INFO-VAX Mon, 02 Jun 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 307 Contents: Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Re: China responsible for past major power outages? Where is OpenVMS? Re: CVS on VMS Re: CVS on VMS Re: CVS on VMS RE: Galaxy on ES45 RE: Galaxy on ES45 Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Re: Moving disk on EVA from controller A to B? Re: Moving disk on EVA from controller A to B? Re: OpenVMS and linux, pros and cons OT: Net Neutrality is far more serious than people realise Re: OT: Net Neutrality is far more serious than people realise Re: OT: Net Neutrality is far more serious than people realise Re: OT: Net Neutrality is far more serious than people realise Re: Patchlevel upgrade? Re: php with osu 3.10a and openvms 8.3 Re: php with osu 3.10a and openvms 8.3 Re: php with osu 3.10a and openvms 8.3 Re: Python on VMS status ? Re: Python on VMS status ? Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot [GS1280] how to set serial number ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 07:23:28 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Message-ID: Richard Maher wrote: > Hi Peter, Jan-Erik, > >> Me too. > > Look, me three but I really think you're doing yourselves a disservice by > not at least looking at FlexBuilder. I didn't want it either and only > downloaded it 'cos I couldn't see any other way of getting access to Flex > Charting. Yes, that's definitely interesting. Did you get the Std or the Prof version of Builder ? It seems as it's the Prof version that has "advanced charting functions"... !? Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 16:09:42 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Message-ID: Hi Jan-Erik, > Did you get the Std or the Prof version of Builder ? > It seems as it's the Prof version that has > "advanced charting functions"... !? Whatever comes with the 60-day free-trial (You may have noticed those annoying "Flex Data Visualization" watermarks all over my lovely demo :-) But I think it's the Professional mutt's nuts version. If only I had access to something like Mick Keyes' self-indulgence allowance then I could show you much more. Cheers Richard Maher PS. The good thing about the 60 day limit is it forces you to pull a finger out and have a go. You'll honestly be amazed at how easy it is! For example, you could take my .AS and .MXML and .HTML files and build a tiny project and be rockin' and rollin' in no time! (The tutorial woe-to-go is also pretty useful) "Jan-Erik Söderholm" wrote in message news:QdN0k.7893$R_4.6469@newsb.telia.net... > Richard Maher wrote: > > Hi Peter, Jan-Erik, > > > >> Me too. > > > > Look, me three but I really think you're doing yourselves a disservice by > > not at least looking at FlexBuilder. I didn't want it either and only > > downloaded it 'cos I couldn't see any other way of getting access to Flex > > Charting. > > Yes, that's definitely interesting. > Did you get the Std or the Prof version of Builder ? > It seems as it's the Prof version that has > "advanced charting functions"... !? > > Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:28:14 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: China responsible for past major power outages? Where is OpenVMS? Message-ID: On May 31, 2:08 pm, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > the power grid used to be controlled by vms, but now that some idiotic > power companies have evidently gone to windoze and linux, that virus > free vms platform that used to exist is now open to chinese > hackers ... > > http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/cs_20080531_6948.php Bruce Schneier says not http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/06/did_the_chinese.html Wired News also thinks it was not the Chinse http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/05/did-hackers-cau.html This report is most likely political manouvering prior to asking for more money ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jun 2008 08:42:04 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: CVS on VMS Message-ID: In article <2f2d994a-c88c-40b0-a575-5a21861cd7a2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, marlow.andrew@googlemail.com writes: > > The reason I ask is that I am in an environment that uses VMS for > hysterical reasons. It is no longer a strategic platform and on a > project-by-project basis there are attempts to move off it. For > projects that are on it the source tends to be maintained using CMS. I > was wondering if the source could be hosted on a Unix machine where > the CVS server would be and then developers on VMS could use a VMS CVS > client. One benefit is that it would make the source available to more > people that need to see it that are not VMS developers. Any thoughts? There is a working CVS client, has been one for years, for VMS. I've set it up and used it, mostly with SSH access to the server (CVS security sucks). You will have the same problem between VMS and UNIX that we had between Windows and UNIX - one is not case sensitive, the other is, unless you set up and enable case sentivity as available in the latest releases of VMS. On Windows vs. UNIX, we had a perfectly good Xy and a bad xy both stored in a UNIX CVS server accessed for a cross compiler that ran on Windows. When we updated we'd get Xy and then xy, and Windows would store the later over Xy. When we explicitly pulled Xy from the server via CVS it would look perfectly good, and forcing it to be updated would not solve the problem of having a bad one when we got done with an update. We had to get into the server and dig around the repository to find and eliminate the bad xy. