INFO-VAX Tue, 27 May 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 295 Contents: AlphaStation 200 F4 error Re: AlphaStation 200 F4 error Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? cron facility wanted for VMS Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Re: cron facility wanted for VMS RE: cron facility wanted for VMS Re: cron facility wanted for VMS How secur is delete/erase ? Re: How secur is delete/erase ? Re: How secur is delete/erase ? Re: How secur is delete/erase ? How to spot an orphan in VMS Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Looking for CSWS 1.2 for OpenVMS 7.2-1 in Alpha Re: MAIL , unread messages and IMAP Re: MAIL , unread messages and IMAP Re: ODS-5 space usage .vs. ODS-2 OpenVMS and linux, pros and cons Re: OpenVMS and linux, pros and cons Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND? Re: VAX Media ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 May 2008 16:10:03 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: AlphaStation 200 F4 error Message-ID: <483c325b$0$15183$607ed4bc@cv.net> I'm trying to boot an old AlphaStation. The console initialization countdown stops at F4. The LEDs on the rear apron of the AS200 also mirror this code [**** o*oo] F4. I've googled and haven't found any definitive answer on this code. One document said "reserved to DEC" which is not very informative. Any pointers, help, etc. greatly appreciated. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:22:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 F4 error Message-ID: <8c6029fb-e87a-48c3-ba26-71042bc20077@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On May 27, 11:10 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > I'm trying to boot an old AlphaStation. The console initialization > countdown stops at F4. The LEDs on the rear apron of the AS200 also > mirror this code [**** o*oo] F4. I've googled and haven't found any > definitive answer on this code. One document said "reserved to DEC" > which is not very informative. > > Any pointers, help, etc. greatly appreciated. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html The service doc I have shows the same; 'reserved for future use' but I did find the following snippet: "When power is applied to the system, the diagnostic LEDs start decrementing as tests complete successfully If a test fails, the display does not change. Therefore, when a failure occurs , the LED code is pointing to the test which last passed." That means its test F3 that failed; the service guide says "Load the DROM code into memory.". F2 apparently continues that, and F1 should be "Successful load and checksum of DROM". The popup says that in the event the DROM load fails, SROM will attempt to load the selected firmware (ARC or SRM), and failing that will drop into a "mini console" that is apparently available to manufacturing. Is that the serial port on the MLB in the back? The docs do not say. There's also this note: "Check J3: If "normal", then HW_REI to PAL. If J3 is set to S-Port, go to the SROM mini-console." That does happen after the test that failed but perhaps the J3 jumper setting may be worth checking to see if you can get access to further diagnostics. I wonder if you have had a firmware corruption. Perhaps even to the point that you need to use a failsafe boot... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 07:46:27 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Message-ID: On May 26, 2:02 am, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:a...@vajhoej.dk] > > Sent: May 24, 2008 10:54 PM > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file > > > Peter Weaver wrote: > > > I meant to mention in the original posting that one of the reasons I > > worked > > > on this was to once again demonstrate that VMS does not just mean VT > > > terminals. Recently I was talking to a potential customer about > > managing > > > their system. When the request started going up the management chain > > someone > > > above said that the plan was to shutdown the VMS system because VMS > > is text > > > based and can not be used by a browser :(. > > > VMS is an excellent web server platform. > > > It is much worse if they ask to run the browser on VMS ... > > > Arne > > Yeah, statements like "VMS is text based.." is like saying "Windows is > DOS based ..". > > While both statements are correct, it is also true that both statements > do not reflect today's reality. > > My standard response to naysayers questions about a shortage of Operations= > staff to manage OpenVMS environments is: > > "Do you meant to tell me that your Operations staff do not know how to > use a standard mouse?" > > [Any OpenVMS environment today can be setup to be managed by first level > Operations staff with a GUI Windows and/or Web based browser environment] > > Yes, Support Admins use command line interfaces, but that is also true for= > all other platforms as well. In fact, one of Windows 2008 selling features= > is a "much enhanced command line interface for enterprise operations" > > Hey - a good command line interface is considered a good thing these days.= > > :-) > > Regards > > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-254-8911 > Fax: 613-591-4477 > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT) > > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. A story about updating text based applications on VMS is at http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=3D08/01/08/3249390 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 05:33:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: On May 27, 12:59 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Martin Vorlaender wrote: > > JF Mezei wrote: > >> I find it interesting that there hasn't been a peep of information about > >> Bootcamp. In the past, there were "live" postings of various pictures > >> of people and events. All one can find now is an article by Ian Miller > >> on openvms.org > > > Willem Grooters has a blog on it: > >http://www.grootersnet.nl/bc2008/index.php > > > cu, > > Martin > > That link is broken!! It says: > "Error establishing a database connection" It worked earlier. It was slow to load, though. Maybe Willem is back form Bootcamp and making changes. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 06:26:39 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: <2ccd7f63-574b-44cb-ba96-bca3886ddb88@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> There will be more reviews posted on www.openvms.org As I understand it Leo is a VMS Product Manager i.e. person in charge of some VMS products Ann McQ is person in charge of the VMS Group. Willem's system can get very busy at times. Give it a chance. It's not the quickest alphaserver in the world. The results of the OpenVMS.Org Readers Choice Awards are on the web site. Volker Halle was the well deserved recipient of this years VMS Ambassadors Spirit Award. Various other people received various other rewards and I hope a full list will appear soon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 07:09:44 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Any news from Bootcamp ? Message-ID: <3458a74e-0a46-4c16-b9d5-ad0e99cdda65@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On May 27, 2:03 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <483b4c7b$0$7264$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > >bradhamilton wrote: > > >> Check Hoff's blogs for his take on this issue... > > >Thanks. Should have thought about going to his site. (I wonder how many > >nominations he got ? (and number of votes :-) > > >It would be interesting to get off the record information on just how > >much information was *really* NDA and how much was easily releasable > >information. > > >It is a shame that the only remaining VMS event is getting such clamped > >down security. > > JF, > > Most people that attended are probably still in transit. Couple that with > the US Memorial Day holiday and I doubt you will hear much for another few > days. > > That said, bootcamp was comprised of many of the usual and unusual -- my- > self included -- suspects. > > I must say that I felt quite honored by all of the people who approached > me on Tuesday evening when I'd arrived to thank me for coming. It's just > little ol' me but somehow it meant more to people by my being there. I > can only say thanks*1E+06 to those who welcomed me. > > The only sad or negative news to report from bootcamp is that the draught > Guinness faucet in the Granite Lounge never once poured me a proper pint; > in fact, it never poured a pint period. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html A few pints where poured very slowly and then they gave up before VAXman arrived. Sadly they would not let him behind the bar to fix it so I had no more. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 06:17:05 -0700 (PDT) From: marlow.andrew@googlemail.com Subject: cron facility wanted for VMS Message-ID: <7f1ab094-5e0d-455a-88af-7b7172b2a9bf@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> I am talking to some ops people to find out how our internally used product can be improved. One area they have mentioned is that there is a job that is currently launched manually. As we know, easily automated tedious boring repeatative jobs that are done manually are very errorprone, AFAICS this is crying out to be automated. In Unix I would make it a cron job. What do I do on OpenVMS? (we are using 7.3 btw). I know that cron has been ported to the known universe but I want to propose a solution that uses native VMS facilities if possible. I have heard that VMS has a scheduled job facility but that it is more like at than cron. Can someone provide more details please? Obviously, at wont cut it coz if there is a problem the job may not run the next time you want it to. Regards, Andrew Marlow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:37:36 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Message-ID: marlow.andrew@googlemail.com wrote: > I am talking to some ops people to find out how our internally used > product can be improved. One area they have mentioned is that there is > a job that is currently launched manually. As we know, easily > automated tedious boring repeatative jobs that are done manually are > very errorprone, AFAICS this is crying out to be automated. In Unix I > would make it a cron job. What do I do on OpenVMS? (we are using 7.3 > btw). I know that cron has been ported to the known universe but I > want to propose a solution that uses native VMS facilities if > possible. I have heard that VMS has a scheduled job facility but that > it is more like at than cron. Can someone provide more details please? > Obviously, at wont cut it coz if there is a problem the job may not > run the next time you want it to. > > Regards, > > Andrew Marlow I use a CRON tool to run periodic jobs. It may be the same CRON port as on the VMS Freeware distribution: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/freeware/ It's a simple tool, just one COM file and a CRONTAB.DAT config file. I can send them over if you'd like. It's very stable, starts at boot and runs until shutdown... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 06:41:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Message-ID: On May 27, 9:17=A0am, marlow.and...@googlemail.com wrote: > I am talking to some ops people to find out how our internally used > product can be improved. One area they have mentioned is that there is > a job that is currently launched manually. As we know, easily > automated tedious boring repeatative jobs that are done manually are > very errorprone, AFAICS this is crying out to be automated. In Unix I > would make it a cron job. What do I do on OpenVMS? (we are using 7.3 > btw). I know that cron has been ported to the known universe but I > want to propose a solution that uses native VMS facilities if > possible. I have heard that VMS has a scheduled job facility but that > it is more like at than cron. Can someone provide more details please? > Obviously, at wont cut it coz if there is a problem the job may not > run the next time you want it to. > > Regards, > > Andrew Marlow I've always thought that OpenVMS batch-queue processing was superior to anything I've ever seen done with cron. Here is a simple example script. $!=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D $! title : watch_OpenVMS.com $! author : NSR $! created: 2002.12.17 $! purpose: watch our system to see if anything weird is happening $!