INFO-VAX Fri, 25 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 49 Contents: Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Looking for ICQ server for the VMS Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Re: NFS and version numbers Re: NFS and version numbers Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Re: Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:07:21 GMT From: VMS is Virus Free Subject: Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:25:51 -0800 (PST), Volker Halle wrote: >If you run ANAL/OBJ on the extracted object file for >AMAC_FLT_DATA.MAR, you will see, that this string results from a >debugger information record, so this module seems to have been >complied with /DEBUG - there is nothing wrong with that ! > >6. DEBUGGER INFORMATION (EOBJ$C_EDBG), 77 bytes > > 1) ETIR$C_STO_IMM (61, %X'3D') > Store Immediate, 65 bytes: > 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 01234567 > ------------------------ -------- > 9B 00 3B 10 00 9B 00 04| 0000 |.....;..| > FD 7C 00 01 00 36 01 00| 0008 |..6...|ý| > 00 02 00 A1 88 5F 3C 79| 0010 |y<_.¡...| > 31 24 22 02 00 56 00 00| 0018 |..V.."$1| > 31 30 33 32 41 47 44 24| 0020 |$DGA2301| > 42 49 4C 53 59 53 5B 3A| 0028 |:[SYSLIB| > 45 44 5F 48 43 52 41 5D| 0030 |]ARCH_DE| > 31 3B 52 41 4D 2E 53 46| 0038 |FS.MAR;1| > 00| 0040 |. | > >You will further need to provide more evidence on what's failing in >your programs. > >Volker. Volker, The problem is that, after we applied this patch, we did our weekly MMS recompile, relink, and rebuild the world thing. The module that is having the problem in a Fortran program that reads floating point numbers in ASCII from a text file and converts them to real internal format floating point numbers. We did a couple of things to check: 1) We extracted the AMAC_FLT_DATA.MAR file out of STARLET, did the ANAL/OBJ on it and it shows as clean. 2) We went back to an old V7.3-nothing system, extracted this same file, did the DUMP/ASCII and it has the same modules within the .MAR file BUT it does not have the leading $1$DGA2301:[STARLETOLB.SRC] as part of the module name. Odd. 3) We repeated 2) on a VMS V8.3 system. Same module extracted, ANAL/OBJ shows clean, DUMP/ASCII shows same modules BUT with all the leading location stuff. It appears to us that this module was compiled with a /DEBUG when HP built the V14 patch kit. We do not have any disks with that physical name nor have we ever had a DGAnn: device ever. That it was compiled with debug and inserted into the patch kit should not have made any difference. We are checking to make sure the programmer with the issue did not do a compile outside of MMS. As recall, MMS works by looking at the dates of the source and object modules then only recompiles the source module if its date is newer than its object file. If the programmer did a compile by hand, he could have forgotten a switch or two, or perhaps didn't specify the "right" style of floating point number representation. This sure feels like a "I only change one comment line" kind of thing. If the AMAC_FLT_DATA.MAR file in STARLET was bad, there would have been many other repercussions. Then again, I have seen programs work or not work when compiled with or without debug. The search continues... ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 2008 13:13:02 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Message-ID: In article <32lhp31mmqpgkcpov90kbsie88ahip02pb@4ax.com>, VMS is Virus Free writes: > On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:51:09 -0800 (PST), Volker Halle > wrote: > >>Where does this string show up ? >> >>$1$DGA2301:[STARLETOLB.SRC]AMAC_FLT_DATA.MAR;1 >> >>Volker. > > When the program that worked before didn't work after the relink, one > of our developers downloaded a utility that would dump all the > symbols, modules and such out of the debugger's memory. This is were > the $1$DGA2301 reference came from. > I'd be much more interested in what a /map/full from the linker said, than what random strings are in the .EXE file. The above may have nothing whatsoever to do with any problem you're having. How about posting the differences in the program's behaviour? ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 2008 13:15:03 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Message-ID: In article , VMS is Virus Free writes: > > Oddity #2 is that STARLET.OLB now has the above file as one of its > modules. A .MAR source file in an object library? That just doesn't > seem right. Just because the name is .MAR doesn't mean it's a source file. It's not hard to get just about any string you want into a module name. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:21:25 GMT From: VMS is Virus Free Subject: Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:39:10 -0800 (PST), Volker Halle wrote: >Please be careful. More than this one module has been replaced in >STARLET.OLB by the VMS732_STARLETOLB-V0100 patch, i.e. most likely all >modules which are named AMAC* ! > Warning well understood. Swapping a module out of something as important as STARLET.OLB would only be a last resort kind of thing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:22:44 GMT From: VMS is Virus Free Subject: Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Message-ID: On 24 Jan 2008 13:15:03 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: >In article , VMS is Virus Free writes: >> >> Oddity #2 is that STARLET.OLB now has the above file as one of its >> modules. A .MAR source file in an object library? That just doesn't >> seem right. > > Just because the name is .MAR doesn't mean it's a source file. > It's not hard to get just about any string you want into a module > name. It just seems strange to see a .MAR in an object library. Seems that would properly belong in a .TLB. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:45:53 GMT From: VMS is Virus Free Subject: Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:54:39 GMT, VMS is Virus Free wrote: > >Any idea of what's going on? Found the issue. Programmer indeed had not change his program nor had he change the data file it was reading. BUT there was this little matter of a logical name pointing to an old version of the data file that he didn't bother to mention to us. There are days that I just LOVE technology as a job. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:12:40 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Message-ID: <47994598.4642AD80@spam.comcast.net> VMS is Virus Free wrote: > > We applied the VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 this past weekend. It has caused > some problems among our developers trying to do their links: the .EXE > produced by the LINK includes a bunch of files that the old .EXE did > not have. For example: > > $1$DGA2301:[STARLETOLB.SRC]AMAC_FLT_DATA.MAR;1 > > We do not have a $1$DGA2301 device on any of our systems. That was > oddity #1. > > Oddity #2 is that STARLET.OLB now has the above file as one of its > modules. A .MAR source file in an object library? That just doesn't > seem right. Good question. What is a .MAR (source, text) file doing inside a .OLB (Object module LiBrary)? (...or, why is an object module named after its source file, including the extension!!??) Looks like some build procedure at OVMS-Engr is royally hosed! David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 07:33:57 +0100 From: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> Subject: Re: .MAR file in STARLET.OLB after VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 Message-ID: <479982d5$0$85784$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> To clear things up: it's not a macro file but an object file with an unusual name. Comments from the source file: This module defines global storage used by the macros that expand VAX floating point instructions. This code is really obsolete, but must remain for layered products that assemble on an old system but link on a new one. Fwiw, Jur. David J Dachtera wrote: > VMS is Virus Free wrote: >> We applied the VMS732_UPDATE V14.0 this past weekend. It has caused >> some problems among our developers trying to do their links: the .EXE >> produced by the LINK includes a bunch of files that the old .EXE did >> not have. For example: >> >> $1$DGA2301:[STARLETOLB.SRC]AMAC_FLT_DATA.MAR;1 >> >> We do not have a $1$DGA2301 device on any of our systems. That was >> oddity #1. >> >> Oddity #2 is that STARLET.OLB now has the above file as one of its >> modules. A .MAR source file in an object library? That just doesn't >> seem right. > > Good question. What is a .MAR (source, text) file doing inside a .OLB > (Object module LiBrary)? (...or, why is an object module named after its > source file, including the extension!!??) > > Looks like some build procedure at OVMS-Engr is royally hosed! > > David J Dachtera > DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 2008 21:11:02 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vsd76F1nuub6U1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <5vkkd3F1lpt8bU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> >> What was it that Bob Koehler said? "If it walks like a duck and quacks >> like a duck." > > If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck, I will not expect > it to ship under the name FreeVMS. Thank you. We have found at least one thing we can agree on!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:06:08 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article <4797EE63.4A10CF34@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > > > In article , JKB > > writes: > > > > > Today, FreeVMS is _only_ a VMS clone. > > > > How long has the project been going on? What has it got to offer? Does > > anyone outside the project take it seriously? > > > > > But it is the only chance to > > > keep VMS alive for a long time. > > > > I'm not a lawyer, but presumably if it becomes viable HP can and will > > take legal action against it. > > I rather doubt that. > > HP will not spend a cent or lift a finger to keep VMS alive. > > I see no reason to believe they would pursue litigation to defend > something they do not want. Did VMS used to be much more popular and well known? Yes. Does HP now completely neglect VMS? No. It still generates a lot of revenue, most of that from wealthy customers with whom there is regular contact. I can understand how someone not in this world would get the impression that VMS is now completely dead. Sort of like someone thinking that Jethro Tull, Uriah Heep, The Rolling Stones etc no longer record or perform because they are no longer featured on the covers of magazines aimed at your average teen. (Apologies to Billy Joel's "It's still rock and roll to me" here, reminding me of the filk which states, to the same tune, "your best bet's a full image then an incremental".) > I'd tend to believe that a "free" VMS would relieve them of the burden > of maintaining it at some point in the future, when the remaining > community would embrace the "free" version in leiu of the "real thing" > so they could drop it once and for all and be done with it. > > Sort of gives one pause to consider that HP might help/encourage FreeVMS > just to finally get the "albatross" off their neck, eh? ;-) This assumes they see it as a burden. I think it is obvious that no large corporation has any qualms at all about dropping something completely and suddenly if they see it as a burden. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:02:37 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <47993640$0$30971$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > Did VMS used to be much more popular and well known? Yes. Does HP now > completely neglect VMS? No. It still generates a lot of revenue, most > of that from wealthy customers with whom there is regular contact. Have you heard that HP last summer told Cerner it was OK to stop developing the one big remaining VMS cash cow (the hospital management software) ? In the days of Digital and Compaq, the profits generated by VMS were a significant percentage of total profits. In both cases, the CEOs had to review their plans to kill VMS when they were made to realise that killing VMS would remove the profits that were necessary to fund their pet projects and inefficient operations. In the case of HP, VMS is peanuts compared to the total profits. Selling coloured water in expensive plastic containers is far mroe lucrative. Losing VMS profits wouldn't be noticed by Wall Street and Wall Street doesn't measure HP by the success of VMS. VMS is most certaintly not a key product in HP's portfolio. I it were, it would be advertised and VMS wouldn't have lost more employees than other areas of HP. > This assumes they see it as a burden. I think it is obvious that no > large corporation has any qualms at all about dropping something > completely and suddenly if they see it as a burden. VMS won't be "dropped completely and suddently". HP will honour its commitment to support it. And they'll keep at last one VMS enginer employed so they can still claim VMS is being developped. HP can still continue to send messages that VMS customers should consider moving to another platform, they can still give their blessing to ISVs to abandon VMS. That will simply get customers to move from VMS without blaming HP directly. Remember that IA64's life is also not assured. And it seems pretty clear that HP will not port VMS beyond IA64. So starting migrations now will make the demise of IA64 easier to handle when it comes in a year or two. And remember Alpha. On June 24 2001, Compaq were still extoling the vertues of Alpha and how that IA64 thing would never be able to match Alpha and was a flawed approach to architecture design etc etc. So you can expect to see VMS management continue to claim that VMS has a great future ahead, that it is still actively developped etc right until the minute before HP announces the end of the line for VMS. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 2008 21:17:39 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <5vsdjjF1nuub6U2@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <5vkl38F1lpt8bU4@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> In article <4794F5BB.80707@comcast.net>, >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > >>> >>> ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the >>> impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very >>> least, one application at a time!! >> >> Who told you that rule? Kerry? You were misinformed. > > Our MS guru says he got it from MicroSoft. Well, I just looked at my Sharepoint documentation and they have it running IIS, Sharepoint and MSSql all on the same box. Looks like MicroSoft doesn't agree. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 2008 21:18:35 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <5vsdlbF1nuub6U3@mid.individual.net> In article <4798a532$0$11570$607ed4bc@cv.net>, sol gongola writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article <5vkl38F1lpt8bU4@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> In article <4794F5BB.80707@comcast.net>, >>> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> >>>> ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the >>>> impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very >>>> least, one application at a time!! >>> >>> Who told you that rule? Kerry? You were misinformed. >> >> Our MS guru says he got it from MicroSoft. >> > > The rule was that if each machine had only one application running > then you only lost one application when the machine went down :) I have Windows servers that only go down when I tell them to. Go figure. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 2008 21:21:44 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <5vsdr8F1nuub6U4@mid.individual.net> In article , yyyc186 writes: > On Jan 21, 4:36 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> > ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the >> > impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very >> > least, one application at a time!! >> >> Who told you that rule? Kerry? You were misinformed. >> > That is the rule unless you want large publicly visible outages. Properly set up Windows boxes work just as well as any other servers. I don't even remember the last time I had a Windows Server crash. Come to think of it, my desktops don't either. Maybe it has more to do with how they are set up then the OS itself. Oh, and I should probably mention that I don't even like Windows and so spend as little time messing with it as possible and still I can set them up to be secure and stable. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:32:34 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <47991202.3000203@comcast.net> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > >>In article <5vkl38F1lpt8bU4@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >>>In article <4794F5BB.80707@comcast.net>, >>> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> >>>>ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the >>>>impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very >>>>least, one application at a time!! >>> >>> >>>Who told you that rule? Kerry? You were misinformed. >> >> Our MS guru says he got it from MicroSoft. > > > Well, I just looked at my Sharepoint documentation and they have it > running IIS, Sharepoint and MSSql all on the same box. Looks like > MicroSoft doesn't agree. > > bill > > I think it might make a big difference WHEN this "rule" was promulgated. Windows was not always the fine O/S we know today (W/XP not Vista). ;-) I encountered it ca. 1994 at which point it made a great deal of sense. Windows 3.1 was current and W/95 and W/NT were waiting in the wings. These were the days when the help desk wouldn't even talk to you if you couldn't say that you just now rebooted your system! ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 2008 23:26:34 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <5vsl5aF1o0n7dU1@mid.individual.net> In article <47991202.3000203@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article , >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> >>>In article <5vkl38F1lpt8bU4@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> >>>>In article <4794F5BB.80707@comcast.net>, >>>> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>> >>>>>ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the >>>>>impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very >>>>>least, one application at a time!! >>>> >>>> >>>>Who told you that rule? Kerry? You were misinformed. >>> >>> Our MS guru says he got it from MicroSoft. >> >> >> Well, I just looked at my Sharepoint documentation and they have it >> running IIS, Sharepoint and MSSql all on the same box. Looks like >> MicroSoft doesn't agree. >> >> bill >> >> > > I think it might make a big difference WHEN this "rule" was promulgated. > Windows was not always the fine O/S we know today (W/XP not Vista). ;-) > I encountered it ca. 1994 at which point it made a great deal of sense. > Windows 3.1 was current and W/95 and W/NT were waiting in the wings. > These were the days when the help desk wouldn't even talk to you if you > couldn't say that you just now rebooted your system! Yeah, well Win 3.1 and 98 were never server OSes in the first place. But then, considering how out of touch so many people here seem to be regarding Unix and everything else not VMS, no surprise they base their understanding of Windows on something like that. But then, look how out of touch with the IT world of today VMS is..... bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:41:30 -0800 (PST) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: On Jan 24, 3:21 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > Properly set up Windows boxes work just as well as any other servers. > I don't even remember the last time I had a Windows Server crash. > Come to think of it, my desktops don't either. Maybe it has more to > do with how they are set up then the OS itself. > > Oh, and I should probably mention that I don't even like Windows and > so spend as little time messing with it as possible and still I can > set them up to be secure and stable. > We have distinctly different experiences then. At my client sites not a day goes by where at least 5 of them don't need a reboot. Thankfully I have nothing to do with those hokey little toys. They've even had people from MS on site hitting the re-set buttons. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:49:15 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <47994e2b$0$90266$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > I think it might make a big difference WHEN this "rule" was promulgated. > Windows was not always the fine O/S we know today (W/XP not Vista). ;-) > I encountered it ca. 1994 at which point it made a great deal of sense. > Windows 3.1 was current and W/95 and W/NT were waiting in the wings. Win 3.1 + WfW 3.11 + WinNT 3.1 + WinNT 3.51 out with Win95 + WinNT 4.0 waiting I presume. (and only the NT versions were servers) Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:51:59 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <47994ecf$0$90266$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> In article <5vkl38F1lpt8bU4@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> In article <4794F5BB.80707@comcast.net>, >>> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>>> ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the >>>> impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very >>>> least, one application at a time!! >>> >>> Who told you that rule? Kerry? You were misinformed. >> Our MS guru says he got it from MicroSoft. > > Well, I just looked at my Sharepoint documentation and they have it > running IIS, Sharepoint and MSSql all on the same box. Looks like > MicroSoft doesn't agree. SharePoint run in IIS, so they have to be on the same box. SQLServer can be deployed on the same box or on another box depending on the sites preferences. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:55:32 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <47994fa6$0$90266$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> yyyc186 wrote: > On Jan 21, 4:36 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >>> ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the >>> impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very >>> least, one application at a time!! >> Who told you that rule? Kerry? You were misinformed. >> > That is the rule unless you want large publicly visible outages. Lots of Windows servers run multiple apps. Maybe the majority of them. There are millions of small companies out there using WinSBS (with either Exchange+IIS eller Exhange+IIS+SQLServer+ISA). Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:38:42 +0300 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" Subject: Looking for ICQ server for the VMS Message-ID: <7B70B18FA7BDD261626356225ECEE146@NNTP.DeltaTel.RU> Hello All! Is there any pointers ? TIA. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 2008 23:39:09 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Message-ID: <5vslstF1o0n7dU3@mid.individual.net> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <5vrcbtF1nbrfhU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> >>In article <47981be3$0$507$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, >> JF Mezei writes: >>> Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>> >>>> There are only two possible causes of such violations: >>>> >>>> 1. The page author did not try to validate the pages. >>>> 2. When the pages did not validate the page author did not care. >>> >>> >>> 3. The author thinks his MS fancy HTML producing software cannot >>> make mistakes and that anything it generates will be standards >>> compliant. (so never any need to validate it againsts the real standards( >> >>If it works with IE why care about compliance to some standard you >>don't even know about? Just what world do you people live in? It's >>not like this is new news. > > Bill, > > It's not news to me. I realize that M$IE is ubiquitous but it is losing > its saturation to other browsers such as Firefox because it is NOT keep- > ing up with network standards or _completely_ misinterpreting standards > (whether this is intentional or accidental is uncertain). You know, I keep hearing how MS is loosing this or that to other offerings, but I sure don't see any of it in the real world. I am afraid it is all just wishful thinking, which I am sure gives old Bill a good laugh as he continues to cash those dividend checks. > In support of the later argument, I submit: > > I spent many days recently trying to understand what M$ did in IE when it > implemented MD5 Digest authentication. I spent most of my holiday trying > to understand how M$ incorrectly implemented MD5 Digest. Finally, on New > Years day, I understood what M$ didn't do properly. I was able to modify > my code to work with it. My code now authenticates with Safari, Firefox, > Opera, Camino, and yes, M$IE. Oh, it's possible to support all differnt kinds of browsers and you can even identify them so that you can write specific code for each variant. But how many people are actually doing it? Just look at all the complaints we see in this newsgroup alone about people who don't use IE not being able to access major commercial websites. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:11:39 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Message-ID: In article <5vslstF1o0n7dU3@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >In article , > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> In article <5vrcbtF1nbrfhU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> >>> >>>In article <47981be3$0$507$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, >>> JF Mezei writes: >>>> Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>>> >>>>> There are only two possible causes of such violations: >>>>> >>>>> 1. The page author did not try to validate the pages. >>>>> 2. When the pages did not validate the page author did not care. >>>> >>>> >>>> 3. The author thinks his MS fancy HTML producing software cannot >>>> make mistakes and that anything it generates will be standards >>>> compliant. (so never any need to validate it againsts the real standards( >>> >>>If it works with IE why care about compliance to some standard you >>>don't even know about? Just what world do you people live in? It's >>>not like this is new news. >> >> Bill, >> >> It's not news to me. I realize that M$IE is ubiquitous but it is losing >> its saturation to other browsers such as Firefox because it is NOT keep- >> ing up with network standards or _completely_ misinterpreting standards >> (whether this is intentional or accidental is uncertain). > >You know, I