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jun 2008 08:44:16 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: CVS on VMS Message-ID: In article <484212f7$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: > > If you need a web frontend then you need something newer. > I've seen a lot of web front ends rolled around CVS, it's not a major undertaking. A look around might find one of them already sitting somewhere for free. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 06:03:42 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: CVS on VMS Message-ID: On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 06:39:26 -0700, Tom Linden wrote: > On Sat, 31 May 2008 20:03:14 -0700, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > >> SVN is the standard today. >> But there are still a lot of CVS users out there. >> > > RCS was once widely used, we used it on Tru64. There was an interesting > piece code developed at Berkeley late 70s SPMS Software Project > Management > System, which created a virtual directory structure organized by > projects, > the elements of which were linked to the underlyiong file system(s) and > CVS or RCS ran under that. It was included in the early 4.x > distributions. > That should have been SCCS not CVS. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:29:20 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Galaxy on ES45 Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk] > Sent: June 1, 2008 10:02 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Galaxy on ES45 > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk] > >> But considering how VMWare sell today, then maybe Galaxy > >> could have sold better with the right marketing and > > > > Well, that might be part of it, but the OpenVMS Cust might simply ask > > "why not just run these applications on the same OS instance?" > > Other OS than VMS. I was talking about OpenVMS Cust's who have been doing App stacking for dec= ades. > > Different VMS versions. Different VMS versions are supported in a Cluster - that's no reason to not consolidate to a common cluster environment. > > They want to be able to reboot on system without effecting > the other apps. > > Arne Well, I would ask "why do you want to reboot for?", but even if it were required, you can do that with a properly set-up cluster i.e. zero impact on end users. Since the load is shared in a common cluster, you do not even have to tell them that a specific node is being brought out of service. Simply set a flag (e.g. logins=3D0) which allows current users to continue, but all new users are directed to some other node in the cluster. When all current users on that specific server are done, simply shut that server dow= n with zero impact on end users. [there are a few misc other things to consid= er like batch jobs, but these are also items that can be easily handled.] As John indicated, the issue with "run all on enterprise functions on Apps like SAP" is that you give up flexibility to adapt to changing and differen= t local business requirements. And the future is all about having a nimble, quick to react company that is heavily focussed on rapidly changing local service requirements. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:35:29 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Galaxy on ES45 Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk] > Sent: June 1, 2008 10:02 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Galaxy on ES45 > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk] > >> But considering how VMWare sell today, then maybe Galaxy > >> could have sold better with the right marketing and > > > > Well, that might be part of it, but the OpenVMS Cust might simply ask > > "why not just run these applications on the same OS instance?" > > Other OS than VMS. I was talking about OpenVMS Cust's who have been doing App stacking for dec= ades. > > Different VMS versions. Different VMS versions are supported in a Cluster - that's no reason to not consolidate to a common cluster environment. > > They want to be able to reboot on system without effecting > the other apps. > > Arne Well, I would ask "why do you want to reboot for?", but even if it were required, you can do that with a properly set-up cluster i.e. zero impact on end users. Since the load is shared in a common cluster, you do not even have to tell them that a specific node is being brought out of service. Simply set a flag (e.g. logins=3D0) which allows current users to continue, but all new users are directed to some other node in the cluster. When all current users on that specific server are done, simply shut that server dow= n with zero impact on end users. [there are a few misc other things to consid= er like batch jobs, but these are also items that can be easily handled.] As John indicated, the issue with "run all on enterprise functions on Apps like SAP" is that you give up flexibility to adapt to changing and differen= t local business requirements. And the future is all about having a nimble, quick to react company that is heavily focussed on rapidly changing local service requirements. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:41:36 +0200 From: "Fred Zwarts" Subject: Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Message-ID: <5300d$4843a430$817d1b38$7348@news1.tudelft.nl> "Robert Jarratt" wrote in message = news:RaB0k.9453$Bz2.720@newsfe28.ams2... >I am attempting to read a tape that may be physically damaged in a few=20 > places. It contains a backup saveset and I get some parity errors when = > trying to read it. I would like to recover what I can. What is the = best way=20 > to do this with VMS? >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Rob=20 Backup was designed to recover these kinds of problems by using XOR = blocks. We have seen demonstrations with 9-track tape drives in which holes were = punched, after which backup was still able to restore all files from the saveset. Unfortunately, modern tape drive hardware do not allow to read beyond a=20 parity error hardware wise, so that backup's XOR blocks are useless. I never understood why such tape drives were designed by DEC when they had such a good backup design. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jun 2008 08:58:37 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Message-ID: In article , "Robert Jarratt" writes: > I am attempting to read a tape that may be physically damaged in a few > places. It contains a backup saveset and I get some parity errors when > trying to read it. I would like to recover what I can. What is the best way > to do this with VMS? BACKUP is the best way to do this. It was designed to deal with this situtation. However, some tape drives may not allow you to read past errors (a firmware "feature"), in which case you may have to contact a data recovery outfit (they out thier own firmware in thier drives). It is possible when making the tape to have turned off all the tricks of the trade that BACKUP uses to get around media errors, and it is possible to get so many errors that even BACKUP can't handle it. But I have restored critical data from bad media many times with BACKUP just by letting it do its thing. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jun 2008 08:59:45 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Message-ID: In article <5300d$4843a430$817d1b38$7348@news1.tudelft.nl>, "Fred Zwarts" writes: > I never understood why such tape drives were designed by DEC > when they had such a good backup design. I don't think DEC designed those drives, I think they resold them. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:08:32 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Message-ID: <4oqdnTLyqOn6htnVnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@comcast.com> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , "Robert Jarratt" writes: >> I am attempting to read a tape that may be physically damaged in a few >> places. It contains a backup saveset and I get some parity errors when >> trying to read it. I would like to recover what I can. What is the best way >> to do this with VMS? > > BACKUP is the best way to do this. It was designed to deal with > this situtation. > > However, some tape drives may not allow you to read past errors (a > firmware "feature"), in which case you may have to contact a data > recovery outfit (they out thier own firmware in thier drives). > > It is possible when making the tape to have turned off all the tricks > of the trade that BACKUP uses to get around media errors, and it is > possible to get so many errors that even BACKUP can't handle it. > > But I have restored critical data from bad media many times with > BACKUP just by letting it do its thing. > Backup can do a LOT more with reel-to-reel tape than it can with DLT tape. One of the show-off tricks with VMS backup was to take a BACKUP tape, punch three holes in the tape with a three ring punch and have BACKUP successfully read the tape. Once a stand DLT drive sees a hard error on a tape, it gives up. Nothing except custom firmware will make it read the tape. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:09:33 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Message-ID: <4oqdnS3yqOk5htnVnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@comcast.com> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <5300d$4843a430$817d1b38$7348@news1.tudelft.nl>, "Fred Zwarts" writes: > >> I never understood why such tape drives were designed by DEC >> when they had such a good backup design. > > I don't think DEC designed those drives, I think they resold them. > I don't know about the design of the drives but I'm pretty sure they were manufactured by a third party. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 16:21:51 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Message-ID: In article <4oqdnS3yqOk5htnVnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article <5300d$4843a430$817d1b38$7348@news1.tudelft.nl>, "Fred Zwarts" writes: >> >>> I never understood why such tape drives were designed by DEC >>> when they had such a good backup design. >> >> I don't think DEC designed those drives, I think they resold them. >> > >I don't know about the design of the drives but I'm pretty sure they >were manufactured by a third party. DLT was developed by Digital and was then sold to Quantum in 1994. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Linear_Tape David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:27:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Rob Subject: Re: Moving disk on EVA from controller A to B? Message-ID: <3ffbd801-a89d-447a-8bbb-2f5ed23eab7b@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On May 30, 7:54=A0am, yeh...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote: > Hello, > > =A0 I have an EVA-5,000 with a few systems connected to it. Recently, afte= r I got > complains of slow response during peak hours, I've found that one controll= er > is less used than the other (using EVAperf and looking for the host port > stats). When looking at the virtual disks definitions I > see that most disks are defined as "Path A preferred" while very few are > defined as "path B preffered". I've tried two things to move some more dis= ks > from A to B, without success: > > - On the VMS: Set device/path=3Dxxx/switch; after the command I do SHOW DE= VICE > =A0 and see that the new path is unavailable and the disk returns to the o= ld > =A0 path. > > - changing the preffered path on the EVA. however, the managing controller= is > =A0 left as A. > > Any idea how to force the EVA to change the managing controller for a disk= ? > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Thanks! __Yehavi: ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:28:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Rob Subject: Re: Moving disk on EVA from controller A to B? Message-ID: On May 30, 7:54=A0am, yeh...