INFO-VAX Tue, 27 May 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 294 Contents: Any news from Bootcamp ? Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? COMPUTER GEEKS AND $UCCE$$ Re: DEC Document Re: fibre channel tape drives accessed from multiple clusters Re: Galaxy on ES45 Looking for CSWS 1.2 for OpenVMS 7.2-1 in Alpha Re: ODS-5 space usage .vs. ODS-2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 17:00:49 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: <483b265c$0$20615$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> While Las Vegas brags about "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas", they also like to break that rule by showing in TV ads what actually happens in Vegas :-) :-) :-) I find it interesting that there hasn't been a peep of information about Bootcamp. In the past, there were "live" postings of various pictures of people and events. All one can find now is an article by Ian Miller on openvms.org Even if they had announced a secret plan to port VMS services to HP-UX and help developpers migrate their software to HP-UX (aka: announce the death of VMS), I would think that there would still be various unrelated news on the event itself, pictures of Sue helping everyone and still smiling etc etc. Or was the NDA so much stricter this years than in years past ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 18:24:02 -0400 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: <483B3882.5030308@comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > While Las Vegas brags about "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas", they > also like to break that rule by showing in TV ads what actually happens > in Vegas :-) :-) :-) > > I find it interesting that there hasn't been a peep of information about > Bootcamp. In the past, there were "live" postings of various pictures > of people and events. All one can find now is an article by Ian Miller > on openvms.org > > Even if they had announced a secret plan to port VMS services to HP-UX > and help developpers migrate their software to HP-UX (aka: announce the > death of VMS), I would think that there would still be various unrelated > news on the event itself, pictures of Sue helping everyone and still > smiling etc etc. > > Or was the NDA so much stricter this years than in years past ? > Check Hoff's blogs for his take on this issue... ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 2008 22:27:28 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: <483b394f$0$15195$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <483b265c$0$20615$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >While Las Vegas brags about "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas", they >also like to break that rule by showing in TV ads what actually happens >in Vegas :-) :-) :-) > >I find it interesting that there hasn't been a peep of information about > Bootcamp. In the past, there were "live" postings of various pictures >of people and events. All one can find now is an article by Ian Miller >on openvms.org I've been to tied to look at my pix. >Even if they had announced a secret plan to port VMS services to HP-UX >and help developpers migrate their software to HP-UX (aka: announce the >death of VMS), I would think that there would still be various unrelated >news on the event itself, pictures of Sue helping everyone and still >smiling etc etc. The secret news is that VMS now runs on Nokia PDAs. ;) >Or was the NDA so much stricter this years than in years past ? NDA = No, Don't Advertise? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:45:04 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: <483b4c7b$0$7264$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> bradhamilton wrote: > Check Hoff's blogs for his take on this issue... Thanks. Should have thought about going to his site. (I wonder how many nominations he got ? (and number of votes :-) It would be interesting to get off the record information on just how much information was *really* NDA and how much was easily releasable information. It is a shame that the only remaining VMS event is getting such clamped down security. ------------------------------ Date: 27 May 2008 01:03:08 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: <483b5dcc$0$15163$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <483b4c7b$0$7264$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >bradhamilton wrote: > >> Check Hoff's blogs for his take on this issue... > >Thanks. Should have thought about going to his site. (I wonder how many >nominations he got ? (and number of votes :-) > >It would be interesting to get off the record information on just how >much information was *really* NDA and how much was easily releasable >information. > >It is a shame that the only remaining VMS event is getting such clamped >down security. JF, Most people that attended are probably still in transit. Couple that with the US Memorial Day holiday and I doubt you will hear much for another few days. That said, bootcamp was comprised of many of the usual and unusual -- my- self included -- suspects. I must say that I felt quite honored by all of the people who approached me on Tuesday evening when I'd arrived to thank me for coming. It's just little ol' me but somehow it meant more to people by my being there. I can only say thanks*1E+06 to those who welcomed me. The only sad or negative news to report from bootcamp is that the draught Guinness faucet in the Granite Lounge never once poured me a proper pint; in fact, it never poured a pint period. