INFO-VAX Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 499 Contents: Re: Current status? RE: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do dodo Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do dodo Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do dodo Re: Intermittent RWSCS state Re: Intermittent RWSCS state Re: Intermittent RWSCS state RE: Loose Cannon-dian Re: Loose Cannon-dian Re: Loose Cannon-dian Re: Loose Cannon-dian (was: Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS) Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours RE: Pipe search of command procedure log file containing pipe search command. co ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Sep 2008 12:54:13 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Current status? Message-ID: <6isinlFavs0U1@mid.individual.net> In article , John Santos writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article , >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> >>>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> >>>>In article , >>>> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>>> >>>>>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>In article , >>>>>> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In article , >>>>>>>> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>In article <7h%vk.609$393.335@trnddc05>, John Santos writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>In article , >>>>>>>>>>> helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>In article , >>>>>>>>>>>>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= >>>>>>>>>>>>writes: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Yup. I think that many of the problems arise because MUAs use the same >>>>>>>>>>protocol (SMTP) and port (25) to send mail to MTAs as MTAs use to relay >>>>>>>>>>mail to each other. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Modern MTAs can be configured to allow mail clients to submit mail to them on >>>>>>>>>the mail submission port (port 587) rather than port 25. See RFC 2476 >>>>>>>>>http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2476.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>What does this buy you? You would still need to know who your MTA is >>>>>>>>andc it would still need to be willing to accept email from you. It is >>>>>>>>all the silly little notification apps that wree brought up here as >>>>>>>>justification for allowing anybody to use port 25. They have no builtin >>>>>>>>method of authenticating so the port number used changes nothing. I >>>>>>>>certainly would not accept email on my MTA from someone on port 587 that >>>>>>>>I would not also accept on port 25. The purpose of port 587 sand RFC >>>>>>>>2476 is noto to control SPAM it is to make sure outgoing email meets >>>>>>>>the proper formating requoirements of the other RFC's. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On the other hand MTAs talk to MUAs (when delivering >>>>>>>>>>mail) using either of 2 different protocols (that I know of), POP3 on >>>>>>>>>>port 110 and IMAP on port 143. (I don't think anything does POP2 on >>>>>>>>>>port 109 any more.) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Logically there are three parties involved not two. >>>>>>>>>MTA, MUA and Message store. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Not sure what you make as differnt with "Message store". Unless you >>>>>>>>are separating the guy MTA from the machine that runs POP or IMAP. >>>>>>>>I don't see that as necessarily being a separate Email function although >>>>>>>>it is possible and may even have some utility on a big enough system. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The MTA delivers mail to another MTA or to a message store. >>>>>>>>>The MUA originates mail and sends it to a MTA. >>>>>>>>>Mail clients generally incorporate the above MUA functionality together with >>>>>>>>>the ability to display and manipulate mail in the message store. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>POP and IMAP are protocols used to access and manipulate the message store. >>>>>>>>>They are NOT used to deliver mail to the message store. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Agreed, but the "Message Store" is not necessarily even a part of the >>>>>>>>Email system and I don't believe it has ever been considered by IETF. >>>>>>>>I have users who use NFS to read their email. Does that make NFS an >>>>>>>>Email Protocol, too? And, of course, Wessage Store is also irrelevant >>>>>>>>to the problem of how to get the email system to be more immune to SPAM. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Note. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The SMTP servers which come with the TCPIP stacks (TCPWARE, MULTINET or TCPIP >>>>>>>>>SERVICES/UCX) are NOT fully fledged modern MTAs. For that you would need either >>>>>>>>>PMDF or MX. >>>>>>>>>( >>>>>>>>> PMDF is a commercial product but is available free for hobbyist use. >>>>>>>>> MX is now an open-source free product see >>>>>>>>> http://www.madgoat.com/ >>>>>>>>> However I'm not aware of anyone currently continuing development of MX. >>>>>>>>>) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Maybe so, but if people played by the rules, basic SMTP is more than adequate >>>>>>>>to the task. If ISP's blocked port 25 for all machines in their domain other >>>>>>>>than their MTA I would need to filter incoming ports on my end. And RBL's >>>>>>>>would rapidly become redundant. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sadly, we are forced to spend a lot of time effort and technology trying >>>>>>>>to, once again, solve a social problem. A social solution would work a >>>>>>>>lot better. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Perhaps it would. But where would you get a "social solution"? How >>>>>>>would you implement it? How would you deal with the anti-social creeps >>>>>>>who "zombie" a PC or two or twenty and use them to pump spam into the >>>>>>>net? Hint: you will NEVER get the liberals to agree to the death >>>>>>>penalty! Hell, you can even spank a misbehaving child any longer! >>>>>> >>>>>>Like I said, I have been over this a half-dozen tiems already. All that >>>>>>is needed already exists. It takes only administrative changes (which is >>>>>>why I said it would require more effort on the part of admins). If you >>>>>>are truly interested, email me and I will explain it to you. Or, if >>>>>>others actually express interest I will post it here again. But I >>>>>>expect most here are not in the least bit interested. >>>>>> >>>>>>bill >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>My ISP has a spam filter effective enough that spam is not a problem for >>>>>me! I get the occasional "401 scam" but that's about all. >>>> >>>>And how many messages have you not receieved because of their SPAM filter? >>>>False Positives are at least as bad a problem as False Negatives. And for >>>>a business, they can be worse. >>>> >>> >>>If I did not receive a message, it's unlikely that I would be aware of >>>it except if it came from family or friends and they inquired if I had >>>received it or complained about my failure to reply. >> >> >> Which is the point of the question. Agressive SPAM filtering sounds nice, >> but how do you know the rate of False Positives? Answer: you don't. >> >> >>>I do get mail from PC Connection, CDW, HP, Amazon, and a few other >>>commercial enterprises that I have some kind of relationship with. I >>>don't consider it spam and don't complain about it. >> >> >> Yes, but have you ever sent an email to a company and not received and >> an expected answer? I know people who complained regularly that their >> emails to Mentec were ignored. But the fact is, you don't know if they >> ever arrived in the first place. How many businesses can afford to just >> blow off customers because of aggressive SPAM filtering? >> >> >>>Comcast does seem to block 99.9+% of the people selling penis enlargers, >>>nude photographs, drugs without prescription, etc. >> >> >> While willingly supporting a network infrastructure that inundates the >> INTERNET with that garbage even though it is bad engineering at best >> and deliberate at worst. >> >> >>>>And, before you sing the praises of Comcast...... I just looked at my >>>>logs and I have several hundred rejected connection from comcast addresses >>>>and that is just since midnight. >>> >>>My router blocks any and all connections that did not originate from my >>>home network. If I check the router's logs, something I may do once or >>>twice a year, there is somebody attempting a connection every fifteen to >>>twenty seconds, twenty-four hours a day. Should I wish to receive >>>incoming connections, I believe that I can configure it to allow >>>specific originating addresses and ports but I can't think of any reason >>>why I should want to. That box only cost me about $80 US and it has >>>paid for itself several times over! >> >> >> Is this your home router? if it is, your ISP should never allow you >> to even see them. That's what thier fifrewall is for. basicly, you >> are paying for the infrastructure that provides the needed bandwidth >> for all this garbage. (Yes, even connection requests that get rejected >> consume bandwidth and CPU time that could be better spent doing real >> work!) Of course, if it's your business LAN then that's what your >> firewall is supposed to do. Now, if we could just get a lot of other >> people, Comcast among them to do this SPAM would just go away!! >> >> bill > > Even if an ISP blocks external port 25 (which their customers would > probably complain about if they are running their own inbound mail > servers, Every ISP I am aware of has a "no servers" in their residential AUP. You did actusally read the AUP before signing up with the ISP, right? > or just on principal :-), do any implement internal firewalls > that block one customer from trying to access another? What one Comcast customer does to another is their problem. When they let it out on the INTERNET, which they