INFO-VAX Mon, 21 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 42 Contents: Re: "file locked by another user" mystery Re: (longish response) Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies Re: (longish response) Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies Re: (longish response) Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies Alphastation for sale on ebay Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /NOLOGGED Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /NOLOGGED encrypt / decrypt - Anything available for Tru64 ? Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Re: How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Re: Looking for tape copy program Re: Marketing of operating sytems Re: Mike Magee to leave the INQUIRER SAP Business Solutions Re: This NG seems unusually quiet... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:50:46 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: "file locked by another user" mystery Message-ID: On Jan 10, 8:05 am, tadamsmar wrote: > On Jan 9, 1:37 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: > > > > > tadamsmarwrote: > > > On Jan 9, 10:39 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > > >>In article <8edb351d-9031-443e-b6b6-8be91c419...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com>,tadamsmar writes: > > > >>>I sometimes get this message when I don't think there is another user. > > > >>>When I try to unlock the file with "UNLOCK" is says its not locked. > > > >>>I end up rebooting. > > > >>>What this all about? Is there a way to avoid rebooting? > > > >>What file? Perhaps it is opened by the system? > > > >>$ PIPE SHOW DEVICE/FILES {ddcu:} | SEARCH SYS$PIPE {filename} > > > >>There {ddcu} is the device/volume on which the file resides and {filename} > > >>is the file name of the file you are accessing to get the error. > > > >>-- > > >>VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > > >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > > >>http://tmesis.com/drat.html > > > > Not system files. The one's today were application files. > > > You seem to be supplying an absolute minimum of useful information! > > Sorry, I have seen this problem multiple times over the years, and I > sort of assumed everyone had seen it, so I did not go into details. I > figured it was a common problem, but I guess not. > > In this case, a process tried to copy a file and got: > > %RMS-W-FLK, file currently locked by another user > > But all the other processes designed to access the file have already > exited. Could it be as simple as this? $ OPEN/WRITE BLAH BLOW.TXT $ DEAS BLAH $ SHOW DEV/FILES/OUT=A.TMP $ SEAR A.TMP BLOW FELDMAN 00009A4A [DECUSERVE_USER.FELDMAN]BLOW.TXT;1 $ OPEN/WRITE/READ BLAH BLOW.TXT %DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening EISNER$DRA3: [DECUSERVE_USER.FELDMAN]BLOW.TXT; as in put -RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user $ But this does mean some process has it open that you are unaware of. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:29:56 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: (longish response) Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies Message-ID: <13p8urn21s08cdb@corp.supernews.com> yyyc186 wrote: > Here is what the Kirkus reviewer had to say. I guess this explains > why there were no OpenVMS books in their review database. > > This hefty tome provides brief and > rambling introductions to programming on OpenVMS in a number of > languages. In overall structure, this guide to programming on an > OpenVMS platform is logically laid out. An introduction to OpenVMS is > followed by overviews of source control systems, programming to > interact with VMSMAIL, reporting services and finally, a number of > programming languages: DCL, BASIC, Fortran, COBOL, C and C++. The same > application--a simple lottery demonstration with input and out- put > datasets--is re-implemented in each of the languages. At its simplest, > this is a common and straight-forward layout for an introductory > programming manual. The individual chapters, however, are incoherent. > The introduction to VMS wanders from simple concepts such as logging > in and symbol assignment to a sweeping and unclear description of > system logicals to the complexity of ACLs. The chapter on Fortran > interrupts a discussion of Fortran fundamentals such as line numbers > and numeric operators with several paragraphs on the history of > Fortran batch processing. The COBOL chapter wonders why the owners of > the OpenVMS operating system haven't modified all programming > languages implemented on the operating system to match functionality > that text finds desirable in COBOL. The chapter on C and C++ treats C+ > + as a mere functional enhancement of C, and scoffs at the object- > oriented functionality of C++. OpenVMS-specific variables, constants > and extensions are usefully listed, but the context does not allow for > clear explanation of their functionality. A clos- > ing chapter of "Ruminations and Observations" is an incoherent and > ranting distraction from what utility the technical chapters provide. > A nice idea but lacks clarity. Bill Gunshannon wrote: 8< snip 8< > Well, your mistake is obvious. See the pointers above. As soon as you > questioned the world-saving notion of OO you were doomed. IanMiller wrote: 8< snip 8< > or perhaps he just does not like your style. You may find that > reviewer has a particular dislike for books with personality. Arne Vajhøj wrote: 8< snip 8< > I assume it s a book about programming on VMS and not a book > about programming in general. > > None of system services, run time libraries etc. have object > oriented API's. I would not necessarily have chipped in here but for recent contact with Roland Hughes on related and non-related topics. All of the above seem relevant comment, particularly Ian Miller's which essentially encapsulates my own conclusion (FWIW). Arne's first comment is significant too. I received a complimentary copy of this publication via the 2006 Bootcamp and became seriously concerned about my return flight excess baggage. It holds its own (complete with CD-based code examples) even against today's textbook standards. It is not necessarily a book I would have purchased, having done "intro to programming" texts to death over the last thirty years. (Of course that says more about my stage of career than about the book.) But I did have it (along with a Dawkins and a Follet) and I did have the flight time from Boston to Vancouver to employ, so I did carefully read some sections, scanned others, and passed over even more. I have just spent a couple of hours doing the same thing again, for the purposes of this post. I'm pretty sure I've arrived at the same impression this second time. Reading "The Minimum You Need to Know to be an OpenVMS Application Developer" left the impression that Roland is a professional software developer, not a professional writer. This is not necessarily a strong criticism unless he is is claiming the latter (which until his income from publication approaches his erstwhile earnings... :-) The book is not written in a dispassionate or deferential style. I can imagine the referenced reviewer's hackles rising before completing the first paragraph - "...on lesser platforms, namely Windows and UNIX..." Roland does not hesitate to state it the way he understands it. In my experience this is unusual in technical tomes. Again, not necessarily a criticism. I am sure many would laud such "attitude" in times where where so much else seems at best "promotional". The reviewer's criticism as "incoherent" seems far too dramatic but the chapters sometimes do seem to meander a little in places. For example; 1.3 Symbols, 1.4+1.5+1.6+1.7 'editors', 1.8 Logicals, 1.9 ACLs and the UAF, 1.10 Logical Name tables. Symbols/logicals/tables I would have thought would be better grouped together. And the chapter including the Message Utility, Mail and Phone a little mismatched. Perhaps others. I didn't read the Fortran chapter. Of course it's easy to stand outside and say, "I would have done it [better] this way." I'm sure it's not intended as a systematic treatment of VMS per se. Had Roland titled the book "All You Need to Know ..." it would have needed to be (shades of the multi-volume Knuth). It's not; it's "The Minimum You Need ..." and consequently must attempt to sweep across a huge swathe of subject material. I carefully read the chapters on FMS, CDD, C/C++ and MySQL. The first two because I had nothing to do with them during my time with VMS and was curious. The C/C++ because I have done some C (VAXC and DECC) programming on the platform. The MySQL section because it is so fundamental to a huge number of open-source applications that these days it is as must-have for a platform as Perl and Apache. His advocacy for this poor-man's RDMS reflects a pragmatic requirement in modern IT. His description of RDB in a compare-and-contrast made a worthwhile exercise (particularly considering my paucity of RDB knowledge).. I would point out to the reviewer that the chapter entitled "Ruminations ..." was introduced as just that. As with any other work; stop reading if it is of no profit to you. I do not know if Roland had professional or peer editorial and review assistance. I would say it is mandatory for any non-trivial undertaking, especially a technical text of this intended scope. Style aside, it seems valuable just for it's breadth, essential technical content, and programming examples; particularly considering all the common development environments (COBOL, Fortran, BASIC, et al) are represented. It seems to have accomplished its titled goal. In addition (AIUI) Roland pretty-much did the hack-work, the production and is doing the distribution. Such a personal undertaking would have been highly laudable as all this got underway in the [19]70s. In the early twenty-first century only more so. In the same vein as "...not a professional writer...", this is not a systematic critique from a professional reviewer. Just some impressions from an interested member of the community. Cheers, Mark. -- If we can't think for ourselves, if we're unwilling to question authority, then we're just putty in the hands of those in power. But if the citizens are educated and form their own opinions, then those in power work for us. In every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method... [Carl Sagan; The Demon-Haunted World] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:17:05 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: (longish response) Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies Message-ID: In article <13p8urn21s08cdb@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Daniel writes: > > >yyyc186 wrote: >> Here is what the Kirkus reviewer had to say. I guess this explains >> why there were no OpenVMS books in their review database. Can somebody please provide a URL for this review? I've visited the Kirkus Reviews site and entered OpenVMS and it can't find articles. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:59:24 -0800 (PST) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: (longish response) Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies Message-ID: On Jan 21, 7:17 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <13p8urn21s08...@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Daniel writes: > > >yyyc186 wrote: > >> Here is what the Kirkus reviewer had to say. I guess this explains > >> why there were no OpenVMS books in their review database. > > Can somebody please provide a URL for this review? I've visited the > Kirkus Reviews site and entered OpenVMS and it can't find articles. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html It currently isn't on their site. I doubt it will be. The contact I had there questioned the review, but it is the only reviewer they had for such material. The text of it was posted at the beginning of this thread. Roland ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:49:39 -0800 (PST) From: trivialpursuit07@gmail.com Subject: Alphastation for sale on ebay Message-ID: <64002e58-003d-4fe0-8c8f-adbb11a2351f@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> Hi, I am selling my alphastation xp900 on ebay. It has 768 megabytes of memory and 2 - nine gigabyte drives and a 466 mhz processor. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270204063920 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:36:59 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <47944c90$0$22043$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> > The desktop world is 95% Windows, Maybe inside HP it is. But in the real world, Windows is way down on the desktop. (I think it is down to 85%). And remember that Linux Apple and Windows compete in the server market, and each's market share is probably orders of magnitute larger than what VMS still has. More importantly, they each get far more development resources than what HP allows the VMS group to have. So the gap will only widen at an accerelated pace. Also, in terms of Dekstop, HP has made its bed with Microsoft and VMS isn't going to be sleeping in it, ever. It has been restricted to the basement. Heck, HP doesn't even want to market VMS as a server OS. It barely tolerates VMS being mentioned. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:11:06 +0000 (UTC) From: JKB Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: Le 20-01-2008, à propos de Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS?, Bill Gunshannon écrivait dans comp.os.vms : > In article , > "Main, Kerry" writes: >> >>> From: Bill Gunshannon >>> Sent: January 20, 2008 11:31 AM >>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>> Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? >>> >>> In article >>> >> t>, >>> "Main, Kerry" writes: >>> > >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply >>> >> [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de] >>> >> Sent: January 18, 2008 2:45 PM >>> >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>> >> Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? >>> >> >>> >> In article <4786D5CC.94F055F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera >>> >> writes: >>> >> >>> >> > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: >>> >> > > >>> >> > > In article <4781869B.FA5DD8F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J >>> Dachtera >>> >> > > writes: >>> >> > > >>> >> > > > There is a Free VMS project around. Haven't heard much about >>> it >>> >> lately, >>> >> > > > though. Google this group for the Free VMS project. >>> >> > > >>> >> > > It's been around for years and what they have is very >>> rudimentary. >>> >> > >>> >> > Remember the early days of Linux? >>> >> >>> >> What was the time span between Linus's first attempts and the first >>> >> ready-to-use "commercial" Linux? >>> > >>> > Imho, there are so many monthly security patches, I would say it is >>> > still in bake mode. Course, Windows is in the same boat, so I guess >>> > it depends on what you mean by ready-to-use. >>> >>> You know Kerry, if your just going to trot out the same tired old >>> mantra maybe you should just hit the delete key and let people who >>> have useful information to provide answer. >>> >> >> Hard to argue with hard facts that are backed with real pointers. >> >> Now, you can say Windows/Linux have better marketing and other things, but >> that does not take away from the reality of their numerous security issues >> and patches released each and every month. > > And FreeVMS is nothing but a Linux kernel, so it obviously suffers > from the same problems as "normal" Linux. No. FreeVMS _was_ built over a 2.4.15 linux kernel. Only _was_. There are today a lot of differences between a linux kernel and FreeVMS. If you download 0.3.9 sources you shall see that kernel is only a part of these sources and if its directory is named "linux", it isn't a linux kernel. JKB -- Le cerveau, c'est un véritable scandale écologique. Il représente 2% de notre masse corporelle, mais disperse à lui seul 25% de l'énergie que nous consommons tous les jours. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 13:53:44 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vjmf7F1ldmcnU1@mid.individual.net> In article , JKB writes: > Le 20-01-2008, à propos de > Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS?, > Bill Gunshannon écrivait dans comp.os.vms : >> In article , >> "Main, Kerry" writes: >>> >>>> From: Bill Gunshannon >>>> Sent: January 20, 2008 11:31 AM >>>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>>> Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? >>>> >>>> In article >>>> >>> t>, >>>> "Main, Kerry" writes: >>>> > >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply >>>> >> [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de] >>>> >> Sent: January 18, 2008 2:45 PM >>>> >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>>> >> Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? >>>> >> >>>> >> In article <4786D5CC.94F055F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera >>>> >> writes: >>>> >> >>>> >> > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > In article <4781869B.FA5DD8F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J >>>> Dachtera >>>> >> > > writes: >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > > There is a Free VMS project around. Haven't heard much about >>>> it >>>> >> lately, >>>> >> > > > though. Google this group for the Free VMS project. >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > It's been around for years and what they have is very >>>> rudimentary. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Remember the early days of Linux? >>>> >> >>>> >> What was the time span between Linus's first attempts and the first >>>> >> ready-to-use "commercial" Linux? >>>> > >>>> > Imho, there are so many monthly security patches, I would say it is >>>> > still in bake mode. Course, Windows is in the same boat, so I guess >>>> > it depends on what you mean by ready-to-use. >>>> >>>> You know Kerry, if your just going to trot out the same tired old >>>> mantra maybe you should just hit the delete key and let people who >>>> have useful information to provide answer. >>>> >>> >>> Hard to argue with hard facts that are backed with real pointers. >>> >>> Now, you can say Windows/Linux have better marketing and other things, but >>> that does not take away from the reality of their numerous security issues >>> and patches released each and every month. >> >> And FreeVMS is nothing but a Linux kernel, so it obviously suffers >> from the same problems as "normal" Linux. > > No. FreeVMS _was_ built over a 2.4.15 linux kernel. Only _was_. > There are today a lot of differences between a linux kernel and > FreeVMS. Really? What percent of the kernel has been re-written? My guess is less than 1%. It's linux. And until you take the time and effort to write an entire new kernel that implements the VMS paradigm as opposed to the Unix paradigm it will continue to be nothing bu Linux with a different user interface. > If you download 0.3.9 sources you shall see that kernel is > only a part of these sources and if its directory is named "linux", > it isn't a linux kernel. The OS is the kernel. The kernel is the OS. If the kernel is still primarily composed of code written by the linux weenies then it is not really VMS at all and, as Kerry should be pointing out, it suffers from all the same bugs, security problems and necessatu patching as any other linux kernel. Let me know when you plan to clean-room clone the VMS kernel, which is what Linus (supposedly) did to create Linux. Then and only then will what you have even vaguely resemble VMS rather than being just another linux distro. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:26:22 +0000 (UTC) From: JKB Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: Le 21-01-2008, à propos de Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS?, Bill Gunshannon écrivait dans comp.os.vms : > In article , > JKB writes: >> No. FreeVMS _was_ built over a 2.4.15 linux kernel. Only _was_. >> There are today a lot of differences between a linux kernel and >> FreeVMS. > > Really? What percent of the kernel has been re-written? My guess is > less than 1%. It's linux. And until you take the time and effort to > write an entire new kernel that implements the VMS paradigm as opposed > to the Unix paradigm it will continue to be nothing bu Linux with a > different user interface. You just prove that you've never seen FreeVMS sources. A lot of internal have been rewritten to implement VMS paradigms. >> If you download 0.3.9 sources you shall see that kernel is >> only a part of these sources and if its directory is named "linux", >> it isn't a linux kernel. > > The OS is the kernel. The kernel is the OS. If the kernel is still > primarily composed of code written by the linux weenies then it is > not really VMS at all and, as Kerry should be pointing out, it suffers > from all the same bugs, security problems and necessatu patching as > any other linux kernel. No. You cannot patch this kernel with linux patches because it's NOT a linux kernel. I don't know if there is more or less bugs than in linux kernel, but these bugs are _different_. > Let me know when you plan to clean-room clone the VMS kernel, which is > what Linus (supposedly) did to create Linux. Your supposition is erroneous. Linus has modified Minix kernel. Is Linux a Minix kernel ? > Then and only then will > what you have even vaguely resemble VMS rather than being just another > linux distro. FreeVMS is not a new linux distro. EOT -- Le cerveau, c'est un véritable scandale écologique. Il représente 2% de notre masse corporelle, mais disperse à lui seul 25% de l'énergie que nous consommons tous les jours. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 08:49:08 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > What was the time span between Linus's first attempts and the first > ready-to-use "commercial" Linux? Certainly MUCH less than the time > between the beginning of Free VMS and now. And, of course, Unix is much > easier to do than VMS. Of course it is. The original UNIX kernel and the original Linux kernel were both pure timesharing kernels. The original VMS kernel is more complex, making it fairly good at doing hard real-time. Some commercial UNIX have, over the years, added complexity so that they are better at real-time than the original. Linus has started allowing contributions from the real-time community into the Linux kernel. But no timesharing kernel is particulary usefull without utilities, and Linux got a much better head start by layering on the gnu utilities whereas a similar set of VMS-like utilities has to be born from scratch (or nearly so). A "Free VMS" kernel without VMS style utilities is not very usefull to many people. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 08:53:41 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article <4fadncCWRdGP_w_anZ2dnUVZ_q3inZ2d@comcast.com>, pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) writes: > > The only Linux types that get upset if you say Linux is related to Unix > are GNU Fanboys and Fangirls. > Linux isn't UNIX. But if it walks like a duck, and it talks like a duck, ... Oh, wait can just call then all (Linux, SVID, BSD, ...) "eunichs". Then nobody can complain. 8-) ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 08:58:03 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article <4793B85E.6040901@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > The the VMS source was/is available but it wasn't/isn't cheap and the > licensing issues are a real obstacle! I'm not sure that the *complete* > and *buildable* source was ever released. The VMS source listings did ship with the binaries and later only cost a couple $K. But those of us who've had access to it take our knowledge seriously and avoid contributing to FreeVMS so that it won't be subject to IP lawsuits. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 09:01:30 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article <5vjmf7F1ldmcnU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > The OS is the kernel. The kernel is the OS. A kernel without utilities is not an OS. It's a start. You couldn't give away Linux to very many people without the gnu utilities bundled in. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 15:14:40 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vjr70F1mmfp7U1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <4fadncCWRdGP_w_anZ2dnUVZ_q3inZ2d@comcast.com>, pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) writes: >> >> The only Linux types that get upset if you say Linux is related to Unix >> are GNU Fanboys and Fangirls. >> > > Linux isn't UNIX. But if it walks like a duck, and it talks like > a duck, ... > > Oh, wait can just call then all (Linux, SVID, BSD, ...) "eunichs". > Then nobody can complain. 8-) Yeah, and now you can include FreeVMS in that same collection. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:24:21 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <4794B925.5030903@comcast.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <4793B85E.6040901@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > >>The the VMS source was/is available but it wasn't/isn't cheap and the >>licensing issues are a real obstacle! I'm not sure that the *complete* >>and *buildable* source was ever released. > > > The VMS source listings did ship with the binaries and later only > cost a couple $K. But those of us who've had access to it take our > knowledge seriously and avoid contributing to FreeVMS so that it > won't be subject to IP lawsuits. > Yeah! I think I have microfiche source listings for VMS V4.x somewhere. They can be a big help if you are trying to interpret a crash dump of the version you have AND you are familiar with VMS Internals. But, VMS doesn't crash all that often, and the crash dump weenies in Colorado are a hell of lot better at it than I am. (I saw, at most, two crash dumps per year and the dump weenies do three or four per day!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:32:40 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article <4794B925.5030903@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > >Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article <4793B85E.6040901@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> >>>The the VMS source was/is available but it wasn't/isn't cheap and the >>>licensing issues are a real obstacle! I'm not sure that the *complete* >>>and *buildable* source was ever released. >> >> >> The VMS source listings did ship with the binaries and later only >> cost a couple $K. But those of us who've had access to it take our >> knowledge seriously and avoid contributing to FreeVMS so that it >> won't be subject to IP lawsuits. >> > >Yeah! I think I have microfiche source listings for VMS V4.x somewhere. >They can be a big help if you are trying to interpret a crash dump of >the version you have AND you are familiar with VMS Internals. But, VMS >doesn't crash all that often, and the crash dump weenies in Colorado are >a hell of lot better at it than I am. (I saw, at most, two crash dumps >per year and the dump weenies do three or four per day!) WEENIES! I happen to be a _crash_dump_weenie_ and I know several of the "crash dump weenies in Colorado" too. I sat in Rob Eulenstein's class: OpenVMS crash dump analysis _for_crash_dump_weenies_ given by a _crash_- _dump_weenie_ (Rob Eulenstein) _from_Colorado_. I've also been in crash dump classes headed up by another _crash_dump_weenie_, Ruth Goldenberg, back in 1992 for Alpha. Good company in this "pack of weenies". -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:11:57 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <4794D25D.2030008@comcast.net> VAXman- wrote: > In article <4794B925.5030903@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > >> >>Bob Koehler wrote: >> >>>In article <4793B85E.6040901@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>> >>> >>>>The the VMS source was/is available but it wasn't/isn't cheap and the >>>>licensing issues are a real obstacle! I'm not sure that the *complete* >>>>and *buildable* source was ever released. >>> >>> >>> The VMS source listings did ship with the binaries and later only >>> cost a couple $K. But those of us who've had access to it take our >>> knowledge seriously and avoid contributing to FreeVMS so that it >>> won't be subject to IP lawsuits. >>> >> >>Yeah! I think I have microfiche source listings for VMS V4.x somewhere. >>They can be a big help if you are trying to interpret a crash dump of >>the version you have AND you are