=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D $ say :=3D write sys$output $ ask :=3D inquire/nopunct $ dq[0,8] =3D 34 ! "double quotes" $ if f$mode$() .eqs. "BATCH" $ then $ set ver $ set proc/name=3D"WatchOpenVMS" $ say "time: ",f$cvtime() $ sh error $ sh mem $ sh sys $ sh user $ set nover $ endif $! $ my_hour =3D f$cvtim(,,"HOUR") $ if my_hour .ge. 17 $ then $ next_time =3D dq + f$cvtim("TOMORROW","ABSOLUTE","DATE") +" 08:00:00" + dq $ else $ next_time =3D dq + f $cvtime("+0-00:01:00","ABSOLUTE","datetime") + dq $ endif $ say next_time $ submit csmis$com:watch_OpenVMS.com - /noprint - /after=3D'next_time' - /queue=3Dcsmis$batch - /User=3DCustodian - /name=3D"WatchOpenVMS" - /log=3Dcsmis$log:watch_OpenVMS.log $ exit $!=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 06:45:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Message-ID: <8d7344f0-1537-42e0-a806-9dc1d0ae48a0@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On May 27, 9:41=A0am, Neil Rieck wrote: > On May 27, 9:17=A0am, marlow.and...@googlemail.com wrote: > > > > > > > I am talking to some ops people to find out how our internally used > > product can be improved. One area they have mentioned is that there is > > a job that is currently launched manually. As we know, easily > > automated tedious boring repeatative jobs that are done manually are > > very errorprone, AFAICS this is crying out to be automated. In Unix I > > would make it a cron job. What do I do on OpenVMS? (we are using 7.3 > > btw). I know that cron has been ported to the known universe but I > > want to propose a solution that uses native VMS facilities if > > possible. I have heard that VMS has a scheduled job facility but that > > it is more like at than cron. Can someone provide more details please? > > Obviously, at wont cut it coz if there is a problem the job may not > > run the next time you want it to. > > > Regards, > > > Andrew Marlow > > I've always thought that OpenVMS batch-queue processing was superior > to anything I've ever seen done with cron. Here is a simple example > script. > > $!=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > $! title =A0: watch_OpenVMS.com > $! author : NSR > $! created: 2002.12.17 > $! purpose: watch our system to see if anything weird is happening > $!=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > $ =A0 =A0say =A0 =A0:=3D write sys$output > $ =A0 =A0ask =A0 =A0:=3D inquire/nopunct > $ =A0 =A0dq[0,8] =3D 34 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0! "double quotes" > $ =A0 =A0if f$mode$() .eqs. "BATCH" > $ =A0 =A0then > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0set ver > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0set proc/name=3D"WatchOpenVMS" > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0say "time: ",f$cvtime() > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0sh error > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0sh mem > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0sh sys > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0sh user > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0set nover > $ =A0 =A0endif > $! > $ =A0 =A0my_hour =3D f$cvtim(,,"HOUR") > $ =A0 =A0if my_hour .ge. 17 > $ =A0 =A0then > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0next_time =3D dq + f$cvtim("TOMORROW","ABSOLUTE","DATE") = +" > 08:00:00" + dq > $ =A0 =A0else > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0next_time =3D dq + f > $cvtime("+0-00:01:00","ABSOLUTE","datetime") =A0 =A0+ dq > $ =A0 =A0endif > $ =A0 =A0say next_time > $ =A0 =A0submit csmis$com:watch_OpenVMS.com =A0 =A0 - > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 /noprint =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0- > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 /after=3D'next_time' =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 /queue=3Dcsmis$batch =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 /User=3DCustodian =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = - > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 /name=3D"WatchOpenVMS" =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 /log=3Dcsmis$log:watch_OpenVMS.log > $ =A0 =A0exit > $!=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.htmlht= tp://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - One of the example lines just wrapped in a weird way. It was supposed to look like this: $ next_time =3D dq + f$cvtime("+0-00:01:00","ABSOLUTE","datetime") + dq Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:51:40 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Message-ID: Neil Rieck wrote: > On May 27, 9:17 am, marlow.and...@googlemail.com wrote: >> I am talking to some ops people to find out how our internally used >> product can be improved. One area they have mentioned is that there is >> a job that is currently launched manually. As we know, easily >> automated tedious boring repeatative jobs that are done manually are >> very errorprone, AFAICS this is crying out to be automated. In Unix I >> would make it a cron job. What do I do on OpenVMS? (we are using 7.3 >> btw). I know that cron has been ported to the known universe but I >> want to propose a solution that uses native VMS facilities if >> possible. I have heard that VMS has a scheduled job facility but that >> it is more like at than cron. Can someone provide more details please? >> Obviously, at wont cut it coz if there is a problem the job may not >> run the next time you want it to. >> >> Regards, >> >> Andrew Marlow > > I've always thought that OpenVMS batch-queue processing was superior > to anything I've ever seen done with cron. Here is a simple example > script. > > $!================================================================ > $! title : watch_OpenVMS.com > $! author : NSR > $! created: 2002.12.17 > $! purpose: watch our system to see if anything weird is happening > $!================================================================ > $ say := write sys$output > $ ask := inquire/nopunct > $ dq[0,8] = 34 ! "double quotes" > $ if f$mode$() .eqs. "BATCH" > $ then > $ set ver > $ set proc/name="WatchOpenVMS" > $ say "time: ",f$cvtime() > $ sh error > $ sh mem > $ sh sys > $ sh user > $ set nover > $ endif > $! > $ my_hour = f$cvtim(,,"HOUR") > $ if my_hour .ge. 17 > $ then > $ next_time = dq + f$cvtim("TOMORROW","ABSOLUTE","DATE") +" > 08:00:00" + dq > $ else > $ next_time = dq + f > $cvtime("+0-00:01:00","ABSOLUTE","datetime") + dq > $ endif > $ say next_time > $ submit csmis$com:watch_OpenVMS.com - > /noprint - > /after='next_time' - > /queue=csmis$batch - > /User=Custodian - > /name="WatchOpenVMS" - > /log=csmis$log:watch_OpenVMS.log > $ exit > $!