don't own, it's a different matter. > For Comcast > in particular, if I understand it correctly, each neighborhood is a > LAN on a virtual ethernet running on their cable, so there is not > even a router between you and the guy down the street. The only > place they could put a firewall is on the cable converter box that > converts the cable signal to ethernet in your house (the box commonly > called a "cable modem", though I don't think it is really a modem.) See above. > They could *also* firewall port 25 at their boundaries with other > ISPs and backbone providers, but that in itself would be > insufficient. (They might want to do it anyway to reduce their > internal traffic.) How would it be insufficient? It would prevent all their zombied machines from sending crap to every address in the users addressbook because they couldn't connect to them. You do know that's how at least 95% of the current SPAM is done, right? > > I'm on Verizon FIOS at home and I know the FIOS converter box > is a router and does NAT and some level of filtering, so inbound > port 25 traffic wouldn't make it to my LAN (or single computer > if that was all I had) unless I actively reconfigure it to pass > port 25 to a designated host (the default is "block"), but I > don't know if the same applies to Comcast cable modems. (FIOS > is point-to-point to the central office, like DSL, so local > "LAN" traffic isn't a separate issue like it would be with > Comcast.) In other words, blocking at the upstream router or > at my home would be equally effective with FIOS or DSL, but > for Comcast, only blocking at the home would catch everything. Inbound port 25 to your machine is not the source of SPAM, outbound from your machine, which has no business sending email to anyone but your local MTA for relaying, to the INTERNET in general is. It doesn't require blocking at the user level, just at the border of the email domain which is your ISP. > > As far as making SPAM go away, most of mine seems to come from > China, South America, and other places, and gets sent through > the legitimate ISP inbound mail server. Look up the addresses blocks sometime. They are zombied PC's just like here. If the Chinese or Brazilian ISP blocked them it, too, would go away. Some, especially from South America" is from sites that offer SPAM Services. Those are also easily blocked if they haven't already made one of the RBL's. > It would have to > be blocked at all those remote ISP's which are completely out > of control. RBL's do that now. And some people (myself included) block others that are particular problems that have not been RBLed yet. > And blocking port 25 inbound through the ISP's > perimeter to anything other than its MX-designated mail servers You can't do it from the inbound side. That's why it requires the ISP's doing on their outbound side. > would still do nothing about compromised hosts or deliberate > SPAMing by other customers of the same ISP going through its > outbound and then inbound mail servers. That would be the ISP's problem. As long as it does not affect the rest of the INTERNET it is up to them to solve their own problems. When they let it affect the rest of the INTERNET it is no longer just their problem and they have become bad net neighbors. Kind of like the guy who starts a pig farm next door to your house. > It would make the > offending hosts identifiable, but wouldn't stop them. The > ISP would have to notice and then take action (which many of > them do, but they have to send several hundred emails before > anything gets triggered.) Actually, no they don't. all they have to do is stop issuing the offending customer an IP address. When they call about their service being down you tell them fix their system or expect termination for violation of the AUP. > The SPAMers don't care. If they > get several hundred sent from each zombie before they get > stopped, they're happy, and the rest of us suffer. And if the ISP's blocked port 25 at their outbound firewall/router none of it would go anywhere because the zombied machines would get nothing but connection timeouts. > > As far as liberals coddling SPAMers, I'm a liberal and I > say "hang'em now. We can have the trial later!" I never said anything about liberals. I said the problem is primarily incompetents. This isn't rocket science!!