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 04:46:58 +0200 From: "Martin Vorlaender" Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > I find it interesting that there hasn't been a peep of information about > Bootcamp. In the past, there were "live" postings of various pictures > of people and events. All one can find now is an article by Ian Miller > on openvms.org Willem Grooters has a blog on it: http://www.grootersnet.nl/bc2008/index.php cu, Martin -- One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de One OS to bring them all | http://vms.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 00:33:12 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: <0vKdnTY0vcr5EqbVnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@comcast.com> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <483b4c7b$0$7264$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >> bradhamilton wrote: >> >>> Check Hoff's blogs for his take on this issue... >> Thanks. Should have thought about going to his site. (I wonder how many >> nominations he got ? (and number of votes :-) >> >> It would be interesting to get off the record information on just how >> much information was *really* NDA and how much was easily releasable >> information. >> >> It is a shame that the only remaining VMS event is getting such clamped >> down security. > > JF, > > Most people that attended are probably still in transit. Couple that with > the US Memorial Day holiday and I doubt you will hear much for another few > days. > > That said, bootcamp was comprised of many of the usual and unusual -- my- > self included -- suspects. > > I must say that I felt quite honored by all of the people who approached > me on Tuesday evening when I'd arrived to thank me for coming. It's just > little ol' me but somehow it meant more to people by my being there. I > can only say thanks*1E+06 to those who welcomed me. > > The only sad or negative news to report from bootcamp is that the draught > Guinness faucet in the Granite Lounge never once poured me a proper pint; > in fact, it never poured a pint period. > > Oh no!! Did you get blood in your alcohol stream? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 00:54:30 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: <483b955a$0$31235$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Martin Vorlaender wrote: > Willem Grooters has a blog on it: > http://www.grootersnet.nl/bc2008/index.php Thanks. So, when did Leo Demers become VMS product manager ? (wasn't it Ann McQuaid before ?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 04:59:05 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: <00A7A304.2DC9F889@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> In article <483b955a$0$31235$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >Martin Vorlaender wrote: > >> Willem Grooters has a blog on it: >> http://www.grootersnet.nl/bc2008/index.php > > >Thanks. > >So, when did Leo Demers become VMS product manager ? (wasn't it Ann >McQuaid before ?) I don't know anything about any of this, but Ann McQuaid is on the HP Tech Forum schedule presenting the VMS Roadmap session, while Leo Demers is on the same schedule presenting the VMS cluster explosion session (among others). -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 00:59:41 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: Martin Vorlaender wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: >> I find it interesting that there hasn't been a peep of information about >> Bootcamp. In the past, there were "live" postings of various pictures >> of people and events. All one can find now is an article by Ian Miller >> on openvms.org > > Willem Grooters has a blog on it: > http://www.grootersnet.nl/bc2008/index.php > > cu, > Martin That link is broken!! It says: "Error establishing a database connection" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 12:23:39 -0700 (PDT) From: 2jamgold@gmail.com Subject: COMPUTER GEEKS AND $UCCE$$ Message-ID: <9b79cff2-b944-4293-8923-ce9db13c26d9@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Let's face it: We love computers, we love to be creative, we love to show off our talents to as many people as will watch, and we love to make money doing it. So why don't more of us excel at the money-making? I know you have looked at the sales page of an internet marketing site and just shaken your head and said to yourself, "I can do better than that!" Perhaps you've come across a couple of good ones - real cornea poppers - that make you wonder "How'd they DO that? Do I have the software and know-how to make stuff like that?" You didn't care what they were selling; you just drooled at the creative possibilities! So, again, why don't more of us excel at money-making? What if I could show you a way to do what you love doing - creating websites, writing innovative code, developing databases, et al - and make more money than your boss? Maybe more than your