INFO-VAX Sat, 19 Jul 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 401 Contents: Re: "Network tape drive" for VMS Re: "Network tape drive" for VMS Re: "Network tape drive" for VMS Re: c. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Re: c. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Re: c. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Re: c. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Re: HPFMS025 Re: Non-CDE DECwindows on Itanium? Re: Question about quoting inside a string ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 2008 11:58:33 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: "Network tape drive" for VMS Message-ID: <4881d6e9$0$7321$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , Stephen Hoffman writes: > >I'm surprised no one has suggested a tape library or a loader, and/or a >big rack of cheap/slow/capacious archival disks. > >Such a library solves several different problems that can arise here. I picked up a used TZ877 for free. Not the faster DLT on the planet but suffices for my most of my needs. Someone must still change the tapes in the shuttle of the loader if this is to be use for this solution. Also, what is to stop the person on the remote side from using a tape that has already been used? BACKUP has safeguards but they can also be defeated. XROBOT (Media whatever it's called) leaves me pining for a quality piece of control software too! >The other question revolves around what the end users will be restoring, >and how often, and at what cost the convenience might come. > >There are various alternative archival solutions that may well be >applicable here, depending on the particular local requirements. >Centralized backup can be feasible, though there are often distributed >alternative around, as well. (And in most any approach, there are >various considerations...) > >Tapes, too, are somewhat problematic. Disks can be a better near-line >storage resource and for use in tiered archival processing; the boxes I >manage are using 750 gigabyte and terabyte disk spindles, and the 1.5 TB >drives have been announced and are coming on-line. (Tapes are having >trouble keeping up with disk capacities here.) The client backup tool >target for one workgroup is a terabyte spindle that deals with all of >the processing over wired or wireless, for instance. No operator input, >secured storage, but the end-users can restore their files. And don't we now have "virtual tape" a la LD? BACKUP to a big container could be made simpler with this ability as the users wouldn't need to be trained to use different backup schemes. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:12:24 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: "Network tape drive" for VMS Message-ID: <5rKdnZdq5t2NmB_VnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@comcast.com> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , Stephen Hoffman writes: >> I'm surprised no one has suggested a tape library or a loader, and/or a >> big rack of cheap/slow/capacious archival disks. >> >> Such a library solves several different problems that can arise here. > > I picked up a used TZ877 for free. Not the faster DLT on the planet but > suffices for my most of my needs. Someone must still change the tapes in > the shuttle of the loader if this is to be use for this solution. Also, > what is to stop the person on the remote side from using a tape that has > already been used? BACKUP has safeguards but they can also be defeated. > Any safeguard can be defeated. BACKUP/EXPIRATION= should keep people from inadvertently overwriting tapes. It can, of course, be overwritten but if someone is THAT determined to use THAT tape your only recourse may be to get a gun and shoot him! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:35:14 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: "Network tape drive" for VMS Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , Stephen Hoffman writes: >> I'm surprised no one has suggested a tape library or a loader, and/or a >> big rack of cheap/slow/capacious archival disks. > Someone must still change the tapes in > the shuttle of the loader if this is to be use for this solution. The old DLT loaders are far from the only options available here, and may or may not be sufficient for the particular (and unstated capacity) requirements here. Far larger DLT and Ultrium loaders and libraries are available. Some of the garden variety HP MSLs offer upwards of 96 terabytes, and various folks including HP and Sun has options that scale up into the petabyte range. > Also, > what is to stop the person on the remote side from using a tape that has > already been used? BACKUP has safeguards but they can also be defeated. And who in their right mind would allow a human at the BACKUP utility? I've met exactly one killer backup application over the years. The OpenVMS BACKUP utility isn't it. And I can and do use rsync for some tasks, but that too isn't it. Just because a substantial subset of the folks here in c.o.v. know how to use the cryptic UI that is the BACKUP utility doesn't imply that is a generally-available skill within the larger community of