================================================================ > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada. > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html I do not like "self-submitting" jobs very much. It's a mess to get the full picture of all periodical jobs runed. I prefer one single crontab.dat file where all jobs are listed together. Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:14:36 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Message-ID: <3oKdna8j8uo0iqHVnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@comcast.com> marlow.andrew@googlemail.com wrote: > I am talking to some ops people to find out how our internally used > product can be improved. One area they have mentioned is that there is > a job that is currently launched manually. As we know, easily > automated tedious boring repeatative jobs that are done manually are > very errorprone, AFAICS this is crying out to be automated. In Unix I > would make it a cron job. What do I do on OpenVMS? (we are using 7.3 > btw). I know that cron has been ported to the known universe but I > want to propose a solution that uses native VMS facilities if > possible. I have heard that VMS has a scheduled job facility but that > it is more like at than cron. Can someone provide more details please? > Obviously, at wont cut it coz if there is a problem the job may not > run the next time you want it to. > > Regards, > > Andrew Marlow As others have mentioned, there is at least one port of cron available. I'd like to recommend a product called JAMS from Argent Software. Where cron will run a job every day at 11:45, JAMS will accept specifications like "11:45 every weekday except holidays". Execution can be made conditional on the success or failure of some other job. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:18:00 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > marlow.andrew@googlemail.com wrote: >> I am talking to some ops people to find out how our internally used >> product can be improved. One area they have mentioned is that there is >> a job that is currently launched manually. As we know, easily >> automated tedious boring repeatative jobs that are done manually are >> very errorprone, AFAICS this is crying out to be automated. In Unix I >> would make it a cron job. What do I do on OpenVMS? (we are using 7.3 >> btw). I know that cron has been ported to the known universe but I >> want to propose a solution that uses native VMS facilities if >> possible. I have heard that VMS has a scheduled job facility but that >> it is more like at than cron. Can someone provide more details please? >> Obviously, at wont cut it coz if there is a problem the job may not >> run the next time you want it to. >> >> Regards, >> >> Andrew Marlow > > As others have mentioned, there is at least one port of cron available. > > I'd like to recommend a product called JAMS from Argent Software. Where > cron will run a job every day at 11:45, JAMS will accept specifications > like "11:45 every weekday except holidays". Execution can be made > conditional on the success or failure of some other job. And, what happend to DEC-Scheduler ? Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:26:26 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Message-ID: Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> marlow.andrew@googlemail.com wrote: >>> I am talking to some ops people to find out how our internally used >>> product can be improved. One area they have mentioned is that there is >>> a job that is currently launched manually. As we know, easily >>> automated tedious boring repeatative jobs that are done manually are >>> very errorprone, AFAICS this is crying out to be automated. In Unix I >>> would make it a cron job. What do I do on OpenVMS? (we are using 7.3 >>> btw). I know that cron has been ported to the known universe but I >>> want to propose a solution that uses native VMS facilities if >>> possible. I have heard that VMS has a scheduled job facility but that >>> it is more like at than cron. Can someone provide more details please? >>> Obviously, at wont cut it coz if there is a problem the job may not >>> run the next time you want it to. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Andrew Marlow >> >> As others have mentioned, there is at least one port of cron available. >> >> I'd like to recommend a product called JAMS from Argent Software. >> Where cron will run a job every day at 11:45, JAMS will accept >> specifications like "11:45 every weekday except holidays". Execution >> can be made conditional on the success or failure of some other job. > > And, what happend to DEC-Scheduler ? Could that have been renamed to "Polycenter Scheduler" and then sold to CAI? I'd rather swim with sharks than do business with CAI again! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 07:48:52 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Message-ID: <641d4beb-0e12-4978-b78a-49c66bed0cf1@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On May 27, 3:26 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: > > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > >> marlow.and...@googlemail.com wrote: > >>> I am talking to some ops people to find out how our internally used > >>> product can be improved. One area they have mentioned is that there is= > >>> a job that is currently launched manually. As we know, easily > >>> automated tedious boring repeatative jobs that are done manually are > >>> very errorprone, AFAICS this is crying out to be automated. In Unix I > >>> would make it a cron job. What do I do on OpenVMS? (we are using 7.3 > >>> btw). I know that cron has been ported to the known universe but I > >>> want to propose a solution that uses native VMS facilities if > >>> possible. I have heard that VMS has a scheduled job facility but that > >>> it is more like at than cron. Can someone provide more details please?