@vms.huji.ac.il wrote: > Hello, > > =A0 I have an EVA-5,000 with a few systems connected to it. Recently, afte= r I got > complains of slow response during peak hours, I've found that one controll= er > is less used than the other (using EVAperf and looking for the host port > stats). When looking at the virtual disks definitions I > see that most disks are defined as "Path A preferred" while very few are > defined as "path B preffered". I've tried two things to move some more dis= ks > from A to B, without success: > > - On the VMS: Set device/path=3Dxxx/switch; after the command I do SHOW DE= VICE > =A0 and see that the new path is unavailable and the disk returns to the o= ld > =A0 path. > > - changing the preffered path on the EVA. however, the managing controller= is > =A0 left as A. > > Any idea how to force the EVA to change the managing controller for a disk= ? > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Thanks! __Yehavi: As long as your EVA firmware is reasonably up-to-date, the EVA will balance the disk load itself, so you shouldn't need to force a swap of the disks. Rob. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 00:13:56 -0700 (PDT) From: johnwallace4@gmail.com Subject: Re: OpenVMS and linux, pros and cons Message-ID: On Jun 2, 3:14 am, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > Main, Kerry wrote: > > From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:a...@vajhoej.dk] > >> Main, Kerry wrote: > >>>> If you have sufficient customers that want your stuff on *nix > >>>> and will not accept it on VMS, then you need to add *nix as > >>>> supported platform. > >>> You forgot one scenario under the current scenario. Instead of "do not= hing", > >>> you could also add > >>> - upgrade current environment to use latest gui mgmt tools which will = simplify > >>> the Operational support environment such that any Operator who can han= dle a mouse > >>> can manage an OpenVMS system. > >> Most customers has more requirements for their platforms than > >> "it can be managed with a mouse". > > >>> Other consideration as well- > >>> - is your management under extreme pressures to reduce IT costs and ha= ve in > >>> place a 2-3 year plan to consolidate servers, OS instances (where bigg= est > >>> staff costs are hidden) and Data Centers? > > >>> If yes, one bus app per OS instance platforms may not be the right tar= get > >>> environment. There are cultural and technical challenges to be conside= red > >>> which will make it extremely difficult to consolidate at some future > >> point. > > >> Consolidation is not working *for* VMS but *against* VMS. > > >> Consolidations works for the platforms where all the software is > >> available for. > > >> The all VMS shop is a rare animal today. > > > So is an all Wintel or an all UNIX shop. Reality is that today's world > > is multi-vendor, multi-platform. I am sure there are some examples of > > each today, but there are not many - especially in med-large companies. > > > Only exceptions might be Microsoft (only Microsoft products) or Sun (no > > Microsoft products allowed) .. > > Most large companies has a bit of everything. > > But that does not change the fact that when consolidating they > consolidate on something where all the apps are available. > > And that is very rarely VMS. Most likely Linux or Windows. Possible > Solaris or AIX. > > > On your consolidation note - perhaps you can explain to me what the > > Cust CIO response should be to the CEO who says "that's great that > > you have reduced our HW by 20% by implementing VMware, but please > > explain why the number of VM OS's we are supporting grew by 40% and > > our staffing numbers are not going down? Please explain to me how > > you plan to reduce all of these VM's that have sprung up like > > rabbits in the last year .." > > > I am not saying they will move to OpenVMS, but the answer to this > > question is going to be extremely difficult to answer when you have > > a "one bus App, one OS" culture in place. > > He should reply that the virtualization reduced the HW cost and > that SW and hour reduction cost will require: > - reduction of number of platforms (and versions of those) > - reduction of number of apps > > Arne Ah yes, the "let's do everything on one app/one platform" myth. How many businesses have come close to disaster when the SAP (or Oracle Apps or whatever, just that SAP is the most visible) salesfolks convinced the board, and the reality turned out to be rather different than the lunches? If it really was sensible and practical to do everything on one application family, "enterprise integration" middleware woudn't be as trendy as it still is. Not that it's any panacea itself - as a contributor here pointed out recently iirc, who needs middleware when you've got sockets and a couple of developers who actually have a clue. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 04:56:48 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: OT: Net Neutrality is far more serious than people realise Message-ID: <4843b75a$0$20547$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> You have undoubtedly heard of "net neutrality", and figured it wouldn't really affect you and it was just some radical hippies wanting some attention. Bell Canada has recently begun to throttle its competitors to prevent them from gaining any advantage over throttled Sympatico (its own retail ISP brand) customers. As a result I have begun to read about the issue and it is VERY SCARY. New technology is now fast enough to provide DPI (deep packet inspection) on a large scale. Ellacoya has one box capable of scanning 20 gbps "live", with 500,000 customers each having multiple TCPIP sessions running (throttling by TCPIP session). It scans your private data, able to looks at multiple packets to detects certain applications, and will do accounting of what user uses what applications for how much data being exchanged. It can also do that on a HTTOP transaction dwon to each web site visited per user (which the telco can then sell to advertising firms). http://www.isp-planet.com/news/2005/ellacoya_050718.html It is all about the money. Large ISPs usually also have other distribution at stake. For instance, a cable company doesn't want to see it Cable TV revenus eroded because people get content from the internet. What do they do ? They disable/cripple movie downloads from outside their network and point their customers to their own video download service that charges money. Next in line will be "pay as you go" when your basic internet access will give you access to a list fo identified web sites, and whenever you access other web sites, you will be billed by the byte or whatever they choose. You then need to subscribe toa higher tier subscription to gain access to the whole net. Similarly, to get your Xbox or VoIP service to connect fast enough, you will need to pay a higher fee otherwise the DPI boxes will throttle those applications to barely usable speeds. The list goes on an on. The only way for this to stop is to get governments to step in and legislate that ISPs cannot discriminate on application, source/destination IPs etc. The current case with Bell Canada is currently at the CRTC because Bell is crippling the service sold to its competitors under government approved tariffs (since Bell has monopoly status on the ADSL infrastructure). Bell's goal is to slip those boxes in under the guise of network management and then once they are in, deploy new packages that cripple access to the outside world to favour access to Bell owned properties. Virgin and British Telecom in the UK are or have installed similar systems. The upper management have all seen fancy popwerpoint presentation from the DPI vendors (Ellacoya/Arbor, Sandvine, pCube and many others) that tell them that these boxes will offer them great new revenu possibilities. If people and politicians don't wake up NOW, it may be too late to stop the ISPs from implementing this. Why is this so bad ? -no new applicatiosn will emerge because they will be throttled by default. -no new web sites will emerge because startups won't have the money to "buy access" to the large ISPs and thus will not be included in the list of ISps allowed by all customers. This means no new apps, no new "facebooks" no new "ebay" etc etc. This is very serious matter. I urge you to read up on it and get involved. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 06:20:57 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: OT: Net Neutrality is far more serious than people realise Message-ID: On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 01:56:48 -0700, JF Mezei wrote: > New technology is now fast enough to provide DPI (deep packet > inspection) on a large scale. Ellacoya has one box capable of scanning > 20 gbps "live", with 500,000 customers each having multiple TCPIP > sessions running (throttling by TCPIP session). It scans your private > data, able to looks at multiple packets to detects certain applications, > and will do accounting of what user uses what applications for how much > data being exchanged. It can also do that on a HTTOP transaction dwon to > each web site visited per user (which the telco can then sell to > advertising firms). Why is this not like opening someone's mail, from a legal viewpoint? -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:11:51 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: OT: Net Neutrality is far more serious than people realise Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 01:56:48 -0700, JF Mezei > wrote: > >> New technology is now fast enough to provide DPI (deep packet >> inspection) on a large scale. Ellacoya has one box capable of scanning >> 20 gbps "live", with 500,000 customers each having multiple TCPIP >> sessions running (throttling by TCPIP session). It scans your private >> data, able to looks at multiple packets to detects certain applications, >> and will do accounting of what user uses what applications for how much >> data being exchanged. It can also do that on a HTTOP transaction dwon to >> each web site visited per user (which the telco can then sell to >> advertising firms). > >Why is this not like opening someone's mail, from a legal viewpoint? > You mean like automatically opening and scanning mail for viruses on the central mailhub ? Deep packet inspection has been used by businesses for years - its the only way to detect "firewall friendly" applications which bypass the firewall by tunneling over port 80. Though nowadays many of these applications are moving over to using encryption and port 443 which makes them pretty much invisible to deep packet inspection. The businesses doing that deep packet inspection though usually have a legal obligation to keep that data secure and to only use it for specific purposes eg keeping the network running, secure and free from applications which the business' policy bans from its network. (The exact legal position of course depends upon which legal jurisdiction the business falls under). A more recent development has been the plans of certain ISPs to use a product from a company called Phorm to target you with advertisements according to your browser habits as determined by Phorm's interception of your browser requests see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/29/phorm_roundup/ and in particular the secret trials of this product carried out last year without informing customers. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >-- >PL/I for OpenVMS >www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jun 2008 13:17:12 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT: Net Neutrality is far more serious than people realise Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > Why is this not like opening someone's mail, from a legal viewpoint? Because the laws that protect snail mail are specific to snail mail. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:06:31 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Patchlevel upgrade? Message-ID: <842b548f-ff3e-4145-8f18-37fa8c7e7ee0@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Jun 2, 1:13 am, AEF wrote: > On Jun 1, 4:08 pm, FrankS wrote: > > > On Jun 1, 3:39 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" > > wrote: > > > > This is the first time I've heard it suggested that patches add new > > > functionality! > > > There have been cases in the past where a patch to a prior version > > will include new functionality from a more recent version. For > > example, giving v6.x some of the v7.x feature set. > > I had a case in which the new 6.2 BACKUP incremental functionality was > added to my 5.5-? system at a job I had in the late 90's (mixed > blessing). I think it was part of a Y2K ECO kit, but I had installed > at least two other ECO kits specifically to cure some problems (I > think it was two), and it might have been one of those. I don't > remember. > > > > > > Others can wait for my > > > convenience or for the problem to manifest on my system. > > Oil changes? We don't need no stinking oil changes! ;*) > > > So much for preventive maintenance. > > > > Thank you, VMS Engineering, for a > > > superb product! > > > And for good patches. I can't recall an instance where I installed a > > patch and had to withdraw it. As a result, I do try to keep my > > client's systems up to date. The downside is that some of the patches > > require a system reboot, and there goes the uptime record. Once every > > six months or so isn't asking too much, though I have let systems run > > for a year+ before getting around to do the patch updates. > > Reboot: A good chance to run AUTOGEN! > > > > > I also can't recall a VMS patch ever breaking any applications. They > > have at times improved performance, so as a general rule I'd say > > there's no reason to avoid keeping the systems up-to-date as long as > > the occasional reboot isn't a factor. (And not all patches require a > > reboot.) > > I've never had anything broken by one, either. > > AEF patches sometimes include new things backported from the current version. There are occasionally issues with patches so it is important to test on a non-production system if at all possible. Read the release notes in the patch announcement. The UPDATE kits are collections of previously released patches and are released quarterly according to a previously announced schedule. You may wish to consider a patch policy around those, ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:36:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Rob Subject: Re: php with osu 3.10a and openvms 8.3 Message-ID: <97498c8b-0588-494d-aeaa-7bcd9b501b9c@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com> On May 31, 2:49=A0pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > > > > > > > In article <48409e11$0$90276$14726...@news.sunsite.dk>, =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q= ?Arne_Vajh=3DF8j?=3D writes: > >> Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > >>> In article , Chuck Aaron writes: > >>>> Will PHP run on OpenVMS 8.3 with the OSU 3.10a > >>>> webserver or will PHP require CSWS? > >>> You can download PHP from the CSWS website, install and run PHP. =A0 > >>> MOD_PHP won't work with OSU, but you can set up a presentation script = for > >>> .PHP pages that runs the PHP interpreter. > >> But still PHP 4.3.10 that is very old and not supported > >> any more by PHP development ? > > > Yes, last I looked. =A0I'd love to hear that HP plans an update and when= the > > date for that would be, but I haven't heard anything. > > > (It still works fine, and so far has met the needs of my site, but it wo= uld > > be very nice to get a VMS track in the main development stream, like Per= l has.) > > It obviously works as well as it has always done. > > And for a reasonable protected intranet environment, then it will > be fine for 10 years. > > But PHP has announce that there will be no more security fixes > after 8-AUG-2008. And after that it would be questionable whether > it should be used for general internet access. > > Unless ofcourse someone see security patches as a problem in which > case it would be a great product after that. =A0:-) > > Arne- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - HP is working on a PHP v5 release, hopefully available towards the end of this year. They haven't said anything officially, but a few of us on the VMS ITRC have been pushing them to port PHP 5 over. Rob. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 08:48:17 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: php with osu 3.10a and openvms 8.3 Message-ID: <00A7A7DB.31651FB6@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> In article <97498c8b-0588-494d-aeaa-7bcd9b501b9c@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>, Rob writes: > >HP is working on a PHP v5 release, hopefully available towards the end >of this year. They haven't said anything officially, but a few of us >on the VMS ITRC have been pushing them to port PHP 5 over. Excellent news! -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:15:38 +0930 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: php with osu 3.10a and openvms 8.3 Message-ID: Rob wrote: > On May 31, 2:49 pm, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > >>Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>In article <48409e11$0$90276$14726...