computer-using humans. In the general case, access to BACKUP and to the command prompt just won't end well, and won't scale well. Accordingly, this is where a CAPTIVE menu or GUI or web interface is used; to manage the loader or library or tape drive, and to keep the > XROBOT (Media whatever it's called) leaves me pining for a quality piece > of control software too! The state of the user interface in the existing environments here -- all the way up the stack -- is comparatively weak in general, yes. The Enterprise-oriented UIs in this area do seem to increasingly trail the industry norms. > And don't we now have "virtual tape" a la LD? BACKUP to a big container > could be made simpler with this ability as the users wouldn't need to be > trained to use different backup schemes. LDDRIVER LD-style virtual tapes (the LM devices that are available starting with Jur's V9 logical disk driver release) are certainly useful for specific contexts and applications, such as when presenting an interface that is expected by older tasks and older sequences. For testing BACKUP procedures, for instance. For tasks akin to those of a simh environment, too. Emulation aside, there are other ways to use modern storage hardware for archival purposes, rather than emulating traditional sequential-access storage. Here? Four and more recently now six terabyte four-slot disk arrays are the size of toasters, and HP and other vendors have far more massive arrays available. Why not use these disk arrays as, well, the gigantic disk arrays that they are? And with capacious disks being (due to speeds and feeds) slower and cheaper, what was once near-line via library or loader or tape library can potentially be fully on-line. NAS and SAN devices massively increase the permissible scale of disks and disk storage configurations, too, albeit with lower-speed interconnects. You're not nearly as limited with SAS and SATA as with some of the older interconnects, and NAS and SAN allow storage to span outwards yet further. And regardless of the use of LD/LM or libraries or loaders or of 1.5 terabyte disk spindles and arrays, or virtual tape libraries (VTLs; think "EVA virtual disk, but for tape storage"), you'd (still) want a menu or GUI here, as the same basic issues around allowing humans loose within the data archives remain. Even the most experienced can make a boo-boo. Here? Some near-line storage and a standard magazine loader or three might work. Without some idea of how large a media library or how deep an archive might be planned, more specific suggestions aren't easily feasible. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:17:00 +0200 From: Johnny Billquist Subject: Re: c. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Message-ID: <4881B10C.6050305@update.uu.se> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG skrev: > In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>> >>>> (The Thunderbird Mail Client will not allow me to paste the Copyright >>>> symbol into this message.) >>> © >>> >>> This is thunderbird on a Mac. >>> >>> Also is it really necessary to have © 2008 when the "2008" is already >>> included in the date of the message ? >>> >>> Why not just >>> >>> © . >> >> >> You do it in accordance with the requirements of US Copyright law if you >> want copyright protection. My understanding is that your copyright >> notice must include the word "Copyright" or the copyright symbol or both >> plus the year in which the copyright commences (usually the date of >> first publication) > > http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000401----000-.html Please note the operative word "may" in the first paragraph. Jeez. Haven't you heard of the Berne convention? The US finally ratified it in 1989, after which the case is that you have the copyright of all things you write. Wether you say so or not. No notice of copyright is required. If you want to, you can surely add one, but from a legal point of view, it makes no difference. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_Implementation_Act_of_1988 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_convention Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jul 2008 12:14:52 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: c. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Message-ID: <4881dabc$0$7321$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <4881B10C.6050305@update.uu.se>, Johnny Billquist writes: >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG skrev: >> In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>> JF Mezei wrote: >>>> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>>> >>>>> (The Thunderbird Mail Client will not allow me to paste the Copyright >>>>> symbol into this message.) >>>> © >>>> >>>> This is thunderbird on a Mac. >>>> >>>> Also is it really necessary to have © 2008 when the "2008" is already >>>> included in the date of the message ? >>>> >>>> Why not just >>>> >>>> © . >>> >>> >>> You do it in accordance with the requirements of US Copyright law if you >>> want copyright protection. My understanding is that your copyright >>> notice must include the word "Copyright" or the copyright