= > >>> Obviously, at wont cut it coz if there is a problem the job may not > >>> run the next time you want it to. > > >>> Regards, > > >>> Andrew Marlow > > >> As others have mentioned, there is at least one port of cron available.= > > >> I'd like to recommend a product called JAMS from Argent Software. > >> Where cron will run a job every day at 11:45, JAMS will accept > >> specifications like "11:45 every weekday except holidays". Execution > >> can be made conditional on the success or failure of some other job. > > > And, what happend to DEC-Scheduler ? > > Could that have been renamed to "Polycenter Scheduler" and then sold to CA= I? > > I'd rather swim with sharks than do business with CAI again! It was sold to CA - say no more :-( There are enterprise scheduling packages available e.g JAMS. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:49:16 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: cron facility wanted for VMS Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: marlow.andrew@googlemail.com > [mailto:marlow.andrew@googlemail.com] > Sent: May 27, 2008 9:17 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: cron facility wanted for VMS > > I am talking to some ops people to find out how our internally used > product can be improved. One area they have mentioned is that there is > a job that is currently launched manually. As we know, easily > automated tedious boring repeatative jobs that are done manually are > very errorprone, AFAICS this is crying out to be automated. In Unix I > would make it a cron job. What do I do on OpenVMS? (we are using 7.3 > btw). I know that cron has been ported to the known universe but I > want to propose a solution that uses native VMS facilities if > possible. I have heard that VMS has a scheduled job facility but that > it is more like at than cron. Can someone provide more details please? > Obviously, at wont cut it coz if there is a problem the job may not > run the next time you want it to. > > Regards, > > Andrew Marlow Cron is a very basic scheduler which is ok for simple jobs, but that may be ok if that is all you need. Btw, what HW platform are you using? If VAX, then you are using the latest OS version. If Alpha, then you are using an OS version that is 10+ years old. Perhaps you meant V7.3-2? This is still more than 5+ years old (std support no longer available), but it is much more current than V7.3. The native OpenVMS batch environment is used by many mission critical environments today. Reference: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/XAV12X/XAV12XPF.PDF (page 5) If you would like more flexibility for a wide range of cross platform jobs and centralized scheduling features, you can use a number of commercia= l job schedulers which also offer support for OpenVMS- Here are a few examples of schedulers from long time OpenVMS partners. To the best of my knowledge, all of these are available for Integrity as well. http://www.i-s-e.com/ (Also integrated with cross-platform backup utility and great support based on feedback I received) http://www.mvpsi.com/Default.aspx (JAMS) http://www.orsyp.com/products/job-scheduler-unix-linux-windows-AS400.asp (Dollar Universe) http://www.advsyscon.com/products/activebatch/job_scheduling.asp http://cai.com/gb/products/product.aspx?ID=3D1485 (formerly DEC scheduler and they have apparently improved their service) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:42:58 GMT From: Alfred Falk Subject: Re: cron facility wanted for VMS Message-ID: marlow.andrew@googlemail.com wrote in news:7f1ab094-5e0d-455a-88af- 7b7172b2a9bf@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com: > I am talking to some ops people to find out how our internally used > product can be improved. One area they have mentioned is that there is > a job that is currently launched manually. As we know, easily > automated tedious boring repeatative jobs that are done manually are > very errorprone, AFAICS this is crying out to be automated. In Unix I > would make it a cron job. What do I do on OpenVMS? (we are using 7.3 > btw). I know that cron has been ported to the known universe but I > want to propose a solution that uses native VMS facilities if > possible. I have heard that VMS has a scheduled job facility but that > it is more like at than cron. Can someone provide more details please? > Obviously, at wont cut it coz if there is a problem the job may not > run the next time you want it to. There are several versions of cron available for VMS. VMS has a built- in batch queueing system which works very well. Many sites simply use self-submitting batch jobs along these lines: $! An example of a self-submitting batch job $ SUBMIT/AFTER="Tomorrow+8:00" 'F$ENVIRONMENT("PROCEDURE")' ... do the work This generally works well. There are situations under which jobs may fail to run - such as disk failures. Then the next submission won't happen and you have to manually re-submit the job. A "cron" facility can be more robust. It's easy to write one in DCL, such as: $!********************************************************************** $! $! CRON - another unix-like cron utility $! Alfred Falk, ARC Informations Systems, 2002-August-13 $! $! Usage: $! DEFINE/SYSTEM CRONDIR ! Optional $! @CRON $! Periodically executes commands according to schedule file in CRON_ .DAT. $! Format of data file: $! min hour day month day_of_week 1st_(day_of_week)_of_month $! possible values for fields $! month 1,2,3,...,12 or * $! day 1,2,3,...,31 or * $! hour 0,1,2,...,22,23 or * $! min 0,1,2,...,59 $! day_of_week 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 (1=Monday,7=Sunday) or list $! week_of_month 1,2,3,4,5 used in conjunction with d_o_w $! queue name of queue to use $! directory directory of procedure $! procedure procedure name (with or without .COM) $! options SUBMIT command options $! $! * is wildcard $! day_of_week can be a list, with or without commas $! Examples: $! * * 5 00 1 * ! this is run every monday at 5 am $! * * * 30 1,2,3,4,5 * ! this is run every hour on the 1/2 hour, weekdays $! * * 1 00 3 2 ! this is run 2nd Wednesday of month at $! $! If logical CRONDIR is defined, that is taken as location of table file. $! Otherwise we look in same directory as procedure. $! $! For many years we ran a CRON program on VAX systems, but that's being $! retired and I can't find an identical Alpha version. Available Alpha $! freeware products seem too complex for present needs. This procedure, $! whipped up in a day, covers all features we've ever used. $! Note that all actions must be command procedures which are submitted $! to a specified queue. The log file will be placed in the same $! directory as the procedure. All options of the SUBMIT command may $! be used. $! $!