keep hearing how MS is loosing this or that to other >offerings, but I sure don't see any of it in the real world. I >am afraid it is all just wishful thinking, which I am sure gives >old Bill a good laugh as he continues to cash those dividend checks. You're not in the real world; you're in the university environment. I've heard it from most of the listeners at an internet radio station I've been hanging about. They've tossed out their M$IE in favor of Firefox and they have also tossed out M$'s offering for listening to streaming radio in lieu of Apple's itunes on M$ too. I have been in numerous corporate environment that have mandated Firefox on their PeeCee desktops. They are fed up with all of the problems and lack of standards compliance of M$IE. If you're content to be the placid sheep, go get into the queue. The rest are of us are out there trying to avoid the blade. >> In support of the later argument, I submit: >> >> I spent many days recently trying to understand what M$ did in IE when it >> implemented MD5 Digest authentication. I spent most of my holiday trying >> to understand how M$ incorrectly implemented MD5 Digest. Finally, on New >> Years day, I understood what M$ didn't do properly. I was able to modify >> my code to work with it. My code now authenticates with Safari, Firefox, >> Opera, Camino, and yes, M$IE. > >Oh, it's possible to support all differnt kinds of browsers and you can >even identify them so that you can write specific code for each variant. I've had to WRITE NO specific code for any browser OTHER THAN M$IE. I've been modifying a lot of web site code lately too. Trust me, I have been reading and googling for all of the M$ IE bugs and gotchas. I've even put together a very nice new web feature that passes all of the W3C checks but I can't put it out because M$IE SUCKS. BTW, most web site code critics do not advocate writing for specific browsers. >But how many people are actually doing it? Just look at all the complaints >we see in this newsgroup alone about people who don't use IE not being >able to access major commercial websites. Not being able to stick my round peg into the Micro$oft square hole is no reason for me to whittle my round peg down to a 4 sided plank. These com- merial sites aren't standard compliant unless the standard is M$. Shoving M$IE up my arse isn't going to fix these web sites. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 2008 01:43:16 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: NFS and version numbers Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Due to a rare alignement of the stars relative to the direction of the > wind and the happiness level of the neighbour's dog, I found myself with > a mounted NFS drive on my mac. I can now use the finder on the Mac to > display files on my VMS SYS$LOGIN. I have no idea whether this is > repeatable or not. I haven't dared reboot my Mac :-) Have you determined if this amazing state is repeatable, and more importantly how others can replicate it? Zane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:13:57 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: NFS and version numbers Message-ID: <47996322$0$4320$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Have you determined if this amazing state is repeatable, and more > importantly how others can replicate it? It is repeatable. Here is an example: (10.0.0.20 / brakes is the mac client) TCPIP> show map Dynamic Filesystem Map Pathname Logical File System /disk2 $11$DQB0: TCPIP> show export File System Host name /disk2/users/jfmezei BRAKES, 10.0.0.20 Options: Purge Typeless Name_cvt /disk2/www_main 10.0.0.20, BRAKES Options: Purge Typeless Still need to do some experimenting with regards to purging and name conversion. TCPIP> show proxy VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name JFMEZEI OND 501 501 BRAKES SYSTEM OND 0 0 BRAKES Since the mount is done by "root" on the MAC, I figured I needed a proxy for it. brakes:~ JFMEZEI$ nidump -r /mounts . { "name" = ( "mounts" ); CHILDREN = ( { "name" = ( "10.0.0.11:/disk2/users/jfmezei" ); "dir" = ( "/disk2/jfmezei" ); "opts" = ( "resvport" ); "type" = ( "nfs" ); }, { "type" = ( "nfs" ); "opt" = ( "resvport" ); "dir" = ( "/disk2/www_main" ); "name" = ( "10.0.0.11:/disk2/www_main" ); } ) } (I used the Netinfo GUI to set those up). I also have a /disk2/jfmezei and /disk2/www_main directories setup on the mac to act as placeholders for the mount point. When you boot, they don't get mounted until you open the "disk2" folder at which point, both mount points get mounted, the icons change into network mounts, and "jfmezei" as well as "www_main" also appear on the desktop. I still have some problems with some text documents. Not had time to fully investigate. First couple of blocks get properly translated into streamlf, but the remainder is sent "raw" to the mac (aka: variable length records with 2 binary bytes followed by the record and the mac sees it as a blob of data). I have not done much writing from the mac to the VMS side though. This is all with 10.4 (Tiger) on the mac, 8.3 with tcpip 5.6 on VMS . Over the life of OS-X, it appears that the options have changed in "netinfo") and with 10.5 (Leopard, netinfo is gone, so I am no sure how those get defined. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:56:25 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Message-ID: In article <4797141b$0$4360$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > My guess is that since VMS is in the same boat as OS/2 (nearlty > abandonned proprietary OS), perhaps we should push for individual > products being open sourced. I seriously doubt that open-sourcing VMS, or parts of it, will improve the situation for anyone, except those who want the code for their own purposes. The success of open-source stuff elsewhere, rightly or wrongly, is driven by anti-commercialism. The operating system which even has the dollar sign as the default prompt character is NOT something which anti-commercial types will be interested in. Yes, some stuff is not being developed much anymore. But it would take even MORE effort to get stuff which has been changed by an open-source community to get integrated into, and tested with, VMS. Leaving it out and letting the user use it if he wants to would take away one of the big advantages of VMS. HP still makes money from VMS, lots of it. Why should they open-source it? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:30:30 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Message-ID: <47992006$0$15735$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > Yes, some stuff is not being developed much anymore. But it would take > even MORE effort to get stuff which has been changed by an open-source > community to get integrated into, and tested with, VMS. Since VMS is no longer developped in many of its areas, there is no expectation that any open sourced portions would see the improvemenst back to VMS. But they would benefit the rest of the world instead of being abandonned, burried and forgotten. Since DECterm is a "best of class" terminal emulator, far better thn Xterm, it would be a shame to see it just forgotten and burried. > Leaving it out > and letting the user use it if he wants to would take away one of the > big advantages of VMS. Allowing the world to benefit from DECterm doesn't affect VMS' remaining technological advantages. And since HP is not interested in the long term success and development of VMS, allowing as many parts of VMS to go out to the rest of the world would at least allow parts of VMS/Digital to survive after HP kills it. > HP still makes money from VMS, lots of it. Why should they open-source > it? Because DECterm and TPU are parts of VMS that HP is not interested in. HP clearly doesn't see any VMS technologies as advantages. It dumped clusteing in favour of Veritas for HP-UX, and it most certaintaly isn't going to port DECterm or TPU to HP-UX. Both products have been made "mature" a very long time ago. They are in the same gang as FMS and so many other utilities. To HP, donating DECterm and TPU to the world community would not deprive HP of any code/technology that HP values. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:12:26 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Message-ID: <_Hamj.7$YC1.6@newsfe09.lga> In article , Fred Bach writes: > > >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article , Fred Bach writes: >>> {...snip...} >>> Here's one of those stupid but necessary questions - did you restart >>> everything with the AutoPlace set to False? Blow away the X sessions >>> and all Decterms and completely start again. >> >> $ @SYS$STARTUP:DECW$STARTUP RESTART >> >> >>> Yes, I would look through *every* DECW$*.DAT resource file for any >>> parameter that has "place" or "locat" in it. Also, see if you can >>> find out what the ScreenMode resource does. I recall that we also >>> had trouble with that one until I played around (we have it set to >>> off now), but I don't have an explanatory URL on it at the moment. >>> And, as I recall, the window gravity resource had some effect. >>> (in DECW$TERMINAL_DEFAULT.DAT) DECW$TERMINAL.winGravity: 1 >> >> Nothing about gravity in my DECW$TERMINAL_DEFAULT.DAT. >> >> >>> But here is another thought - I don't recall what platform you are >>> displaying your X DecTerms on, but with mine I have the capability >>> of running a window manager on one of the Alpha Servers (running >>> OpenVMS 8.2) or on one of the Itaniums, OR I can run the Window >>> Manager on the Windows 2000-Pro PC under Xwin-32. Many people here >>> choose to use the PC window manager but I don't - so that several >>> different session managers can have all their own window colours >>> for their X DecTerms for easy recognition of what server and what >>> account I am using at the time. Quite often I can have 5 session >>> managers running in 5 different accounts on several different VMS >>> servers. I doubt that changing the DECW$MWM.DAT file would have >>> any effect if you don't run the window manager on a VMS machine. >> >> I can assure you it is NOT a Weendoze box. I'm working on my Alpha. >> >> >>> Also, it is possible to redefine the logical that points to the >>> directory that contains the DECW$*.DAT resource files to use. Now >>> quite often they are in SYS$LOGIN, but not always - and so there >>> could be more than one directory to look in. >>> >>> Just tryin' to help. I remember how frustrated we were here when >>> we had this same problem. >> >> I appreciate it. You've given me a glimmer of hope that it is, at >> least, doable. The problem now is the find the proper cauldron to >> recite the secret incantation over to make the magic work. > > What if I send you all my DECW$*.DAT files? If they work, then > you can check for differences from yours, and check things out one > at a time ? > > . fred . Sounds great. I'd love to get to the bottom of this. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:47:31 -0800 From: Fred Bach Subject: Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , Fred Bach writes: >> {...snip...} >> Here's one of those stupid but necessary questions - did you restart >> everything with the AutoPlace set to False? Blow away the X sessions >> and all Decterms and completely start again. > > $ @SYS$STARTUP:DECW$STARTUP RESTART > > >> Yes, I would look through *every* DECW$*.DAT resource file for any >> parameter that has "place" or "locat" in it. Also, see if you can >> find out what the ScreenMode resource does. I recall that we also >> had trouble with that one until I played around (we have it set to >> off now), but I don't have an explanatory URL on it at the moment. >> And, as I recall, the window gravity resource had some effect. >> (in DECW$TERMINAL_DEFAULT.DAT) DECW$TERMINAL.winGravity: 1 > > Nothing about gravity in my DECW$TERMINAL_DEFAULT.DAT. > > >> But here is another thought - I don't recall what platform you are >> displaying your X DecTerms on, but with mine I have the capability >> of running a window manager on one of the Alpha Servers (running >> OpenVMS 8.2) or on one of the Itaniums, OR I can run the Window >> Manager on the Windows 2000-Pro PC under Xwin-32. Many people here >> choose to use the PC window manager but I don't - so that several >> different session managers can have all their own window colours >> for their X DecTerms for easy recognition of what server and what >> account I am using at the time. Quite often I can have 5 session >> managers running in 5 different accounts on several different VMS >> servers. I doubt that changing the DECW$MWM.DAT file would have >> any effect if you don't run the window manager on a VMS machine. > > I can assure you it is NOT a Weendoze box. I'm working on my Alpha. > > >> Also, it is possible to redefine the logical that points to the >> directory that contains the DECW$*.DAT resource files to use. Now >> quite often they are in SYS$LOGIN, but not always - and so there >> could be more than one directory to look in. >> >> Just tryin' to help. I remember how frustrated we were here when >> we had this same problem. > > I appreciate it. You've given me a glimmer of hope that it is, at > least, doable. The problem now is the find the proper cauldron to > recite the secret incantation over to make the magic work. What if I send you all my DECW$*.DAT files? If they work, then you can check for differences from yours, and check things out one at a time ? . fred . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:42:14 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies Message-ID: <7a855c8f-63ce-44db-9efa-96fe073a4b17@c23g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Jan 17, 1:48=A0pm, yyyc186 wrote: > Here is what the Kirkus reviewer had to say. =A0I guess this explains > why there were no OpenVMS books in their review database. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 This h= efty tome provides brief and > rambling introductions to programming on OpenVMS in a number of > languages. =A0In overall structure, this guide to programming on an > OpenVMS platform is logically laid out. An introduction to OpenVMS is > followed by overviews of source control systems, programming to > interact with VMSMAIL, reporting services and finally, a number of > programming languages: DCL, BASIC, Fortran, COBOL, C and C++. The same > application--a simple lottery demonstration with input and out- put > datasets--is re-implemented in each of the languages. At its simplest, > this is a common and straight-forward layout for an introductory > programming manual. The individual chapters, however, are incoherent. > The introduction to VMS wanders from simple concepts such as logging > in and symbol assignment to a sweeping and unclear description of > system logicals to the complexity of ACLs. The chapter on Fortran > interrupts a discussion of Fortran fundamentals such as line numbers > and numeric operators with several paragraphs on the history of > Fortran batch processing. The COBOL chapter wonders why the owners of > the OpenVMS operating system haven't modified all programming > languages implemented on the operating system to match functionality > that text finds desirable in COBOL. =A0The chapter on C and C++ treats C+ > + as a mere functional enhancement of C, and scoffs at the object- > oriented functionality of C++. OpenVMS-specific variables, constants > and extensions are usefully listed, but the context does not allow for > clear explanation of their functionality. A clos- > ing chapter of "Ruminations and Observations" is an incoherent and > ranting distraction from what utility the technical chapters provide. > =A0 =A0 =A0A nice idea but lacks clarity. Well I've read three of your books, including this one, and found them all worth every penny of the purchase price. So maybe the reviewer is just envious of the fact that you actually followed trhough on getting something published while he never got off his ass. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/folding_at_home.html ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.049 ************************