INFO-VAX Tue, 10 Jun 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 322 Contents: Re: Configuring an MSL fibre NSR via serial port Enterprise bragging rights Re: Enterprise bragging rights Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 alpha Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 alpha Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 a Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 alp Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 alpha Re: Instructions setting up reverse LAT port on RSX11 Re: NCL question Re: OT: What filtering does Hotmail use? Re: OT: What filtering does Hotmail use? Re: Pictures from bootcamp? Re: Remembering APL-11 (WAS: Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals) Manuals Re: Remembering APL-11 (WAS: Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals) Re: Remembering APL-11 (WAS: Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals) Re: Remembering APL-11 (WAS: Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals) Re: Remembering APL-11 (WAS: Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals) Re: TCPIP sequence number question Re: TCPIP sequence number question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:31:37 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: Configuring an MSL fibre NSR via serial port Message-ID: <6Fe3k.2073$s77.53@bignews3.bellsouth.net> It would be cheaper to just buy the cable ! David -- David B Turner ============================================= Island Computers US Corp PO Box 86 Tybee GA 31328 Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 Email: dturner@islandco.com International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 Fax: 912 786 8505 Web: www.islandco.com ============================================= "David J Dachtera" wrote in message news:484C505B.B51171C4@spam.comcast.net... > "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote: >> >> 300576-001 >> This is the cable fyi for the MSL >> Just looked it up > > How much for your time to trace out the cable and post a pinout? > > D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:37:31 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Enterprise bragging rights Message-ID: <484ddbef$0$12298$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> For those of you who think that VMS has a lot of "enterprise" bragging rights.. http://www.vaxination.ca/wwdc_1.jpg Looks like Apple isn't affraid to discuss with whom is it working in terms of features for its software. And when you consider some of the features they are delivering: http://www.vaxination.ca/wwdc_2.jpg That is a lot of new stuff **** FOR A PHONE **** Am not even yet to the OS-X section of the keynote. Meanwhile, VMS is left with "what happens in bootcamp stays in bootcamp" and rumours that the USA military still have a few VMS boxes left. Imagine is Sue had been allowed to tape the keynote at bootcamp and publish it on the VMS web site (hopefully in a non-microsoft format). (more to come) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:52:58 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Enterprise bragging rights Message-ID: <484ddf8e$0$12342$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> OK, this is just too good to pass up: Jobs presented an "enterprise" video showing various corporations adopting the iphone as enterprise mobile platform. Can you guess who was one of those "corporations" that was interviewed ? Yes sir, the USA military agreed to be on video and discuss its use of the iphone, especially its security features. So to those who say that nobody could get the military to go on video to brag about VMS, I guess Apple shows that when there is a will, there is a way. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:41:57 -0700 (PDT) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 alpha Message-ID: <825b46f9-fbf3-4d8a-8fb3-001ed9d514a5@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Jun 9, 4:52 pm, "Robert Jarratt" wrote: > wrote in message > > news:90d9d32c-ee99-435b-84d9-c46d9701268f@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > how many other OS's can claim that? > > > well we can can on OpenVMS 7.1 > > > and we have another 4 years planned on it ... > > I suspect this might cause some debate, but frankly I don't think this > proves anything other than that malware authors do not see VMS as a > worthwhile target, because they would profit very little from attacking it. > Don't get me wrong, though, I love VMS. > > Regards > > Rob and just how would they achieve anything with proper security set up? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:42:44 -0700 (PDT) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 alpha Message-ID: <49b25dfe-9960-4be6-8617-a87cea9bf210@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Jun 9, 5:36 pm, Michael Kraemer wrote: > ultra...@gmail.com schrieb: > > > how many other OS's can claim that? > > almost any non-Windoze OS, > so what's the point ? I said virus free, but if I also said cert free, then you would have a bit of a problem making the assertion you just did ... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:43:41 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 a Message-ID: ultradwc@gmail.com schrieb: > On Jun 9, 5:36 pm, Michael Kraemer wrote: > >>ultra...@gmail.com schrieb: >> >> >>>how many other OS's can claim that? >> >>almost any non-Windoze OS, >>so what's the point ? > > > I said virus free, but if I also said cert free, but you didn't. Stick to what you said. > then you would > have a bit of a problem making the assertion you just did ... by this measure, AmigaOS, Atari TOS and maybe even MS-DOS 3.something would be among the most secure OSs. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:36:02 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 alp Message-ID: ultradwc@gmail.com schrieb: > how many other OS's can claim that? almost any non-Windoze OS, so what's the point ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 21:52:08 +0100 From: "Robert Jarratt" Subject: Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 Message-ID: wrote in message news:90d9d32c-ee99-435b-84d9-c46d9701268f@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > how many other OS's can claim that? > > well we can can on OpenVMS 7.1 > > and we have another 4 years planned on it ... > I suspect this might cause some debate, but frankly I don't think this proves anything other than that malware authors do not see VMS as a worthwhile target, because they would profit very little from attacking it. Don't get me wrong, though, I love VMS. Regards Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:51:33 +0100 From: "Robert Jarratt" Subject: Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 Message-ID: wrote in message news:825b46f9-fbf3-4d8a-8fb3-001ed9d514a5@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 9, 4:52 pm, "Robert Jarratt" wrote: >> wrote in message >> >> news:90d9d32c-ee99-435b-84d9-c46d9701268f@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >> >> > how many other OS's can claim that? >> >> > well we can can on OpenVMS 7.1 >> >> > and we have another 4 years planned on it ... >> >> I suspect this might cause some debate, but frankly I don't think this >> proves anything other than that malware authors do not see VMS as a >> worthwhile target, because they would profit very little from attacking >> it. >> Don't get me wrong, though, I love VMS. >> >> Regards >> >> Rob > > and just how would they achieve anything with proper security set up? That would be true if perfect security were possible. I don't think there is such a thing as perfect security. Regards Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:09:51 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Happy 10 years of continuous virus free computing on OpenVMS alpha 7.1 alpha Message-ID: Robert Jarratt wrote: > wrote in message > news:825b46f9-fbf3-4d8a-8fb3-001ed9d514a5@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... >> On Jun 9, 4:52 pm, "Robert Jarratt" wrote: >>> wrote in message >>> >>> news:90d9d32c-ee99-435b-84d9-c46d9701268f@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >>> >>>> how many other OS's can claim that? >>>> well we can can on OpenVMS 7.1 >>>> and we have another 4 years planned on it ... >>> I suspect this might cause some debate, but frankly I don't think this >>> proves anything other than that malware authors do not see VMS as a >>> worthwhile target, because they would profit very little from attacking >>> it. >>> Don't get me wrong, though, I love VMS. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Rob >> and just how would they achieve anything with proper security set up? > > That would be true if perfect security were possible. I don't think there is > such a thing as perfect security. Sure there is! But no one can use the system! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:11:05 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist Subject: Re: Instructions setting up reverse LAT port on RSX11 Message-ID: JCamCMKRNL skrev: > Sorry, A composition error on my part. I cut and pasted an old listing > of the file when I said the commands were: > > LCP> SET PORT TT121: /SERVER=ARIEL /PORT=PORT_7 > LCP> SET PORT TT122: /SERVER=ARIEL /PORT=PORT_8 > > They were indeed as follows: > > LCP> SET PORT TT137: /SERVER=ARIEL /PORT=PORT_7 > LCP> SET PORT TT140: /SERVER=ARIEL /PORT=PORT_8 > > Jeff Late getting into this, since I seldom read comp.os.vms... (try asking in a pdp-11 newsgrouop, and I promise I'll be faster. :-) ) I assume you have a system with TT0: to TT120: already in there, based on what you write. If that assumption is incorrect, please correct me. :-) There is really very little you need to do to get reverse LAT running in RSX. And you seem to already have covered it all. But to recapitulate: LCP START (in order to get LAT running, a requisite for all else) LCP CREATE (to actually create the devices you want to play with) LCP SET PORT TTn: /SERVER= /PORT= or if you prefer: LCP SET PORT TTn: /SERVER= /SERVICE= At this point, your terminal TTn: is set up for reverse LAT, and everything should work. You might want to set up a few attributes on that terminal, such as placing it as a /SLAVE, /NOECHO, width and rows, and all kind of stuff, but you get the point I think. There are not many reasons a copy of a file to that terminal should fail. One would be if the port on the terminal server isn't set to remote or shared access. Another would be if the "terminal" at the other end was offline, sent XOFF, or something similar. A third possibility would perhaps be if the remote terminal generated some data, which RSX then took as unsolicited input, and started a login process on the terminal. This last you'll be able to avoid by setting the terminal as /SLAVE Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 23:30:27 +0100 From: "pos" Subject: Re: NCL question Message-ID: <484daefd$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com> >> My favorite NCL command is flush. I never had a 'favorite NCL command'. Sounds like 'my favorite IRS bill'. I think we were one of the few sites to use DECDNS with namespaces, clerks and everyone other obscure Phase V headache. I rememember stalling the VMS DECNET V course in Reading once when the teacher said 'Of course, very few people use this particular feature' and three hands went up: 'Oh yes we do'. Sickly grin from the instructor, I thought he was going to ask us how it all worked. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:50:51 -0500 From: Michael Austin Subject: Re: OT: What filtering does Hotmail use? Message-ID: David Turner, Island Computers wrote: > STCTON10-1168104581.sdsl.bell.ca is the RDNS listing for your IP. > It should be weaverconsulting.ca > > > my guess is that his problem is the same as mine has always been. You are being bounced because you are using Dynamic DNS or have not had bell.ca add your static IP address as the RDNS. Most companies now reject anything that does not properly RDNS. Period. Not only does it make it harder for spammers, it screws the legitimate guys that want to maintain their own SMTP sites. Some ISP's (ATT, SBC, etc....) now block ANY outbound port 25 traffic forcing you to use their authenticated, SSL smtp server. Also to keep it on-topic, does anyone have something that we can use to send authenticated/ssl smtp traffic from VMSMail? I have phpmailer, but need to try to figure out how to add the ssl encryption piece. [Lost a lot of my programming skills, so explicit instructions always appreciated.] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:04:42 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: What filtering does Hotmail use? Message-ID: <484de24d$0$12280$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Michael Austin wrote: > my guess is that his problem is the same as mine has always been. You > are being bounced because you are using Dynamic DNS or have not had > bell.ca add your static IP address as the RDNS. bell won't do that, even for business customers. That is why smaller ISPs are now better for small/medium business. My ISP has grown over 5 fold since I started with them in 2004, mostly because they don't put in artificial restriction to differentiate their affordable offerings from their "enterprise" offerings as Bell does. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:13:27 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Pictures from bootcamp? Message-ID: <484dd64b$0$12272$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> William Webb wrote: > If anybody has pictures from bootcamp, please let me know. http://www.apple.com bottom left. You can click on it and watch the keynote address. There are 5200 attendees. Sold out, full house. Oh, sorry, wrong OS ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:59:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Galen Subject: Re: Remembering APL-11 (WAS: Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals) Manuals Message-ID: > A mechanical engineering lab at Lockheed Sunnyvale was data > matrices which needed various manipulations. I found a book in Make that, was _getting_ data matrices. The data was being produced by a machine that scanned high speed camera footage for a white mark in the frame and spit out a stream of punched cards based on the timing. The white mark was on the propeller shaft of an Aquila RPV in static test, filmed as the engine started up, ran for a while, and shut back down. I vaguely remember they were doing some kind of modal analysis (whatever that means): the lab's name was "Modalab" anyway. This was all so long ago that the details have grown quite fuzzy. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:12:32 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Remembering APL-11 (WAS: Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals) Message-ID: <484d744d$0$20595$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Galen wrote: > Just curious: Has anyone seen a copy of APL-11 media recently? Since > APL-11 dates from so long ago, "recently" can be taken to mean within > the last 10 or so years :-) $ search cd_contents.jan95 apl VAX, VAX ACMS, VAX APL, VAX BASIC, VAX BLISS-32, VAX C, VAX APL 4.0 020AA 5 [APL040] $ It wasn't in 2004 and 2006 distribution. I have 2 APL manuals: APL An Interactive Approach Second Edition Revised Reprinting Leonard Gilman and Allen J. Rose Copyright 1974. APL: une approche pratique Maurice Dalois Gouvernemenmt du Québec, Ministère de l'Éducation, Service Informatque copyright 1980. The second book (in french) was far better than the first one as a learning tool. Better organised, better descriptions. APL was one of the IT courses offered by many CEGEPs in québec (CEGEP is 2 years between high school and university). Most would dialup to Univesité de Montréal to get the APL stuff. Our school had 1 decwriter II and one VT-like terminal. This probably explains why the government sponsored the development of a french language book on APL. One of the big APL "timesharing" providers was Sharp based in Toronto Canada and was used heavily by insurance companies. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:43:52 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Remembering APL-11 (WAS: Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals) Message-ID: Galen wrote: > Just curious: Has anyone seen a copy of APL-11 media recently? Since > APL-11 dates from so long ago, "recently" can be taken to mean within > the last 10 or so years :-) > In the same box I found the TK50 with the VAX APL manuals, I also found a set of RX01 floppies labelled: "AS-5454B-BC, APL-11 V2.0 RT" with a manufacturing date of 14-May-1980. I don't know if the "RT" means "RT-11" or "run-time" or something else. Needless to say, I don't have a system to read these on. Any suggestions? -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32 Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: 9 Jun 2008 14:26:28 -0500 From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Subject: Re: Remembering APL-11 (WAS: Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals) Message-ID: In article , John Reagan writes: > > In the same box I found the TK50 with the VAX APL manuals, I also found > a set of RX01 floppies labelled: > > "AS-5454B-BC, APL-11 V2.0 RT" > > with a manufacturing date of 14-May-1980. > > I don't know if the "RT" means "RT-11" or "run-time" or something else. > > Needless to say, I don't have a system to read these on. Any suggestions? > Have you considered contacting the people at bitsavers to see if they are interested in including it among their archive ? Link: http://bitsavers.org/ Simon. -- Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:14:06 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Remembering APL-11 (WAS: Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals) Message-ID: Simon Clubley wrote: > Have you considered contacting the people at bitsavers to see if they > are interested in including it among their archive ? > > Link: > > http://bitsavers.org/ > > Simon. > I've been in contact with Bitsavers folks in the past for older documentation but not for this. For bits, looking at http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp11 they seem to have dectape/rl01/rk05/various magtape/and some paper tape. I don't see any RX01 archives (not to say they wouldn't take it). I've looked over at trailing-edge as well and didn't see an obvious home. -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32 Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:55:27 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist Subject: Re: TCPIP sequence number question Message-ID: JF Mezei skrev: > Ok, this isn't specifically VMS related but here it goes... And this is a little late in answering, but anyway... > Say I am sending TCP data packets with sequence numbers #10 #11 #12 #13 > #14 and #15. > > Someone meddles with my traffic and changes, while in transit, the > sequence number of the second packet from #11 to #789 > > How will the receiver behave upon receiving the packet with sequence > number #789 ? Will it wait a certain amount of time to see if the > packet #11 will arrive out of sequence before declaring #11 to be lost > and sending NAK to the sender ? The received should, assuming that #789 is outside the window, just toss the data and pretend it didn't see it. If the data is inside the window, it might be stored for later usage. > How long will it wait before declaring #11 to be lost at sea ? That depends. TCP/IP implementations can do this differently, but it is recommended that the average round trip time is measured, and that timeouts are set to about 2*rtt. But this is all done by the sender. There is no NAK capability in TCP/IP. > base on what I read, the recipient will send an ack confirming it has > received all data intact until/including #10. (instead of sending an > actual "I haven't received #11"). Correct. > Once the sender has realised the recipient hasn't received #11, will the > sender then resend #11 and all subsequent packets ? That depends on the implementation. It could do either. Since TCP uses a sliding window, a lot of data can be outstanding at the time of a retransmission. If all data after the data not acknowledged is resent or not is not defined. However, it might be wise to back off, and not immediately start retransmitting all data again. > With windowing, will the sender end up stopping transmission at one > point, waiting for an ack ? Or will the "sorry I didn,t get #11" > realisation reach the sender before the sender has finished sending all > packets permitted in the sliding window ? There is no NAK packet. TCP uses a sliding window to define which data can be sent and be outstanding before any ACK arrives. In addition, you also have a transmission window, which is used to do flow control. And this is normally all regulated by the amount of retransmissions you get. And TCP don't acknowledge all data. ACK to a certain sequence number implies that all data up until that sequence number is acked. The TCP flow control, congestion, retransmission, round trip calculation and back off algorithms are rather complex, and not easy to answer like this. > aka: will the data line become idle for some time, or will it remain > constantly in full use with packets flowing with retransmissions here > and there ? No, TCP tries to be smart and not fill the net with retransmissions. But there is definitely some leeway for implementors to do things as they see fit as well, so it's not always possible to give a straight answer. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:04:26 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: TCPIP sequence number question Message-ID: <484da9fe$0$12289$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Johnny Billquist wrote: > > That depends. TCP/IP implementations can do this differently, but it is > recommended that the average round trip time is measured, and that timeouts are > set to about 2*rtt. > > But this is all done by the sender. There is no NAK capability in TCP/IP. I've since used wireshark to trace packets. Found that at least OSX' stack, when it seens a missing packet in a sequence, immediatly start to ACK the previous packet again, until the missing packet is resent. (aka: multiple ACKs for the packet before the missing one). For the data I have seen, this happens well before the window fills up. I ended up reading and understanding 791 and 793 quite a bit. (but haven't seen the sliding window adjustements suggested by the RFcs in my traces). > There is no NAK packet. Based on what I have read/seen, sending multiple ACKs for packet #1 is tantamount to a NAK of packet 2. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.322 ************************