symbol or both >>> plus the year in which the copyright commences (usually the date of >>> first publication) >> >> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000401----000-.html > >Please note the operative word "may" in the first paragraph. > >Jeez. Haven't you heard of the Berne convention? >The US finally ratified it in 1989, after which the case is that you have the >copyright of all things you write. Wether you say so or not. >No notice of copyright is required. >If you want to, you can surely add one, but from a legal point of view, it makes >no difference. I have. I've heard of the UDHR but apparently much of the world has not. ;) "may" Title 17 Ch. 4 Sec. 401 (a) "...a notice of copyright as provided by this section may be placed on pub- licly distributed copies from which the work can be visually perceived..." Read on though to Title 17 Ch. 4 Sec. 401 (d) "If a notice of copyright in the form and position specified by this sec- tion appears on the published copy or copies to which a defendant in a copyright infringement suit had access, then no weight shall be given to such a defendant's interposition of a defense based on innocent infringe- ment in mitigation of actual or statutory damages, except as provided in the last sentence of section 504 (c)(2)." -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:05:10 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: c. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Message-ID: <488210ee$0$1838$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Johnny Billquist wrote: > Jeez. Haven't you heard of the Berne convention? > The US finally ratified it in 1989, after which the case is that you have the > copyright of all things you write. Wether you say so or not. > No notice of copyright is required. > If you want to, you can surely add one, but from a legal point of view, it makes > no difference. There is an issue of identifying the onwer of the post however. There are many places on the web that archive usenet in ways where the identidy of the poster is masked or hidden or made unverifying due to headers not being available. Having identity embedded in the text ensures the owner remains dentified. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:06:50 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: c. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Message-ID: <48821152$0$1838$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Mr VAXman, does this mean that we must now break usenet rules because we must now quote your entire posts including the disclaimer when responding to you (instead of quoting only relevant text) ???? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:58:27 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: HPFMS025 Message-ID: <35d1ad9b-8403-4e8c-929c-9acff4793fc3@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On 19 Jul, 06:51, "Richard Maher" wrote: > 2.*5*? Wow, new functionality release? :-) > > Cheers Richard Maher > > wrote in message > > news:206c3e85-5d6e-4c34-a691-ab47d89872c4@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... FMS 2.5 was first shipped in Feb 2005. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:03:05 +0200 From: zembla7 Subject: Re: Non-CDE DECwindows on Itanium? Message-ID: <48821e4a$0$4774$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Michael Moroney wrote: > Can you use the old style (like what's still used on a VAX) DECwindows > environment on an Itanic running VMS V8.3? Edit sys$manager:DECW$PRIVATE_APPS_SETUP.COM $ ! DCL global symbols: $ ! $ ! - The desktop to start (New Desktop or DECwindows Desktop) (Alpha or IA64) $ ! SYMBOL = DECW$START_NEW_DESKTOP $ ! VALUES = True or False $ ! DEFAULT = True (can be changed in the installation procedure) and add the line $ decw$start_new_desktop == "false" ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jul 2008 11:46:14 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Question about quoting inside a string Message-ID: <4881d406$0$7321$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <48813EEF.4E6DFDAB@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: >Bob Koehler wrote: >> >> JF Mezei wrote: >> > I need to produce the following: >> > >> > $im_convert temp.gif - >> > -crop 240x300+237+1 - >> > -font Helvetica-Bold -pointsize 20 - >> > -draw "fill black text 300,280 'value' " temp.jpg >> > >> >> I think this will work, assuming value is a string: >> >> $im_convert temp.gif - >> -crop 240x300+237+1 - >> -font Helvetica-Bold -pointsize 20 - >> -draw "fill black text 300,280 " + value + " " temp.jpg >> >> But if it doesn't, then this: >> >> $temp = "fill black text 300,280 " + value + " " >> $im_convert temp.gif - >> -crop 240x300+237+1 - >> -font Helvetica-Bold -pointsize 20 - >> -draw 'temp temp.jpg > >Almost there. One last refinement: > >$temp = "fill black text 300,280 '" + value + "'" >$im_convert temp.gif - > -crop 240x300+237+1 - > -font Helvetica-Bold -pointsize 20 - > -draw "''temp'" temp.jpg > >....ought to do it. Why not: $ value := "'"+value+"'" and then JF's original command? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.401 ************************