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:50:10 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? Message-ID: <9D02E14BC0A2AE43A5D16A4CD8EC5A593ED5FEB137@GVW1158EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard B. Gilbert [mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:44 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? > [snip] > >> > >> Here is good example: (Windows *to* OpenVMS migration > testimonial)http://www.vista-control.com/itanium_success.htm > >> > >> "Los Alamos, February 15th. 2007 After implementing mission-critical > >> systems on Windows-based computers for many years, a customer > experienced > >> a virus in one of these systems that shut down production for two > days > >> while the infected systems were diagnosed, restored and tested. The > >> impact was that plant production was severely impacted at no small > cost. > >> > >> Despite internal opposition because of the established standard, > Vsystem > >> on HP Itanium servers running OpenVMS was chosen for the next system > to > >> be replaced. > >> > >> Very recently, this system was commissioned with no errors found and > >> with excellent performance - one of the smoothest installations > known. > >> The heightened scrutiny of this project has made this significant > >> success especially visible." > >> > >> [see rest of url] > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Kerry Main > >> Senior Consultant > >> HP Services Canada > >> Voice: 613-254-8911 > >> Fax: 613-591-4477 > >> kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > >> (remove the DOT's and AT) > >> > >> OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.- Hide quoted > text - > >> > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > OK that's one, and that's good. But I'd bet for every "one" there > are > > probably hundreds of Windows /Linux systems being sold. That's the > > reality that I see. > > Hundreds? Make that thousands or even tens of thousands. Yeah, but let's not get caught up with the "Windows / Linux is going to take over the world mentality. Platforms and OS's are constantly shifting. I remember when people would laugh at you if you mentioned that anything would ever replace WordPerfect or Lotus 1-2-3 as desktop standards. Same goes for servers. In the last 10 years, the world and media was very much into distributed strategies where stability, security were important, but not really if it meant switching platforms. The next 10 years is heading towards much more centralized computing with a massive focus on reducing IT costs, increased security and much higher levels of DR/HA. Part of reducing costs will be a much higher focus on radically consolidating these one OS, one bus App OS instances and VM's that are reproducing like rabbits and moving to more traditional centralized strategies. This is because the number of these OS instances is directly tied to staffing and staffing is 60-70% of most IT budgets today. OS costs and HW are just a small, small piece of the typical IT budget. So, one needs to ask is whether Windows / Linux are platforms for massive centralized computing or are there better platforms better suited for these roles. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:04:38 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? Message-ID: <7Zydnd894J9OlFTVnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d@comcast.com> Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Richard B. Gilbert [mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:44 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? >> > > [snip] > >>>> Here is good example: (Windows *to* OpenVMS migration >> testimonial)http://www.vista-control.com/itanium_success.htm >>>> "Los Alamos, February 15th. 2007 After implementing mission-critical >>>> systems on Windows-based computers for many years, a customer >> experienced >>>> a virus in one of these systems that shut down production for two >> days >>>> while the infected systems were diagnosed, restored and tested. The >>>> impact was that plant production was severely impacted at no small >> cost. >>>> Despite internal opposition because of the established standard, >> Vsystem >>>> on HP Itanium servers running OpenVMS was chosen for the next system >> to >>>> be replaced. >>>> >>>> Very recently, this system was commissioned with no errors found and >>>> with excellent performance - one of the smoothest installations >> known. >>>> The heightened scrutiny of this project has made this significant >>>> success especially visible." >>>> >>>> [see rest of url] >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Kerry Main >>>> Senior Consultant >>>> HP Services Canada >>>> Voice: 613-254-8911 >>>> Fax: 613-591-4477 >>>> kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom >>>> (remove the DOT's and AT) >>>> >>>> OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.- Hide quoted >> text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> OK that's one, and that's good. But I'd bet for every "one" there >> are >>> probably hundreds of Windows /Linux systems being sold. That's the >>> reality that I see. >> Hundreds? Make that thousands or even tens of thousands. > > Yeah, but let's not get caught up with the "Windows / Linux is going > to take over the world mentality. Platforms and OS's are constantly > shifting. > > I remember when people would laugh at you if you mentioned that > anything would ever replace WordPerfect or Lotus 1-2-3 as desktop > standards. > I still have, and use, both! They're old but they do what I need and they're already paid for. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:14:26 -0500 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? Message-ID: yyyc186 wrote: > LONDON (Reuters) - The London Stock Exchange (LSE:LSE.L - News) > suffered its worst systems failure in eight years on Monday, forcing > the world's third largest share market to suspend trading for about > seven hours and infuriating its users. > > Weren't there a whole bunch of adds a while back about how London when > with Windows and that worthless Oracle product for their new trading > engine? > So far the best write-up I've seen is here: http://blogs.computerworld.com/london_stock_exchange_suffers_net_crash This is a blog post by a ComputerWorld reporter (Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols) who claims to know people in London who know things about what actually happened, and the further claim is that a combination of .Net, SQL Server 2000, and Windows Server 2003 are not the proper ingredients of a real-time system. Shocking. The ensuing discussion is mostly noise, but eventually someone does say VMS would be better for this sort of thing. Vaughan-Nichols responds as follows: "Actually, if HP was doing anything with OpenVMS, I would recommend it. And, I might add, I personally dislike VMS for reasons too tedious to go into here. But, I'll be the first to admit that it stable as bedrock and has, with the right clustering, the necessary speed. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, HP would much rather you run HP/UX, Linux, or Server 2008 than OpenVMS." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 06:46:57 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveG Subject: Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? Message-ID: <87163d55-4314-427c-adff-fb402deadc9c@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Sep 10, 6:43=A0pm, yyyc186 wrote: > You guys didn't even bother digging up the USS Yorktown with your > research. =A0The one which got Microsoft banned from all navy projects > and forced Bill Gates to buy have a submarine manufacturer to try and > get his foot back in the door. I recall when the ship was dead in the water because of blue screenitis a few years back but I suspect Windows is back on board now. I remember seeing earlier this year on public TV a series called Carrier. While we were probably not taken everywhere on the vessel, we did see a lot of Windows here and there. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:56:19 -0700 From: Marty Kuhrt Subject: Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? Message-ID: >> >> I remember when people would laugh at you if you mentioned that >> anything would ever replace WordPerfect or Lotus 1-2-3 as desktop >> standards. >> > > I still have, and use, both! They're old but they do what I need and > they're already paid for. I'm still running Lotus 1-2-3 on a V6.2 VAX. Yeah, I'm that cutting edge! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:36:37 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Did Windows just cry "Uncle"? Message-ID: <00A7F793.7F592C11@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , Marty Kuhrt writes: >>> >>> I remember when people would laugh at you if you mentioned that >>> anything would ever replace WordPerfect or Lotus 1-2-3 as desktop >>> standards. >>> >> >> I still have, and use, both! They're old but they do what I need and >> they're already paid for. > >I'm still running Lotus 1-2-3 on a V6.2 VAX. Yeah, I'm that cutting edge! Wow! V6.2... that is cutting edge! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:58:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Lusardi Subject: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Message-ID: <6d4177f2-c55d-4438-866c-80237df088d2@s1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> Hello, I am looking for a way to implement Unix's tail command on the Vax. Thank you, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:01:27 +0100 From: "Richard Brodie" Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Message-ID: "Christopher Lusardi" wrote in message news:6d4177f2-c55d-4438-866c-80237df088d2@s1g2000pra.googlegroups.com... > I am looking for a way to implement Unix's tail command on the Vax. There is a tail implementation on the VMS Freeware CDs. Google will find you a copy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:16:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Lusardi Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Message-ID: On Sep 11, 8:01=A0am, "Richard Brodie" wrote: > There is a tail implementation on the VMS Freeware CDs. Ha, I am not allowed to do that! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:47:08 -0400 From: "Jilly" Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Message-ID: <48c93d72$0$21309$ec3e2dad@unlimited.usenetmonster.com> "Christopher Lusardi" wrote in message news:e4994777-f99e-44f8-a260-6e0e1083194e@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com... On Sep 11, 8:01 am, "Richard Brodie" wrote: > There is a tail implementation on the VMS Freeware CDs. Ha, I am not allowed to do that! Chris Why not? You just take this code and rewrite it yourself. There is a C based version. So you just pull the source listing up and type it into a DECterm window yurself. What are we missing here? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:02:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Lusardi Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Message-ID: On Sep 11, 8:47=A0am, sol gongola wrote: > Christopher Lusardi wrote: > > Hello, > > > =A0 I am looking for a way to implement Unix's tail command on the Vax. > > > Thank you, > > Chris > > type/tail=3D works for me on a vax running vms 7.2 This is not implemented on my system, neither is type /continuous/ interval... Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:21:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken.Fairfield@gmail.com Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Message-ID: On Sep 11, 9:02=A0am, Christopher Lusardi wrote: > On Sep 11, 8:47=A0am, sol gongola wrote: > > > Christopher Lusardi wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > =A0 I am looking for a way to implement Unix's tail command on the Va= x. > > > > Thank you, > > > Chris > > > type/tail=3D works for me on a vax running vms 7.2 > > This is not implemented on my system, neither is type /continuous/ > interval... Then perhaps you'd help us out here by telling us what *is* implemented on your system? I.e., what version of VMS are you running ($ Show System/NoProcess, or if *that* is also not available to you, how about you just cut-n-paste the first line of output from $ Show System which you *do* have...for sure!). Guessing on usenet gets old, fast. ;-( -Ken ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 2008 11:38:23 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Message-ID: In article <6d4177f2-c55d-4438-866c-80237df088d2@s1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, Christopher Lusardi writes: > Hello, > > I am looking for a way to implement Unix's tail command on the Vax. 1) use type/tail 2) download tail from gnu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:51:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Lusardi Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Message-ID: > On Sep 11, 9:21=A0am, Ken.Fairfi...@gmail.com wrote: > what version > of VMS are you running ($ Show System/NoProcess 5.5 Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:57:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Message-ID: <2addad3d-c1fe-49dc-8a33-ec9db7695b0c@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Sep 11, 11:49 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Christopher Lusardi wrote: > > On Sep 11, 8:47 am, sol gongola wrote: > >> Christopher Lusardi wrote: > >>> Hello, > >>> I am looking for a way to implement Unix's tail command on the Vax. > >>> Thank you, > >>> Chris > >> type/tail= works for me on a vax running vms 7.2 > > > This is not implemented on my system, neither is type /continuous/ > > interval... > > > Chris > > Then you need to describe your system in far greater detail. I forget > just when TYPE /TAIL was implemented but it has been around for a LONG > time. Maybe as far back as V5.5-2 and certainly by 6.2. Richard, 6.2 has it (just checked).However, the freeware tail (which I got as part of the UUCP implementation) is/was more forgiving of different file structures, etc. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:06:39 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005DFD53852574C1_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bob Gezelter wrote on 09/11/2008 12:57:38 PM: > On Sep 11, 11:49 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: > > Christopher Lusardi wrote: > > > On Sep 11, 8:47 am, sol gongola wrote: > > >> Christopher Lusardi wrote: > > >>> Hello, > > >>> I am looking for a way to implement Unix's tail command on the Vax. > > >>> Thank you, > > >>> Chris > > >> type/tail= works for me on a vax running vms 7.2 > > > > > This is not implemented on my system, neither is type /continuous/ > > > interval... > > > > > Chris > > > > Then you need to describe your system in far greater detail. I forget > > just when TYPE /TAIL was implemented but it has been around for a LONG > > time. Maybe as far back as V5.5-2 and certainly by 6.2. > > > Richard, > > 6.2 has it (just checked).However, the freeware tail (which I got as > part of the UUCP implementation) is/was more forgiving of different > file structures, etc. > > - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com Bob, R U recommendint the freeware over the "native" type/tail? -Norm --=_alternative 005DFD53852574C1_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Bob Gezelter <gezelter@rlgsc.com> wrote on 09/11/2008 12:57:38 PM:

> On Sep 11, 11:49 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilber...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > Christopher Lusardi wrote:
> > > On Sep 11, 8:47 am, sol gongola <s...@adldata.com> wrote:
> > >> Christopher Lusardi wrote:
> > >>> Hello,
> > >>>   I am looking for a way to implement Unix's tail command on the Vax.