familiar with VMS Internals. But, VMS >>doesn't crash all that often, and the crash dump weenies in Colorado are >>a hell of lot better at it than I am. (I saw, at most, two crash dumps >>per year and the dump weenies do three or four per day!) > > > WEENIES! I happen to be a _crash_dump_weenie_ and I know several of the > "crash dump weenies in Colorado" too. I sat in Rob Eulenstein's class: > OpenVMS crash dump analysis _for_crash_dump_weenies_ given by a _crash_- > _dump_weenie_ (Rob Eulenstein) _from_Colorado_. I've also been in crash > dump classes headed up by another _crash_dump_weenie_, Ruth Goldenberg, > back in 1992 for Alpha. Good company in this "pack of weenies". > Ruth "wrote the book". I'm fortunate enough to have a copy of her text on crash dump analysis "VAX/VMS Troubleshooting" EY-5315E-P0-0001. The lady knows her stuff and writes well too! I attended a class at a DECUS Symposium as well. I never saw enough dumps to get the kind of practice it takes to be able to read one like a comic book! One or two per year just does not generate the incentive or the experience it takes to get really good at it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:31:12 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article <4794D25D.2030008@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > >VAXman- wrote: >> In article <4794B925.5030903@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> >>> >>>Bob Koehler wrote: >>> >>>>In article <4793B85E.6040901@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>>The the VMS source was/is available but it wasn't/isn't cheap and the >>>>>licensing issues are a real obstacle! I'm not sure that the *complete* >>>>>and *buildable* source was ever released. >>>> >>>> >>>> The VMS source listings did ship with the binaries and later only >>>> cost a couple $K. But those of us who've had access to it take our >>>> knowledge seriously and avoid contributing to FreeVMS so that it >>>> won't be subject to IP lawsuits. >>>> >>> >>>Yeah! I think I have microfiche source listings for VMS V4.x somewhere. >>>They can be a big help if you are trying to interpret a crash dump of >>>the version you have AND you are familiar with VMS Internals. But, VMS >>>doesn't crash all that often, and the crash dump weenies in Colorado are >>>a hell of lot better at it than I am. (I saw, at most, two crash dumps >>>per year and the dump weenies do three or four per day!) >> >> >> WEENIES! I happen to be a _crash_dump_weenie_ and I know several of the >> "crash dump weenies in Colorado" too. I sat in Rob Eulenstein's class: >> OpenVMS crash dump analysis _for_crash_dump_weenies_ given by a _crash_- >> _dump_weenie_ (Rob Eulenstein) _from_Colorado_. I've also been in crash >> dump classes headed up by another _crash_dump_weenie_, Ruth Goldenberg, >> back in 1992 for Alpha. Good company in this "pack of weenies". >> > >Ruth "wrote the book". I'm fortunate enough to have a copy of her text >on crash dump analysis "VAX/VMS Troubleshooting" EY-5315E-P0-0001. The I have all the VMS internals books (Kenah's predated Ruth's contributions) and the EY-5315E-P0-0001 of which you speak. (Revision 0.C Parts 1 and 2) >lady knows her stuff and writes well too! I attended a class at a DECUS > Symposium as well. I never saw enough dumps to get the kind of >practice it takes to be able to read one like a comic book! One or two >per year just does not generate the incentive or the experience it takes >to get really good at it. Hacking in kernel mode all these years, I've seen many many more than you. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 09:03:48 +0100 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Message-ID: <47945ff4@news.langstoeger.at> In article , already5chosen@yahoo.com writes: >I again tried I tried one-liner option file containing "PS PAPER_SIZE >A4". It made no difference at all. This time I'm pretty sure that the >syntax is o.k. Try "PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE A4" too SYS$EXAMPLES:EXAMPLE_WRITE_PS.CDA$OPTIONS .______________________________________________________________________________ . Sample Options File for PS Output Converter . _____________________________________________ . . You are reading the EXAMPLE_WRITE_PS.CDA$OPTIONS sample . options file for the PS (PostScript) output converter. This file . contains the following information: . . 1. Sample options. To find this section search for ". 1" . . 2. How to edit the sample options file. (Search for ". 2") . . 3. Options reference for the PS output converter. To find this . section search for ". 3" . . NOTE: The period (.) at the beginning of a line in a sample options . file means the line is a comment. Comments allow descriptions . to be inserted without disrupting the conversion. . . The exclamation mark (!) denotes an alternative processing . option that you can include by removing the exclamation mark. . . If no exclamation mark/period exists at the start of the line, . the line contains a processing option. All processing options . in this file specify ONLY the default values for their parameters. . . WHERE THE PROCESSING OPTION ACCEPTS INPUT (denoted by an equals . sign (=) after the option parameter setting) YOU MUST INSERT . YOU OWN VALUES AND FILENAMES. (Search for "="). . . A summary explanation follows the default processing option . contained in Section 1. See Section 3 for a more detailed . explanation of the default and alternative processing option. . .____________________________________________________________________________ . 1. Sample Options - Edit this section to suit your conversion .___________________ requirements. See Section 2 for help. PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE A !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE A0 !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE A1 !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE A2 !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE A0 !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE A4 !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE A !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE B !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE C !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE D !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE E !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE LEDGER !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE LEGAL !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE LETTER !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE LP !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE VT . This option lets you select a paper size to be used when formatting the . Postscript output file. The default setting is PAPER_SIZE A. !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_HEIGHT 11 IN . This option allows you to select a paper height to describe the . paper size. !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_WIDTH 8.5 IN . This options allows you to select a paper width to describe the . paper size. !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_TOP_MARGIN O.25 IN . This options allows you to select the width of the top margin. !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_BOTTOM_MARGIN 0.25 IN . This options allows you to select the width of the bottom margin. !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_LEFT_MARGIN 0.25 IN . This options allows you to select the width of the left margin. !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_RIGHT_MARGIN 0.25 IN . This options allows you to select the width of the right margin. PS_OUTPUT PAPER_ORIENTATION PORTRAIT !PS_OUTPUT PAPER_ORIENTATION LANDSCAPE . This options allows you to select the orientation of the pages. PS_OUTPUT EIGHT_BIT_OUTPUT ON !PS_OUTPUT EIGHT_BIT_OUTPUT OFF . This options allows you to select whether or not the Postscript output file needs to support 8-bit output. PS_OUTPUT LAYOUT ON !PS_OUTPUT LAYOUT OFF . This options allows you to select whether you want any layout . information in the intermediate representation of the input file to be . represented in the Postscript output file or ignored. PS_OUTPUT PAGE_WRAP ON !PS_OUTPUT PAGE_WRAP OFF . This options allows you to select whether or not you want page . wrapping to be performed before the Postscript output file is created. PS_OUTPUT SOFT_DIRECTIVES ON !PS_OUTPUT SOFT_DIRECTIVES OFF . This options allows you to select whether the soft directives in . the intermediate representation of the input file are passed . along to the Postscript output file or are ignored. If soft . directives are allowed to pass through, the output file will . look more as you intended it to. PS_OUTPUT WORD_WRAP ON !PS_OUTPUT WORD_WRAP OFF . This options allows you to select whether you want word wrapping . to be performed before the Postscript output file is created. .______________________________________________________________________________ . 