CEO? (Microsoft employees, ignore that last! Bill's gonna make more than you... sorry.) What I want to do is revolutionize your perception of a much-maligned and hated profession - internet marketing! It's the perfect hand-in-glove fit for us computer geeks! We get to play with automation, with graphics, with programming and web design... All the elements that combine to draw us into the computer world are integral parts of a profession that could make you thousands and thousands of dollars a WEEK! The hard part is getting started. Don't be fooled into thinking that I'm offering you a get-rich-quick scheme. It's a profession. I'm suggesting you invest the time and effort it WILL take to learn a new angle on what you already know how to do. But still, I'm offering you a program that will transform your life - it's THE ideal way to develop and showcase your skills and abilities! The training is live and interactive on the web. The owners and top executives of this company are "in the trenches" with you and are available to help you via live chat rooms, personal phone calls (that's right - you can call the CEO and talk to him on his personal phone! You MS guys, can you do that?) You'll be led by the hand step by step to a kind of financial freedom your current J.O.B. (Just Over Broke) will NEVER provide for you. I want you to take a look at two sites: http://shmyl.com/staqson http://shmyl.com/nebqson As you look at these sites and watch the videos, think about the edge you have on everyone else that's looking into this business. You already know a lot of the principles that make internet marketers successful! You just need to learn how to apply them, and WE WILL SHOW YOU HOW! Seriously, you'll be glad you looked into this. Best regards and I'll see you at the top! Wayne Hamrick 800 708-0069 Wayne@solutionsRus.ws ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 23:32:57 +0100 From: Mike Subject: Re: DEC Document Message-ID: On Mon, 19 May 2008, Tom Linden wrote: > Anybody know if Touch Technologies, Inc. is still alive. > They don't respond to email or phone calls > Tom, getting hold of them took a little while -- they may well be concentrating on other enterprise -- however 1-800 525 2527 x721 should get you Julie Capps who replied to me just over a year ago (Feb 2007) that bug-fixes on DECdocument V3.3h are usually charged at $120 an hour. They don't appear to have a standard price list however, at least a request for one didn't find one forthcoming. The out-of-date website version info has been like that for years. The best way to encourage them to support it a little more is probably for every hobbyist who hasn't already bought one, to buy a hobbyist licence for it -- they are a business after all. The user base is probably too small for them to care much which is a shame because DECdocument may well be what's justifying some keeping VMS at all. Apparently not HP, who appear to have found a way of aping at least the software.specification doctype/DTD in Frame. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 23:41:45 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kari_Uusim=E4ki?= Subject: Re: fibre channel tape drives accessed from multiple clusters Message-ID: <483b208f$0$2671$9b536df3@news.fv.fi> Colin Butcher wrote: > The FC protocol moves data between devices. That's all it's designed to do. > > The way you set the infrastructure up determines which systems can see which > devices. That's what "zoning" in the FC switches does (it's analogous to > VLANs in a data network). In a SAN infrastructure where the zoning allows > all HBAs to see all tape devices then you will have to implement some form > of access control to ensure synchronised and serialised access to the > available pool of tape drives. > > Do beware of having Windows boxes capable of seeing the tape and robot > devices as well as your VMS systems - the Windows removable storage service > and the device drivers have a nasty habit of probing the tape and robot > devices every so often, which can play havoc with operations in progress. > It's easy enough to fix - just disable the relevant services and device > drivers in the Windows boxes, or set up the zoning so that the Windows boxes > cannot see the tape devices. > > If you choose to have all your systems see all your storage devices or tape > devices then you have to deal with the consequences by ensuring that you > don't have multiple systems attempting to access the same device at the same > time. It's not a problem that's unique to tapes. Disc storage arrays > implement "device presentation" that describe which HBA WWIDs (systems) can > access which available storage units (see the EVA Vdisk presentations or > look at selective presentation in HSGs). Tapes don't implement device > presentation as far as I'm aware - and while it might be a useful concept > (presentations being a little easier to work with than SAN zoning) you'd > still have to arbitrate access to the tapes if more than one system can see > the tapes at any given instant in time. > > In a VMS environment that's what ABS/MDMS does for you. ABS uses network > communications to arbitrate access to the tape devices by having one (or > more for redundancy) ABS servers allocate tape devices to client