********************************************************************** $ $! "period" is wakeup period in minutes. $! This number can be changed but needs to be a divisor of 60. $! Principal effect of altering period is time to "notice" change in $! table table file. $ $ period = 30 $ res = 2 ! Minutes resolution $ $ cd = F$TRNLNM("CRONDIR") $ IF cd .EQS. "" $ THEN $ cp = F$ENVIRONMENT("PROCEDURE") $ cd = F$PARSE(cp,,,"DEVICE") + F$PARSE(cp,,,"DIRECTORY") $ ENDIF $ $ node = F$GETSYI("NODENAME") $ IF node .NES. "" $ THEN $ crontab = cd + "CRON_" + node + ".DAT" $ ELSE $ crontab = cd + "CRON.DAT" $ ENDIF $ IF F$SEARCH(crontab) .EQS. "" $ THEN $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "CRON: Can't find ",crontab $ EXIT $ ENDIF $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "CRON table file is ",crontab $ oldfiletime = "0000" $ daynames = "Monday Tuesday WednesdayThursday Friday Saturday Sunday" $ $ $ wakeup: ! This is main loop $! Periodically, we wake up and check the database $! If crontab file has been changed, reload the table into memory $ $ ON ERROR THEN CONTINUE $ now = F$CVTIME("","ABSOLUTE") $ cmo = F$INTEGER(F$CVTIME(now,"COMPARISON","MONTH")) $ cdy = F$INTEGER(F$CVTIME(now,"COMPARISON","DAY")) $ chr = F$INTEGER(F$CVTIME(now,"COMPARISON","HOUR")) $ cmi = F$INTEGER(F$CVTIME(now,"COMPARISON","MINUTE")) $ wkdy = F$CVTIME(now,"COMPARISON","WEEKDAY") $ cwd = F$LOCATE(wkdy,daynames)/9 + 1 $ cwk = (cdy-1)/7 + 1 ! week of month $ ctod = chr*60 + cmi $ $ filetime = F$CVTIME(F$FILE_ATT(crontab,"RDT"),"COMPARISON") $ IF filetime .NES. oldfiletime $ THEN ! file has been changed; reload $ OPEN/READ infile 'crontab' $ ne = 0 $ rloop: $ READ/END=rdone infile line0 $ line == F$EDIT(line0,"UNCOMMENT,COMPRESS,TRIM") $ IF line .EQS. "" THEN GOTO rloop $ ne = ne + 1 $ CALL GETVAL mo_'ne' 1 12 0 $ CALL GETVAL dy_'ne' 1 31 0 $ CALL GETVAL hr_'ne' 0 23 0 $ CALL GETVAL mi_'ne' 0 59 0 $ IF mi_'ne' .EQS. "*" THEN mi_'ne' == 0 $ CALL GETVAL wd_'ne' 0 7 1 $ CALL GETVAL wk_'ne' 0 5 0 $ CALL GETVAL q_'ne' 0 0 1 $ CALL GETVAL dr_'ne' 0 0 1 $ CALL GETVAL pr_'ne' 0 0 1 $ op_'ne' == line $ GOTO rloop $ rdone: $ CLOSE infile $ oldfiletime = filetime $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT now," Cron table refreshed. Entries=",ne $ ENDIF $ $! Scan the table, looking for things that might be done immediately or $! in period. $ $ soonest = ctod + period $ i = 0 $ tloop: $ i = i + 1 $ IF i .GT. ne THEN GOTO tdone $ mo = mo_'i' $ IF mo .EQS. "*" THEN mo = cmo $ IF mo .NE. cmo THEN GOTO tloop $ dy = dy_'i' $ IF dy .EQS. "*" THEN dy = cdy $ IF dy .NE. cdy THEN GOTO tloop $ wd = wd_'i' $ IF F$LOCATE(cwd,wd) .LT. F$LENGTH(wd) THEN wd = cwd ! Allow list $ IF wd .EQS. "*" THEN wd = cwd $ IF wd .NE. cwd THEN GOTO tloop $ wk = wk_'i' $ IF wk .EQS. "*" THEN wk = cwk $ IF wk .NE. cwk THEN GOTO tloop $ hr = hr_'i' $ IF hr .EQS. "*" THEN hr = chr $ tod = hr*60 + mi_'i' $ IF tod .LT. ctod THEN GOTO tloop $ IF ctod .LE. tod .AND. tod .LT. ctod+res $ THEN $ que = q_'i' $ proc = dr_'i' + pr_'i' $ IF F$PARSE(proc,,,"TYPE") .EQS. "." THEN proc = proc + ".COM" $ opt = op_'i' $ logfile = dr_'i' + F$PARSE(pr_'i',,,"NAME") + ".LOG" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$CVTIME()," ",que," ",proc," ",op_'i' $ IF F$SEARCH(proc) .NES. "" $ THEN $ SUBMIT/QUE='que' 'proc' 'opt' /LOG='logfile' /NOPRINT $ ELSE $ WRITE SYS$ERROR "% Can't find: ",proc $ ENDIF $ ELSE $ IF tod .LT. soonest THEN soonest = tod $ ENDIF $ GOTO tloop $ tdone: $ now=(F$CVTIME("","ABSOLUTE","HOUR")*60+F$CVTIME ("","ABSOLUTE","MINUTE"))*60+- F$CVTIME("","ABSOLUTE","SECOND") $ nwake = ((now/60 + period)/period)*period $ IF soonest .LT. nwake THEN nwake = soonest $ delta = nwake*60 - now $ wmin = delta/60 $ wsec = delta - wmin*60 $ IF wmin .LT. 0 .or. wsec .LT. 0 THEN EXIT $ WAIT 0:'wmin':'wsec' $ GOTO wakeup $ $ $! Subroutine to extract time values from line $! Arguments are: returned_variable, min, max, allow_anything $ $ getval: SUBROUTINE $ v = F$ELEMENT(0," ",line) $ IF v .EQS. "*" THEN GOTO gvok $ IF p2 .LE. V .AND. v .LE. p3 THEN GOTO gvok $ IF p4 THEN GOTO gvok $ WRITE SYS$ERROR "Bad time element: ",line $ v = p2 $ gvok: $ 'p1' == v $ line == line - v - " " $ EXIT $ ENDSUBROTINE ---------------------- The cron process is started at boot time by the following ! Start DCL CRON - usually run at boot $ $ location = "APP_A:[SYSTOOLS]" $ $ DEFINE/SYSTEM CRONDIR 'location' $ $! Run command procedure as detached process $ $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE - /AUTH /DETACHED / PROCESS_NAME="Cron(DCL)" - /INPUT='location'CRON.COM - /OUTPUT='location'CRON.LOG - /ERROR='location'CRON.ERR ------------------------------------ Note that this scheme depends completely on VMS batch system as all jobs are submetted to batch queues. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- A L B E R T A Alfred Falk falk@arc.ab.ca R E S E A R C H Information Systems Dept (780)450-5185 C O U N C I L 250 Karl Clark Road Edmonton, Alberta, Canada http://www.arc.ab.ca/ T6N 1E4 http://outside.