@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >>> >>>>Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: >>>> >>>>>In article , Chuck Aaron writes: >>>>> >>>>>>Will PHP run on OpenVMS 8.3 with the OSU 3.10a >>>>>>webserver or will PHP require CSWS? >>>>> >>>>>You can download PHP from the CSWS website, install and run PHP. >>>>>MOD_PHP won't work with OSU, but you can set up a presentation script for >>>>>.PHP pages that runs the PHP interpreter. >>>> >>>>But still PHP 4.3.10 that is very old and not supported >>>>any more by PHP development ? >> >>>Yes, last I looked. I'd love to hear that HP plans an update and when the >>>date for that would be, but I haven't heard anything. >> >>>(It still works fine, and so far has met the needs of my site, but it would >>>be very nice to get a VMS track in the main development stream, like Perl has.) >> >>It obviously works as well as it has always done. >> >>And for a reasonable protected intranet environment, then it will >>be fine for 10 years. >> >>But PHP has announce that there will be no more security fixes >>after 8-AUG-2008. And after that it would be questionable whether >>it should be used for general internet access. >> >>Unless ofcourse someone see security patches as a problem in which >>case it would be a great product after that. :-) >> >>Arne- Hide quoted text - >> >>- Show quoted text - > > > HP is working on a PHP v5 release, hopefully available towards the end > of this year. They haven't said anything officially, but a few of us > on the VMS ITRC have been pushing them to port PHP 5 over. With open source you'll never get the required quality or timeliness until the user community kicks-in (cf. Python). PPO. And it's all well-and-good for the body corporate to mandate vendor supported releases but these are more often same ones with data centres packed full of blades running Linux distros. Go figure. > Rob. -- Like computer viruses, successful mind viruses will tend to be hard for their victims to detect. If you are the victim of one, the chances are that you won't know it, and may even vigorously deny it. [Richard Dawkins; Viruses of the Mind] ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jun 2008 08:45:26 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Python on VMS status ? Message-ID: In article , clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > What is the current status of Python on VMS ? > > Is the existing port considered to be robust and production ready ? > > Are there any plans for HP to do a Perl/PHP style official port ? I've never had any problems with the Python on VMS that I grabbed a few months ago. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 10:16:44 -0700 From: Marty Kuhrt Subject: Re: Python on VMS status ? Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: >> What is the current status of Python on VMS ? >> >> Is the existing port considered to be robust and production ready ? >> >> Are there any plans for HP to do a Perl/PHP style official port ? > > I've never had any problems with the Python on VMS that I grabbed > a few months ago. > Is there a mod_python for CSWS (Apache) readily available? I'm interested in trying out the Python stuff JFP has done, but I'm using Apache. I'd rather find a mod_python than learn a new web server. ------------------------------ Date: 02 Jun 2008 11:54:03 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <4843df5b$0$25043$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <48434386$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >{...snip...} >Try: > >cacls /? > >and see if it is there. Administrator@XXXX - $ cacls /? Displays or modifies access control lists (ACLs) of files CACLS filename [/T] [/M] [/S[:SDDL]] [/E] [/C] [/G user:perm] [/R user [...]] [/P user:perm [...]] [/D user [...]] filename Displays ACLs. /T Changes ACLs of specified files in the current directory and all subdirectories. /M Changes ACLs of volumes mounted to a directory /S Displays the SDDL string for the DACL. /S:SDDL Replaces the ACLs with those specified in the SDDL string (not valid with /E, /G, /R, /P, or /D). /E Edit ACL instead of replacing it. /C Continue on access denied errors. /G user:perm Grant specified user access rights. Perm can be: R Read W Write C Change (write) F Full control /R user Revoke specified user's access rights (only valid with /E). /P user:perm Replace specified user's access rights. Perm can be: N None R Read W Write C Change (write) F Full control /D user Deny specified user access. Wildcards can be used to specify more that one file in a command. You can specify more than one user in a command. Abbreviations: CI - Container Inherit. The ACE will be inherited by directories. OI - Object Inherit. The ACE will be inherited by files. IO - Inherit Only. The ACE does not apply to the current file/directory. Administrator@XXXX - $ cd /etc Administrator@XXXX /etc $ cacls sshd_config C:\cygwin\etc\sshd_config Everyone:(special access:) READ_CONTROL SYNCHRONIZE FILE_GENERIC_READ FILE_READ_DATA FILE_READ_EA FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES XXXX\None:(special access:) READ_CONTROL SYNCHRONIZE FILE_GENERIC_READ FILE_READ_DATA FILE_READ_EA FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES XXXX\sshd_server:(special access:) STANDARD_RIGHTS_ALL DELETE READ_CONTROL WRITE_DAC WRITE_OWNER SYNCHRONIZE STANDARD_RIGHTS_REQUIRED FILE_GENERIC_READ FILE_GENERIC_WRITE FILE_READ_DATA FILE_WRITE_DATA FILE_APPEND_DATA FILE_READ_EA FILE_WRITE_EA FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES FILE_WRITE_ATTRIBUTES Administrator@XXXX /etc $ cacls sshd_config /G Administrator:FCWR {repeats /? output and then} Invalid arguments. I tried every conceivable variation F, C, W, and R too. Same results. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:43:22 +0100 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > [...snip...] > Administrator@XXXX - > $ cd /etc > > Administrator@XXXX /etc > $ cacls sshd_config > C:\cygwin\etc\sshd_config Everyone:(special access:) > > [... more snips...] > > Administrator@XXXX /etc > $ cacls sshd_config /G Administrator:FCWR > {repeats /? output and then} > Invalid arguments. > > I tried every conceivable variation F, C, W, and R too. Same results. I never ever in my wildest dreams thought I'd be answering a Weendoze question ... ;-) Brian, I think you only need to: $ cacls sshd_config /G Administrator:F The "F" is full control and supersedes all the others. HTH. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jun 2008 08:53:24 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: In article <4842be88$0$15167$607ed4bc@cv.net>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > Hi, > > I need to access a PeeCee running Weendoze 2003. ssh has been installed > and it is running on port 22. I want to change this to another port. I > need to edit the sshd_config file and change this but the file is read- > only AFAICT. Is there any equivalent to DIRECTORY/SECURITY or ls -aFl in > Weendoze and a SET PROTECTION or SECURITY or chmod/chown? > Right click on the file icon and work your way down through the pop-ups (may be set read-only on the top level). ------------------------------ Date: 02 Jun 2008 15:26:55 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <4844113f$0$11612$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , "R.A.Omond" writes: >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> [...snip...] >> Administrator@XXXX - >> $ cd /etc >> >> Administrator@XXXX /etc >> $ cacls sshd_config >> C:\cygwin\etc\sshd_config Everyone:(special access:) >> >> [... more snips...] > > >> Administrator@XXXX /etc >> $ cacls sshd_config /G Administrator:FCWR >> {repeats /? output and then} >> Invalid arguments. >> >> I tried every conceivable variation F, C, W, and R too. Same results. > >I never ever in my wildest dreams thought I'd be answering a Weendoze >question ... ;-) > >Brian, I think you only need to: > >$ cacls sshd_config /G Administrator:F > >The "F" is full control and supersedes all the others. > >HTH. That did work. However, all of the other 'security' items originally shown by 'cacls sshd_config' have gone missing. I hope that doesn't hork access for the sshd server trying to read the file when it starts. If so, I will be _COMPLETELY_ shut out. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: 02 Jun 2008 15:28:46 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <484411ad$0$11612$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >In article <4842be88$0$15167$607ed4bc@cv.net>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> Hi, >> >> I need to access a PeeCee running Weendoze 2003. ssh has been installed >> and it is running on port 22. I want to change this to another port. I >> need to edit the sshd_config file and change this but the file is read- >> only AFAICT. Is there any equivalent to DIRECTORY/SECURITY or ls -aFl in >> Weendoze and a SET PROTECTION or SECURITY or chmod/chown? >> > > Right click on the file icon and work your way down through the > pop-ups (may be set read-only on the top level). Bob, This PeeCee is over a thousand miles away. I have ssh access only; hence, the request for CLI commands to access the sshd_config file. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 16:47:58 +0100 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , "R.A.Omond" writes: >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> >>> [...snip...] >>> Administrator@XXXX - >>> $ cd /etc >>> >>> Administrator@XXXX /etc >>> $ cacls sshd_config >>> C:\cygwin\etc\sshd_config Everyone:(special access:) >>> >>> [... more snips...] >>> >>> Administrator@XXXX /etc >>> $ cacls sshd_config /G Administrator:FCWR >>> {repeats /? output and then} >>> Invalid arguments. >>> >>> I tried every conceivable variation F, C, W, and R too. Same results. >> I never ever in my wildest dreams thought I'd be answering a Weendoze >> question ... ;-) >> >> Brian, I think you only need to: >> >> $ cacls sshd_config /G Administrator:F >> >> The "F" is full control and supersedes all the others. >> >> HTH. > > That did work. However, all of the other 'security' items originally shown > by 'cacls sshd_config' have gone missing. I hope that doesn't hork access > for the sshd server trying to read the file when it starts. If so, I will > be _COMPLETELY_ shut out. Brian, I ain't no Weendoze expert (heck I hate Weendoze just as much as you do, believe me ...). cacls sshd_config /E /G Everyone:R might be what you want. The /E says don't mess about with existing access rules. A nervous HTH ... ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jun 2008 13:15:43 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <5TAicLzBlfkj@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > Right click on the file icon and work your way down through the > pop-ups (may be set read-only on the top level). Oops, read/write error from grey matter. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jun 2008 19:19:52 +0200 From: eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: [GS1280] how to set serial number Message-ID: <484447d8$1@news.langstoeger.at> We had a problem with setting the serial# of a GS1280 and I thought I ask here before I dig into it (or let HPQ do it ;-): >>>SET SYS_SERIAL_NUM AYxxxxxxx sys_serial_num protected from attempted operation TIA -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.307 ************************