2. How to edit the sample options file ._______________________________________ . The options in the supplied sample options file . specified in Section 1 may not exactly suit your . particular requirements. If required, you can modify . the options specified in the sample options files to . make your conversions run more smoothly or to give enhanced . conversion. . Modify the sample options file using a text editor as follows. . o Search for the processing option name that you want to modify. . Use the FIND key of the terminal editing keypad which executes a . string search operation on most VMS editors. . o If you want to include an alternative processing option as . part of the conversion do the following: . _ Insert an exclamation mark (!) at the beginning . of the line containing the default processing option. . _ Delete the exclamation mark (!) at the beginning of . the line containing the alternative processing option . that you want to include. . o If you want to exclude an alternative processing option as . part of the conversion do the following: . _ Insert an exclamation mark (!) at the beginning of . the line containing the processing option that you . want to exclude. . _ Delete the exclamation mark (!) at the beginning . of the line containing the default processing option. . o Search for ". 3" to find detailed information about the . processing options contained in the sample options file. . This information is contained in Section 3 of this file, . "Options reference for the PS output converter." . For more information about modifying processing options . files, see Chapter 2 of "Using the CDA Converter Library" . Manual. . .______________________________________________________________________________ . 3. Options reference for the PS output converter .___________________________________________________ . . .PAPER_SIZE paper-size .+++++++++++++++++++++ . This option lets you select a paper size to be used when formatting the . Postscript output file. . The following are the PAPER_SIZE options : . o A0 (841 x 1189 mm) . o A1 (594 x 841 mm) . o A2 (420 x 594 mm) . o A3 (297 x 420 mm) . o A4 (210 x 297 mm) . o A (8.5 x 11 inches) . o B (11 x 17 inches) . o C (17 x 22 inches) . o D (22 x 34 inches) . o E (34 x 44 inches) . o LEDGER (11 x 17 inches) . o LEGAL 8.5 x 14 inches) . o LETTER (8.5 x 11 inches) . o LP (13.7 x 11 inches) . o VT (8 x 5 inches) .______________________________________________________________________________ . .PAPER_HEIGHT paper-height .+++++++++++++++++++++++++ . This option allows you to select a paper height to describe the . paper size. The paper-height parameter will accept dimensions in . points inches, millimeters or centimeters. Points are a printer's . measure. There are 72 points to the inch. Points can be abbreviated . to "pt" or "po" after the paper height amount. . The units are specified after the paper size dimension. For example . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_HEIGHT 11 IN . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_HEIGHT 250 MM . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_HEIGHT 500 PT . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_HEIGHT 25 CM .______________________________________________________________________________ . .PAPER_WIDTH paper-width .+++++++++++++++++++++++ . . This options allows you to select a paper width to describe the . paper size. The paper-width parameter will accept dimensions in . points, inches, millimeters or centimeters. . The units are specified after the paper width dimension. For example: . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_WIDTH 7 IN . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_WIDTH 180 MM . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_WIDTH 18 CM . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_WIDTH 720 PT .______________________________________________________________________________ . .PAPER_TOP_MARGIN paper-top-margin .+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ . This options allows you to select the width of the top margin. . The paper-top-margin parameter will accept dimensions in points, . inches, millimeters or centimeters. . The units are specified after the paper-top-margin dimension. . For example: . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_TOP_MARGIN .25 IN . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_TOP_MARGIN 10 MM . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_TOP_MARGIN 1 CM . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_TOP_MARGIN 18 PT .______________________________________________________________________________ . .PAPER_BOTTOM_MARGIN paper-top-margin .++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ . This options allows you to select the width of the bottom margin. . The paper-bottom-margin parameter will accept dimensions in points, . inches, millimeters or centimeters. . The units are specified after the paper-bottom-margin dimension. . For example: . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_BOTTOM_MARGIN .25 IN . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_BOTTOM_MARGIN 10 MM . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_BOTTOM_MARGIN 1 CM . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_BOTTOM_MARGIN 18 PT .______________________________________________________________________________ . .PAPER_LEFT_MARGIN paper-left-margin .+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ . This options allows you to select the width of the left margin. . The paper-left-margin parameter will accept dimensions in points, . inches, millimeters or centimeters. . The units are specified after the paper-left-margin dimension. . For example: . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_LEFT_MARGIN .25 IN . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_LEFT_MARGIN 10 MM . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_LEFT_MARGIN 1 CM . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_LEFT_MARGIN 18 PT .______________________________________________________________________________ . .PAPER_RIGHT_MARGIN paper-right-margin .+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ . This options allows you to select the width of the right margin. . The paper-right-margin parameter will accept dimensions in . points, inches, millimeters or centimeters. . The units are specified after the paper-right-margin dimension. . For example: . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_RIGHT_MARGIN .25 IN . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_RIGHT_MARGIN 10 MM . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_RIGHT_MARGIN 1 CM . o PS_OUTPUT PAPER_RIGHT_MARGIN 18 PT .______________________________________________________________________________ . .PAPER_ORIENTATION paper-orientation .+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ . This options allows you to select the orientation of the pages. . The following are the options for the paper-orientation: . o PORTRAIT . The paper is taller than it is wide. . o LANDSCAPE . The paper is wider than it is tall. .______________________________________________________________________________ . .EIGHT_BIT_OUTPUT eight_bit_output .+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ . This options allows you to select whether or not the Postscript . output file needs to support 8-bit output. . The following are the options for eight-bit-output: . o ON (alternatively TRUE or 1 may be used) . o OFF (alternatively FALSE or 0 may be used) . When EIGHT_BIT_OUTPUT is OFF, any control characters or characters . in the upper half of the ASCII character set that appear in the . input are converted to the PostScript octal string format (/ddd . where d is an octal digit). . When EIGHT_BIT_OUTPUT is ON, control characters are still converted . to the octal string format, but characters in the upper half of the . ASCII character set are passed to the PostScript output stream . unaltered. Default is ON. .______________________________________________________________________________ . .LAYOUT layout .+++++++++++++ . This options allows you to select whether you want any layout . information in the intermediate representation of the input file to be . represented in the Postscript output file or ignored. . The following are the options for layout: . o ON (alternatively TRUE or 1 may be used) . o OFF (alternatively FALSE or 0 may be used) . During the conversion process the original document is converted to . an intermediate format that can represent the document content (eg . the words on the page) and the document layout (eg one column on . page 1, two columns on page all other pages). When LAYOUT is ON, the . converter uses the layout information in the intermediate . representation when positioning the document content on the page. . When LAYOUT is OFF, the converter ignores any layout information in . the original document and determines the position of the document . content itself. Default is ON. . .______________________________________________________________________________ . .PAGE_WRAP page-wrap .+++++++++++++++++++ . This options allows you to select whether or not you want page . wrapping to be performed before the Postscript output file is created. . The following are the options for page-wrap: . o ON (alternatively TRUE or 1 may be used) . o OFF (alternatively FALSE or 0 may be used) .______________________________________________________________________________ . .SOFT_DIRECTIVES soft-directives .+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ . This options allows you to select whether the soft directives in . the intermediate representation of the input file are passed along to . the Postscript output file or are ignored. If soft directives are . allowed to pass through, the output file will look more as you . intended it to. . The following are the options for soft-directives: . o ON (alternatively TRUE or 1 may be used) . o OFF (alternatively FALSE or 0 may be used) . The document content can contain "soft directives" that indicate . where the application that produced the original document decided . where to start new lines or pages when positioning the content in . the original layout. These are distinguished from "hard directives" . that indicate where the user that created the original document . decided to start new lines or pages. When the SOFT_DIRECTIVES . option is OFF, the converter ignores soft directives in the . intermediate representation, and decides itself where to start new . lines and pages. (If you turn OFF the LAYOUT option, it probably . makes sense to also turn off the SOFT_DIRECTIVES option.) When the . SOFT_DIRECTIVES option is ON, the converter obeys the soft . directives in the document content. The default is ON. . .