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 17:45:20 +0200 From: "Klaus-D. Bohn" Subject: How secur is delete/erase ? Message-ID: <483c2cbc$0$1515$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> Hello, i hope, i have a very simply question. How secur is "delete/erase" ? After this command, no other program can recover these informations? Thank you very much! Klaus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:00:17 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: How secur is delete/erase ? Message-ID: DELETE/ERASE by default writes one pass of zeros. There are documented ways to change this to write a different pattern or have more passes. Another tool built in to VMS is ANALYZE/ MEDIA/EXER=FULL which will perform three passes - zeros, ones and random. It's up to you how far you want to go with this. Some would say that is ok, others would call for physical destruction of the disk and all who have seen it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 18:32:18 +0200 From: "Klaus-D. Bohn" Subject: Re: How secur is delete/erase ? Message-ID: <483c3795$0$9740$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> Thank you. Could you give me a short hint where is that documented to change the pattern ? Klaus "IanMiller" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:eec075ed-2586-49cd-b22d-35896ed76547@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > DELETE/ERASE by default writes one pass of zeros. There are documented > ways to change this to write a different pattern or have more passes. > > Another tool built in to VMS is > ANALYZE/ MEDIA/EXER=FULL > which will perform three passes - zeros, ones and random. > > It's up to you how far you want to go with this. Some would say that > is ok, others would call for physical destruction of the disk and all > who have seen it. ------------------------------ Date: 27 May 2008 16:53:47 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: How secur is delete/erase ? Message-ID: <483c3c9b$0$25018$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <483c3795$0$9740$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>, "Klaus-D. Bohn" writes: >Thank you. > >Could you give me a short hint where is that documented to change the >pattern ? > >Klaus For starters: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/5841/5841pro_091.html -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 06:09:48 -0700 (PDT) From: marlow.andrew@googlemail.com Subject: How to spot an orphan in VMS Message-ID: <5773516c-7176-490b-8dbe-874295521a40@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com> I don't know VMS so please excuse my ignorance. I am reasonably familiar with Unix so I cannot help describing my problem in Unix terms. My client uses VMS v7.3.1 and gets a VMS session using WRQ Reflection. This basically gives them an xterm session. From there they run the sw they need to use. This particular sw uses a lock such that only one user at a time can do a particular task (dont ask). If a second user needs to do it then the first user has to finish the session cleanly. The problem is that sometimes they kill the xterm whilst the VMS sw is still running. Apparently VMS does not spot this so other sw instances that want to get a look in cannot. My question is: how can the ops staff track down the process associated with the killed xterm? In unix the process would become an orphan and get adopted by init. All orphans can be found easily by grep'ing the output of ps. Maybe there is some kind of filtering that can be done with SHOW USERS or something like that. I asked the ops people and they did not know of a way. Regards, Andrew Marlow ------------------------------ Date: 27 May 2008 08:07:14 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: In article <4837097e$0$7280$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > VMS *was* a general purpose OS. VMS management have retasked it to a > narrow niche of high end server OS. About as specialised as Tandem's > NSK now. Management has not rewritten the kernel to remove capabilities they no longer deem relavent. It's in there. ------------------------------ Date: 27 May 2008 08:09:07 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: In article <2uydnf3C2Pl1rqXVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@earthlink.com>, "Michael D. Ober" writes: > > VMS is not a real-time OS. It can be configured to act like one, but there > are no guarantees that VMS will respond to events in a timely fashion, which > is a requirement for RTOS's. VMS will not keep up with a pure RTOS like VxWorks in some cases, but it is deterministic and has a much better real-time design in its kernel then pure timesharing systems, or timesharing UNIX with real-time hacks added on. ------------------------------ Date: 27 May 2008 08:07:46 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > Well, when the security hole is exploited by some hacker, you will see > some action. Be patient. What on earth makes you think that hasn't already happened? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:23:58 -0400 From: "warren sander" Subject: Re: Looking for CSWS 1.2 for OpenVMS 7.2-1 in Alpha Message-ID: CPQ AXPVMS CSWS V1.3-1 is at: ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/openvms/apache/CPQ-AXPVMS-CSWS-V0103-1-1.PCSI_SFX_AXPEXE "Edwood" wrote in message news:05689548-6432-4518-8b03-6f25e1c0f7eb@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >I have searched the HP ftp site looking for CSWS 1.2 without success: > > ftp://ftp.hp.com /pub/openvms/apache > > The only advertised versions are those appearing in this url: > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws.html > > Any one with an alternative url? > > Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: 27 May 2008 08:05:30 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: MAIL , unread messages and IMAP Message-ID: <1K0sfNzTHPys@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <4836f843$0$31227$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > I've been, as it as been suggested, using an IMAP client on a non VMS > owrkstation to access my VMSmail store/account. > > While thunderbird has the correct number of unread messages, VMSmail > thinks I have a gazillion emails. Check your IMAP client settings to see if it is deleting the messages after it grabs them. Generally you don't want to keep copies on both your server and your client. Imaging how much disk space would be used up in the world if every email server kept copies of every email. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:41:57 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: MAIL , unread messages and IMAP Message-ID: In article <1K0sfNzTHPys@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >In article <4836f843$0$31227$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >> I've been, as it as been suggested, using an IMAP client on a non VMS >> owrkstation to access my VMSmail store/account. >> >> While thunderbird has the correct number of unread messages, VMSmail >> thinks I have a gazillion emails. > > Check your IMAP client settings to see if it is deleting the > messages after it grabs them. Generally you don't want to > keep copies on both your server and your client. Imaging how > much disk space would be used up in the world if every email > server kept copies of every email. > IMAP is meant to leave mail on your server. POP is the protocol which just downloads mail and by default deletes it (though you can specify that you want to leave it on the server). If you want to access your mail from multiple clients then you generally want to use IMAP and you definitely want to leave the mail on the server. Generally IMAP clients do NOT move mail to other folders or delete mail unless you explicitly move the mail message to another folder or delete it. This is different from the VMS MAIL client which automatically moves read mail from the NEWMAIL folder to the MAIL Folder. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: 27 May 2008 08:22:49 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: ODS-5 space usage .vs. ODS-2 Message-ID: In article <9e6babc9-6c26-4d08-a538-6e6dc40aa431@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, FrankS writes: > I converted a disk to ODS-5 this weekend, using $BACKUP/IMAGE/NOINIT > to a spare disk instead of $SET VOLUME. That was to preserve the old > disk in the event of problems. > > Anyway, after the BACKUP completed the new ODS-5 disk had about > 6,000,000 fewer free blocks than the old. That's about 10% of the > total disk space (36gb drive). > > Needless to say, that caught me off guard. Is there anything > documented which mentions this additional space premium? It is > understandable, given the additional information being stored for each > file (more dates, for one), but I read through a couple of manuals and > couldn't find anything that mentioned the space penalty. There's a good chance that something like the cluster size changed between initializing the original disk and the new disk. I've done the "conversion" via set volume on many disks and not seen significant growth in used space, so I think the change from ODS-2 to ODS-5 is not likely the culprit. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 06:27:42 -0700 (PDT) From: marlow.andrew@googlemail.com Subject: OpenVMS and linux, pros and cons Message-ID: <5a32bef6-9882-4036-8aa1-7128e150f92c@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> I am considering the cost benefits or otherwise of moving some sw off OpenVMS to Linux. I would like to hear about the pros and cons. Hopefully this will not start a flamewar, I really do want to know! Here, as I see it, are the main issues: OpenVMS does not support the latest version of third party products we use (e.g only Oracle 10g is supported). Most companies wont train people in VMS even if they use VMS kit. This makes developers shy away (they prefer to know about they platform they work on). OpenVMS offers better reliability due to clustering. VMS hardware is very reliable. A port away from VMS would be a generic Unix port rather than a port that ties it to Linux. This would enable commercial unix implementations such as Solaris to be used. Unix SAs are very thin on the ground these days. At least my client already has the VMS ops people it needs. Regards, Andrew Marlow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:08:27 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OpenVMS and linux, pros and cons Message-ID: marlow.andrew@googlemail.com wrote: > I am considering the cost benefits or otherwise of moving some sw off > OpenVMS to Linux. I would like to hear about the pros and cons. > Hopefully this will not start a flamewar, I really do want to know! > > Here, as I see it, are the main issues: > > OpenVMS does not support the latest version of third party products we > use (e.g only Oracle 10g is supported). > > Most companies wont train people in VMS even if they use VMS kit. This > makes developers shy away (they prefer to know about they platform > they work on). > > OpenVMS offers better reliability due to clustering. > > VMS hardware is very reliable. So is the O/S. Not to mention user friendly! > > A port away from VMS would be a generic Unix port rather than a port > that ties it to Linux. This would enable commercial unix > implementations such as Solaris to be used. > > Unix SAs are very thin on the ground these days. At least my client > already has the VMS ops people it needs. > > Regards, > > Andrew Marlow Porting software is sometimes just a matter of recompiling, relinking, and testing. That's for the easy ones. "Hello world!" can build and run on just about any hardware/software platform. Real software can be, and usually is, more difficult! A "simple" hardware upgrade and/or O/S upgrade can consume thousands of man hours of planning testing and execution. Most systems are not toys, they have work to do and that work generally must be done! Porting an application of any significant size is going to cost a great deal of money. What return will you get from the investment? As for finding Unix sysadmins, this should not be a great problem. Send your VMS sysadmin to Unix school! If all else fails, I'm available! I've done both. ------------------------------ Date: 27 May 2008 08:13:52 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND? Message-ID: In article <69psojF34ifcpU1@mid.individual.net>, "David Weatherall" writes: > Tom Linden wrote: > > > OK I'll show my ignorance. Where's the meta key on my LK2/400 or PC > keyboard? :) > On the LK400 you can generally set one key to send ESC, which is often used to start the meta sequence on terminals of that era. You won't find that on the LK200, but ESC can be generated as ^[ (control-[). The real problem is redefining search so you don't slam into XOFF. Or convincing your boss that he has to spend the money to implement hardware flow control. ------------------------------ Date: 27 May 2008 08:20:09 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: VAX Media Message-ID: In article <483a17fc$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: > > I would expect the Java one's to run on VMS. Are you saying that > they don't ? He was speaking specific to VAXen. There's no Java engine for VAXen. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.295 ************************