so easily daunted I go into LANCP and add the node by hand, pointing the load image to APB on the Alpha system disk and setting up the pointer to proper system root on the Alpha disk. I define the boot type as Alpha (since obviously it is). Off to the DS10L console and >>> b ewa0 - the MOP boot requests go out but nobody answers. Go back to the RX2600 and do a SHOW NODE in LANCP. It tells me it sees the MOP requests but won't volunteer to service them. Getting sneaky I change the boot type of the DS10L to I64 and try again. Success!! After ironing out a few logicals I had messed up the DS10L comes up just fine into the cluster, running off the Alpha system disk being served by the RX2600. So am I missing something? Is there any reason this shouldn't work? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:54:13 GMT From: "Colin Butcher" Subject: Re: [OT] DEC big band [was HP to close Nashua (ZKO)] Message-ID: <9Sh8j.62522$c_1.59679@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Yup, DEC did indeed have a big band. Good one too. Maybe some of those who still play (perhaps supplemented by some of the attendees who also still play) would do a gig for the bootcamp? Suggestions for tunes please! -- Cheers, Colin. Legacy = Stuff that works properly! ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.683 ************************