______________________________________________________________________________ . .WORD_WRAP word-wrap .+++++++++++++++++++ . This options allows you to select whether you want word wrapping . to be performed before the Postscript output file is created. . The following are the options for word-wrap: . o ON (alternatively TRUE or 1 may be used) . o OFF (alternatively FALSE or 0 may be used) .______________________________________________________________________________ . . When you specify an option which takes a parameter, such as . WORD_WRAP multiple times in an option file, the final value used . by the converter is the last value you've specified in your . file. . .______________________________________________________________________________ -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:42:12 +0100 From: "Eberhard Heuser" Subject: Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Message-ID: <011b01c85c09$847bdc30$046d2286@vg2> Hi, show que/full show what defaults are valid. If nothing helps, then there is a freeware program called doctor, that manupulates postscript files. You can translate the VAX-binary with "VEST" and use it on alpha. http://vms.tuwien.ac.at/freewarev40/DOCTOR/ "DOCTOR/PS-Modify PostScript files This utility adds blank pages to PostScript files when required to have a balanced set of odd/even pages. It also replaces the prologue part of a PostScript file or produces an alternative output file that consists of a subset of pages. It can extract or remove encapsulated PostScript figures from a document, or re-order the page sequence to allow for saddle stitching the printed output." regards Eberhard ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 8:26 PM Subject: Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript > On Jan 9, 4:54 pm, "Eberhard Heuser" > wrote: >> Micheal, >> >> That's fine that it fits your needs. >> >> I cannot see why A3 is been selected. The postscript file come out >> in my environment on a A4 printer. It might be a wrong setup of the >> printer >> queue. >> > > > Hi Eberhard > Last week I had no time to play with convert (plus a hidden hope that > A3 output could be good enough). > Today it became obvious that people want their A4. > I again tried I tried one-liner option file containing "PS PAPER_SIZE > A4". It made no difference at all. This time I'm pretty sure that the > syntax is o.k. > > So could you describe the issue with a printer queue with little more > details? > > >> To you second question: >>.....snip > > Thanks, > I found other solution. > Out of the fear to become rather unpopular in this newsgroup I'm not > going to tell you which one exactly ;) > > Best Regards, > Michael > > P.S. > Does DECWrite editor have command line switches? If yes, where they > are documented? > I am asking because right now we have no options except DECWrite to > get the desired postscript output. So even the very basic automation, > like the ability to open a desired file without going through annoying > DECWrite menus would help. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 05:49:51 -0800 (PST) From: already5chosen@yahoo.com Subject: Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Message-ID: On Jan 21, 10:03 am, pe...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) wrote: > In article , already5cho...@yahoo.com writes: > > >I again tried I tried one-liner option file containing "PS PAPER_SIZE > >A4". It made no difference at all. This time I'm pretty sure that the > >syntax is o.k. > > Try "PS_OUTPUT PAPER_SIZE A4" too > Thanks. Tried that. It makes no difference. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 05:50:58 -0800 (PST) From: already5chosen@yahoo.com Subject: Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Message-ID: <0836a81f-4181-46b8-bd90-4573c1eeba91@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> On Jan 21, 2:46 am, JF Mezei wrote: > Do a SET WATCH FILE/CLASS=DIR (needs to be in a very privileged > account) before doing the CONVERT/DOCUMENT > > YOu will see whatever config files are being read during the conversion. > > Remember that DECWRITE uses the CDA format (compound document > architecture) and it may be linking in some style files etc while it is > being converted. Those style files may be the ones giving you the wrong > page size. Thanks. Tried that. The only files touched were cda$convert executives, input file, output file and font files. I didn't see anything resembling style files. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 05:56:48 -0800 (PST) From: already5chosen@yahoo.com Subject: Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Message-ID: <3bbca4fb-6f62-4ed8-b8e2-9e4708fe99e3@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com> On Jan 21, 10:42 am, "Eberhard Heuser" wrote: > Hi, > > show que/full show what defaults are valid. > Thanks. I tried "show que/full". Can't find anything in its output related to paper size. It seems the whole 'convert' adventure was a wast of time. So there is absolutely no easy way to automate DECWrite? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:04:41 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Message-ID: In article <3bbca4fb-6f62-4ed8-b8e2-9e4708fe99e3@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com>, already5chosen@yahoo.com writes: > > >On Jan 21, 10:42 am, "Eberhard Heuser" >wrote: >> Hi, >> >> show que/full show what defaults are valid. >> > >Thanks. I tried "show que/full". Can't find anything in its output >related to paper size. > >It seems the whole 'convert' adventure was a wast of time. > >So there is absolutely no easy way to automate DECWrite? > OK. I've created a file called TEST.TXT and in it I typed: This is a test! I then created a file called A4.CDA$OPTIONS and in it I typed: PS PAPER_SIZE A4 I then used the CONVERT/DOCUMENT commands as follows: $ CONVERT/DOCUMENT TEST.TXT/FORMAT=TEXT TEST.PS/FORMAT=PS $ CONVERT/DOCUMENT TEST.TXT/FORMAT=TEXT TEST.PS/FORMAT=PS /OPTION=A4 Then I issued: $ DIFFERENCE TEST.PS ************ File TEST$DITTIES:[DDIF]TEST.PS;2 3 %%CreationDate: 21-Jan-2008 10:47:45 4 %%BoundingBox: 18 18 578 824 5 %%Pages: 1 ****** File TEST$DITTIES:[DDIF]TEST.PS;1 3 %%CreationDate: 21-Jan-2008 10:40:28 4 %%BoundingBox: 18 18 578 774 5 %%Pages: 1 ************ ************ File TEST$DITTIES:[DDIF]TEST.PS;2 57 %%PageBoundingBox: 18 18 578 824 58 %%PageProcessColors: (atend) ****** File TEST$DITTIES:[DDIF]TEST.PS;1 57 %%PageBoundingBox: 18 18 578 774 58 %%PageProcessColors: (atend) ************ ************ File TEST$DITTIES:[DDIF]TEST.PS;2 61 /f1/F1 12/Courier/DDIF$F1 ISOLatin1plusEncoding F/page-save save def f1 18 766.55 moveto( This is a test! )show page-save r 62 showpage ****** File TEST$DITTIES:[DDIF]TEST.PS;1 61 /f1/F1 12/Courier/DDIF$F1 ISOLatin1plusEncoding F/page-save save def f1 18 716.67 moveto( This is a test! )show page-save r 62 showpage ************ Number of difference sections found: 3 Number of difference records found: 4 DIFFERENCES /IGNORE=()/MERGED=1/OUTPUT=TEST$DITTIES:[DDIF]DIFFS.TXT;1- TEST$DITTIES:[DDIF]TEST.PS;2- TEST$DITTIES:[DDIF]TEST.PS;1 Lines 7 and 57 are commentary but as you can see in line 61, the Y position in the postscript moveto (x y moveto for those unfamilar with the stack or- iented Postsctipt language) changes from 716.67 to 766.55 when my A4 option was specified. Default paper is 8.5" by 11". IIRC, A4 is 8.25" by 12". It looks like the conversion maintains the same margin widths so the x coordinate stacked in the moveto is the same. Only the position _relative_to_the_bottom_ of the page changes when A4 is specified. If you could send me a simple DECwrite doc file with a similar "This is a test!" message, I will check the Postscript code to see if there is some- thing in the procedure that is thwarting the DDIF converter's option mods. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 09:13:37 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /NOLOGGED Message-ID: article , Marc Van Dyck writes: > > Are you sure that /DETACHED and /NOPROCESS are compatible within the > same command ? For me, /DETACH tells VMS to start a detached process, > and /NOPROCESS to start no process at all, which looks rather > antinomic. /detached actually seems to just tell it not to spawn a subprocess, and /noprocess works with it. I use it all the time so I can run the debugger on a detached process, like one started as a Multinet service. I just put some heavy assumptions in the .COM file that Multinet runs as the service and connect the debugger to the first such FTA device I find. Not something one should do in a security sensitive interactive environment! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:21:35 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /NOLOGGED Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > > article , Marc Van Dyck writes: >> >> Are you sure that /DETACHED and /NOPROCESS are compatible within the >> same command ? For me, /DETACH tells VMS to start a detached process, >> and /NOPROCESS to start no process at all, which looks rather >> antinomic. > > /detached actually seems to just tell it not to spawn a subprocess, > and /noprocess works with it. I use it all the time so I can > run the debugger on a detached process, like one started as a > Multinet service. I just put some heavy assumptions in the .COM > file that Multinet runs as the service and connect the debugger > to the first such FTA device I find. While we're on this topic, I have a procedure that I execute to create a terminal that I use for debugging certain apps: $ CREATE/TERMINAL=DECTERM - /NOPROCESS - /DEFINE_LOGICAL=(TABLE=LNM$SYSTEM,DBG$INPUT,DBG$OUTPUT) - /WINDOW_ATTRIBUTES=(TITLE="*** Debugger ***",ICON_NAME="DBG",- BACKGROUND=TAN,X_POSITION={x},Y_POSITION={y}) I would like to have the terminal created in the same place on my screen everytime I invoke this procedure but no matter what values I've used for {x} and {y}, the terminal is placed at some random location. Can anybody get the X_POSITION and Y_POSITION window attributes to work? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:17:16 +0000 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: encrypt / decrypt - Anything available for Tru64 ? Message-ID: Gentle colleagues (this is cross-posted in comp.os.vms, since there might be folks there who have been there, done that etc. etc.) I find myself needing a generic file encrypt/decrypt utility for some Tru64 sites that I support. What do others use for this sort of requirement ? Ideally, it should contain similar functionality that the VMS Encrypt and Decrypt commands provide: $ help encrypt ENCRYPT There are four ENCRYPT commands: ENCRYPT Encrypts files. Before you enter this command, create a key with the ENCRYPT /CREATE_KEY command. ENCRYPT /AUTHENTICATE Checks for changes to either plain text or cipher text files (see /AUTHENTICATE). ENCRYPT /CREATE_KEY Defines a key to be used during encryption (see /CREATE_KEY). ENCRYPT /REMOVE_KEY Deletes a key definition from a key storage table (see /REMOVE_KEY). Format for the ENCRYPT Command ENCRYPT input-file key-name [qualifiers] /DATA_ALGORITHM { DESCBC (default) } /DATA_ALGORITHM= { AESmmmkkk } { } Where mmm is the mode CBC, ECB, CFB, or OFB; and kkk is 128, 192, or 256 bits. Cipher Block Chaining (CBC) and Electronic Code Book (ECB) are 16-byte block modes, meaning blocks are padded to 16 bytes if necessary during encryption. The padding is removed during decruption. Cipher Feedback (CFB) and Output Feedback (OFB) are 8-bit character stream mode emulation, useful in data communications and where no padding is required. Note that /DATA_ALGORITM=AES is a shortcut for specifying AESCBC128. The data algorithm is used with the randomly generated key to perform encryption of the file's data. When specifying an AES algorithm, specify both /KEY and /DATA=AESmmmkkk qualifiers and use an AES created key. Alternatively, has anyone built a generic encrypt/decrypt utility using the routines supplied in CDSA (Common Data Security Architecture), which is part of the Tru64 Security Subsystem (it's part of the base operating system in VMS) ? Any help much appreciated, Roy Omond Blue Bubble Ltd. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:16:39 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: In article <357aec0b-4cb3-4f73-922f-5364457ef352@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, yyyc186 writes: >On Jan 19, 10:10 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >> yyyc186 wrote: >> > I'm not really interested in looking at anything MS has to say. What >> > they produce is neither technology nor business quality software. >> > Like the rest of the world, I'm moving to Ubuntu. >> >> Ubuntu is competing for the same customers as Windows. >> >> Have you considered something more "different": Centos, >> Debian, Gentoo or maybe FreeBSD ? >> >> Arne > >I've looked at many. Ubuntu is the next wave. It has a sever edition >besides the desktop editions. While I had some problems with one >touchpad on a notebook and a minor glitch with the 64-bit version >(other than SUN not being polite enough to supply an AMD 64-bit Java >plug in) it is the cleanest implementation I have found. Novel will >once again be raped by Microsoft so we should expect SuSE to disappear >from the marketplace in about two years. That is how long it took MS >to get them to kill off DR DOS and DR MDOS. Oracle is going to use >its deep pockets to put Red Hat out of business. The product won't >improve, Red Hat will just go under when Oracle offers to provide full >corporate support for $50/year. If that plan works against Redhat then why wouldn't it work against any Linux distro including Ubantu. If Redhat falls to Oracle then that is the end of Linux distributions from anyone other than big companies like Oracle. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >Of course, Red Hat won't sell their >proprietary package code to Oracle even when they are going under, and >I don't blame them. > >That leaves Ubuntu as the distro to beat. DELL has already started >shipping it on some systems, and quite a few small PC vendors are pre- >loading it now as well. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:35:38 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > > >In article <357aec0b-4cb3-4f73-922f-5364457ef352@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, yyyc186 writes: >>On Jan 19, 10:10 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >>> yyyc186 wrote: >>> > I'm not really interested in looking at anything MS has to say. What >>> > they produce is neither technology nor business quality software. >>> > Like the rest of the world, I'm moving to Ubuntu. >>> >>> Ubuntu is competing for the same customers as Windows. >>> >>> Have you considered something more "different": Centos, >>> Debian, Gentoo or maybe FreeBSD ? >>> >>> Arne >> >>I've looked at many. Ubuntu is the next wave. It has a sever edition What is a sever edition? Once you buy and install it, it makes you want to slash your wrists out of sheer frustration? Sounds to me just like a Micro$oft product a la Weendoze. :) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:42:40 -0800 (PST) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: On Jan 20, 4:55 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > It has a server edition, but it is not very widely used. It is gaining ground and attention since a lot of companies are looking at moving their desktops to Ubuntu with OpenOffice. > > > it is the cleanest implementation I have found. > > Cleanest in what way ? Stability. Ease of installation. Polish in the automatic update procedure. Best selection of "standard" applications with default installation. > > > Novel will > > once again be raped by Microsoft so we should expect SuSE to disappear > > from the marketplace in about two years. > > So far no signs of that happening. Lots of signs actually, but to each their own. > > You can see Oracle's current price list here: > http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/els-pricelist.pdf > > I doubt they will offer the full service for 50 a year. > Doubt away. Oracle is going to turn ugly to put Red Hat out of business. Red Hat won't sell to them and Oracle, like the Borg, wishes to assimilate. They will slash the support to an absurdly low value. > > That leaves Ubuntu as the distro to beat. > > Not really. > Yes, really. > But in the server marker RHEL, SLES and to some extent Debian > battle. Ubuntu is not a major player. > We shall agree to disagree. I have been doing work for Fortunate 50 and Fortunate 10 clients and have YET to encounter a Red Hat box at _any_ of their locations or data centers. I have seen Ubuntu on DELL servers and even HP blades. Now that Microsoft Windows and HP-UX have trained upper management to accept outages and system crashes as a way of life, most companies (at least the ones I'm encountering) are looking to replace both back end servers and desktops with a single distro to reduce support issues and overhead. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:46:30 -0800 (PST) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: On Jan 21, 7:16 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > > If that plan works against Redhat then why wouldn't it work against any Linux > distro including Ubantu. If Redhat falls to Oracle then that is the end of > Linux distributions from anyone other than big companies like Oracle. > > Right now Ubuntu distro is just an organization of mostly unpaid people. It is not a corporation with stock and executives with stock options (to my knowledge). If someone is willing to live in a cave and eat what they find, it is pretty difficult to beat them with the "I work cheaper than you" strategy. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:49:24 -0800 (PST) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <9186a040-c467-4437-847e-4352fe0d9b3d@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Jan 21, 9:35 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > What is a sever edition? Once you buy and install it, it makes you want > to slash your wrists out of sheer frustration? Sounds to me just like a > Micro$oft product a la Weendoze. :) > Generally speaking, the "server edition" is a customized installation package which installs most/all of the products you need as a server, but leaves out the desktop apps. Ubuntu put a lot of effort into their customized installations. Ubuntu, KUbuntu, EUbuntu, and the server edition. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:32:08 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: In article , yyyc186 writes: >On Jan 21, 7:16 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >> >> If that plan works against Redhat then why wouldn't it work against any Linux >> distro including Ubantu. If Redhat falls to Oracle then that is the end of >> Linux distributions from anyone other than big companies like Oracle. >> >> >Right now Ubuntu distro is just an organization of mostly unpaid >people. It is not a corporation with stock and executives with stock >options (to my knowledge). If someone is willing to live in a cave >and eat what they find, it is pretty difficult to beat them with the >"I work cheaper than you" strategy. So all of these corporations who are adopting Ubuntu have noone to goto for a support contract ? The Ubuntu developers don't have an organisation setup to provide telephone support etc ? Sorry without that sort of support structure in place lots of corporations aren't going to touch Ubuntu. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:16:29 -0500 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <4794e19c$0$6363$607ed4bc@cv.net> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >> >> In article <357aec0b-4cb3-4f73-922f-5364457ef352@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, yyyc186 writes: >>> On Jan 19, 10:10 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >>>> yyyc186 wrote: >>>>> I'm not really interested in looking at anything MS has to say. What >>>>> they produce is neither technology nor business quality software. >>>>> Like the rest of the world, I'm moving to Ubuntu. >>>> Ubuntu is competing for the same customers as Windows. >>>> >>>> Have you considered something more "different": Centos, >>>> Debian, Gentoo or maybe FreeBSD ? >>>> >>>> Arne >>> I've looked at many. Ubuntu is the next wave. It has a sever edition > > What is a sever edition? Once you buy and install it, it makes you want > to slash your wrists out of sheer frustration? Sounds to me just like a > Micro$oft product a la Weendoze. :) > Linux desktops and servers were customized (optimized?) for the purpose but can be used either way and the missing applications can be added. When MS has server and desktop editions, they intend server and desktop use, licensed accordingly. One isn't supposed to be upgradeable to the other. With windows NT, microsoft even claimied they were two completely different systems until someone showed that the main difference, besides the installed applications, were only in the registry settings. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:21:24 -0500 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <4794e2c3$0$6354$607ed4bc@cv.net> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article , yyyc186 writes: >> On Jan 21, 7:16 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> >>> If that plan works against Redhat then why wouldn't it work against any Linux >>> distro including Ubantu. If Redhat falls to Oracle then that is the end of >>> Linux distributions from anyone other than big companies like Oracle. >>> >>> >> Right now Ubuntu distro is just an organization of mostly unpaid >> people. It is not a corporation with stock and executives with stock >> options (to my knowledge). If someone is willing to live in a cave >> and eat what they find, it is pretty difficult to beat them with the >> "I work cheaper than you" strategy. > So all of these corporations who are adopting Ubuntu have noone to goto for > a support contract ? The Ubuntu developers don't have an organisation setup to > provide telephone support etc ? > Sorry without that sort of support structure in place lots of corporations > aren't going to touch Ubuntu. > > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > That is not correct, ubuntu is just another linux distribution customized for some purpose. The differences are not so great that any linux support organization wouldn't be able to perform maintenance. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:12:40 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Message-ID: In article , "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" writes: >{...snip...} >I tried to send you mail but apparently you have yahoo.com blacklisted >(Not that I blame you), but perhaps you could whitelist my address? >johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com > >Let me know Sorry about that. The SPAM since the holidays had really increased too. More and more ads for viagra and cialis, and making ones penis larger. They should try a focused marketing approach as I have no need for any of these products! ;) There have been a large number of hot babes who want to be my friend sending me emails from MyWaste.com too. I'd doubt they're that hot. I wonder how many more I'd get if I HAD a MyWaste.com account! Anyway, your addy is on the whitelist. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 06:48:32 -0800 (PST) From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Message-ID: <8a93f909-269a-4aeb-a153-fc07c8277119@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Jan 21, 8:12 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , "johnhreinha...@yahoo.com" writes: > > >{...snip...} > >I tried to send you mail but apparently you have yahoo.com blacklisted > >(Not that I blame you), but perhaps you could whitelist my address? > >johnhreinha...@yahoo.com > > >Let me know > > Sorry about that. The SPAM since the holidays had really increased too. > More and more ads for viagra and cialis, and making ones penis larger. > They should try a focused marketing approach as I have no need for any > of these products! ;) There have been a large number of hot babes who > want to be my friend sending me emails from MyWaste.com too. I'd doubt > they're that hot. I wonder how many more I'd get if I HAD a MyWaste.com > account! > > Anyway, your addy is on the whitelist. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html I sent it and didn't get a bounce back so it should be in your InBox somewhere. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 08:41:10 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Looking for tape copy program Message-ID: In article <67bfb8f9-ea7f-4f5e-9312-265e78aa99e4@i3g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" writes: > Hello > A few years back, I had a tape program that would allow me to do a > tape to tape copy. The program would allow me to copy from 1 format to > another (ie dlt to dat etc). I searched thru the freeware software > archives and thru some of the sig tapes libraries, but cannot find the > program. Does anybody recall the program? > tks > phil I would track down and use TCOPY, since it understands BACKUP's non-standard error handling. But if it's not a BACKUP saveset originally written directly to tape without the /exchange quialifer, then COPY will do. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:09:35 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: Re: Marketing of operating sytems Message-ID: <4ca5b742-2b04-4b64-91c2-90572a64ca80@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On Jan 15, 3:26=A0am, JF Mezei wrote: > Apple is holding a little shingding in San Francisco this week. Steve > Job's keynote address should be available for viewing later this > afternoon athttp://www.apple.com. He is bound to make a great sales > pitch for our favourite operating system (OS-X :-) > > Wasn't there a time when DECUS events were larger than Macworld ? > > Imagine if VMS had been allowed to be marketed, andSuewould have made > similar keynote adresses in front of thousands =A0with worldwide media > reporting on it ? I am flattered JF, to tell the truth I am in awe of Steve Jobs. sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:17:14 +0100 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Mike Magee to leave the INQUIRER Message-ID: Neil Rieck schrieb: > > Many Compaq/HP employees hated this site but it seemed to me that most > of their leaked news items were true about 90% of the time So does that mean Compaq/HP employees hated to hear the truth ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 04:04:24 -0800 (PST) From: auction Subject: SAP Business Solutions Message-ID: <6d20d657-c9bf-434d-8968-4bcce90a573c@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> AJ Square focuses on a core set of SAP-related business solutions, following proven methodologies and best practices. AJ Square can help your organization prepare for change by helping you understand the implications of how you conduct business within industry, competitive, and trade contexts. Through collaboration, analysis, and knowledge of the interrelationships of people, processes, and technology, we can help you identify and achieve your organization's operational, relational, competitive, and financial goals. Sources: http://www.ajsquare.com/services/index_sap.php?co=sap ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 09:05:50 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: This NG seems unusually quiet... Message-ID: <96MPaHvDO0fJ@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <9095cd13-d33e-4a63-8291-a3b71e045115@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Neil Rieck writes: > Compared to this time last year, this NG seems unusually quiet. Is > something going on the the OpenVMS world that I don't know about? Have > all the OpenVMS developers already jumped to other platforms? Many > previous contributors seem missing in action. We've all added enough entries to our killfiles to improve the signal-to-noise ratio. The signal level seems to be about the same. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.042 ************************