systems, > the ABS servers manage the tapes and moving them around using the robot, > then the ABS clients perform the backup functions directly to the tapes, > then the ABS servers take care of the tape moving again. > > Alternatively you should be able to write something pretty simple to > synchronise access to the tape devices and robots, then used BACKUP as and > when you need to. All you need to do is keep track of the tapes, robots and > backup jobs across the separate clusters. > > You could also control tape access by using SAN zoning in the SAN switches, > thus restricting access from a single cluster to a single known set of > tapes, however you'd have to change the SAN zoning if you needed to make > those tapes available to other nodes / clusters. > > However, why bother doing all that when you can buy the ABS server and > client components? It's what I've done for the big systems I've been > designing and building recently. ABS has been around for a good few years > now. It works pretty well on the whole. > > It's also worth reading the SAN design reference guide to understand SAN > zoning and a few other things. See here: > http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?contentType=SupportManual&locale=en_US&docIndexId=179911&taskId=101&prodTypeId=12169&prodSeriesId=406734 > > It's not that difficult once you understand what's going on and why it all > works as it does, then figure out what mechanisms you need to use to achieve > what's needed. > With modern tape libraries you can do also do selective presentation of the tape drives (and the robotic). That will help somewhat. Then there is also a possibility to use different zoning for different needs. E.g. when you want to backup your VMS cluster you use one zone configuration and when you are done with that you change the zoning configuration to another one which will give access to the tape library for a winbloze cluster and so on. That kind of a zoning reconfiguration can be automated. There aren't many other means of synchronizing tape drive access in a heterogenous SAN on the SAN or OS level. Backup applications like ABS can keep track of tape drive access on the application level. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 15:12:04 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Galaxy on ES45 Message-ID: <483b0c7f$0$7237$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Main, Kerry wrote: > Having stated this, I have heard of a few instances where some Cust's > Have asked for the capability to create OpenVMS Dev instances quickly, > but when pressed with the blades alternative, quite a few of them > preferred the blade approach since there was no virtual drivers etc > and the blade environment presented a closer reality to their prod > Integrity environments. Are there many types of applications which do not really make use of multi-CPU ? In such a case, wouldn't splitting a multi CPU machine into a galaxy multi-instance allow multiple separate instances of the application to each use their own "1 cpu" machine ? Also, if you run 3 instances of VMS on a galaxy box, you could perform VMS or application upgrades on one node, and then progressively reboot the others from the new disk and perform a rolling upgrade on one physical machine. (although one would argue that if you need that level of availability, you probably want to have separate machines so that you can perform hardware maintenance on one machine while others remain up). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 18:00:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Edwood Subject: Looking for CSWS 1.2 for OpenVMS 7.2-1 in Alpha Message-ID: <05689548-6432-4518-8b03-6f25e1c0f7eb@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> I have searched the HP ftp site looking for CSWS 1.2 without success: ftp://ftp.hp.com /pub/openvms/apache The only advertised versions are those appearing in this url: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws.html Any one with an alternative url? Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 15:47:55 -0700 (PDT) From: FrankS Subject: Re: ODS-5 space usage .vs. ODS-2 Message-ID: <996bdfa2-01b6-4d86-b724-269fe0b20bb8@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> To follow up on my original posting, and to answer the questions posed: a) ODS-2 cluster size was 69 blocks, ODS-5 cluster size is 64 blocks. b) ODS-2 extend quantity was 5 blocks, ODS-5 extend quantity is 64 blocks. When BACKUP restored the files, it appears to have added an additional allocation of 64 blocks to many (if not all) files. For example, if a file on the ODS-2 disk was 1/69, then after the restore it was 1/128 on the ODS-5 disk. (That is, 1 block EOF marker with 128 blocks allocated.) I can see the math, since 69 blocks can't be allocated using the ODS-5 disk settings it would require 128 blocks. However, the EOF was still within a single cluster allocation, so the extra 64 blocks is being wasted. Ken's comment about using /TRUNCATE on the restore command was on target. I wrote a procedure to do $SET FILE/TRUNCATE on all sequential files on the ODS-5 disk and the majority of the space that had been lost is now available again. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.294 ************************