> > >>> Thank you,
> > >>> Chris
> > >> type/tail= works for me on a vax running vms 7.2
> >
> > > This is not implemented on my system, neither is type /continuous/
> > > interval...
> >
> > > Chris
> >
> > Then you need to describe your system in far greater detail.  I forget
> > just when TYPE /TAIL was implemented but it has been around for a LONG
> > time.  Maybe as far back as V5.5-2 and certainly by 6.2.
>
>
> Richard,
>
> 6.2 has it (just checked).However, the freeware tail (which I got as
> part of the UUCP implementation) is/was more forgiving of different
> file structures, etc.
>
> - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com
Bob, R U recommendint the freeware over the "native" type/tail? -Norm --=_alternative 005DFD53852574C1_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:47:40 -0400 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do dodo Message-ID: <48c93de0$0$29501$607ed4bc@cv.net> Christopher Lusardi wrote: > Hello, > > I am looking for a way to implement Unix's tail command on the Vax. > > Thank you, > Chris type/tail= works for me on a vax running vms 7.2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:44:18 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do dodo Message-ID: Christopher Lusardi wrote: > Hello, > > I am looking for a way to implement Unix's tail command on the Vax. > > Thank you, > Chris I have a tail program in C. Do you have some place I can FTP it to? Or, if your version of VMS is reasonably up-to-date, you could simply use TYPE /TAIL. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:49:05 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: I don't have "type /tail=[n]" or "type /continuous" what do I do dodo Message-ID: Christopher Lusardi wrote: > On Sep 11, 8:47 am, sol gongola wrote: >> Christopher Lusardi wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I am looking for a way to implement Unix's tail command on the Vax. >>> Thank you, >>> Chris >> type/tail= works for me on a vax running vms 7.2 > > This is not implemented on my system, neither is type /continuous/ > interval... > > Chris Then you need to describe your system in far greater detail. I forget just when TYPE /TAIL was implemented but it has been around for a LONG time. Maybe as far back as V5.5-2 and certainly by 6.2. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:19:18 -0700 From: Marty Kuhrt Subject: Re: Intermittent RWSCS state Message-ID: John Santos wrote: > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: >> >> Marty Kuhrt wrote on 09/09/2008 12:38:20 PM: >> >> > Since the VAX in OP's question is probably only talking to the cluster >> > via its 10M network cable, it might be as simple as a that. >> >> No such luck. Talking on FDDI for SCS traffic. 10MB network for other. > > Are you certain? IIRC, the default cluster configuration is to enable all > SCS-capable circuits, and normally all the traffic would end up on the > fastest one (FDDI), but if there was a momentary failure or excessive > congestion on the FDDI, it might have failed over to the ethernet, thus > hitting the VAX's 10Mb bottleneck, and then never failed back. I > think the show cluster circuit counters should reveal if this has > happened. (I think the 2nd example shows circuit counters by circuit, > but not circuit names, so I can't tell which is which, though possibly a > cluster expert could.) > > There is a way to force it to use *only* the FDDI, and I think there's > a way to force to fail back to FDDI if for some reason it has failed > over to the Ethernet. > > HTH. Now that I think on it, was there a FDDI interconnect for VAXen? I vaguely remember that Nemonix was making an after market one, but I don't remember a "native" one. Of course, that doesn't mean too much, since I occasionally forget I have my glasses on my head. ;^) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:31:06 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Intermittent RWSCS state Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005ABC17852574C1_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Marty Kuhrt wrote on 09/11/2008 12:19:18 PM: > John Santos wrote: > > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: > >> > >> Marty Kuhrt wrote on 09/09/2008 12:38:20 PM: > >> > >> > Since the VAX in OP's question is probably only talking to the cluster > >> > via its 10M network cable, it might be as simple as a that. > >> > >> No such luck. Talking on FDDI for SCS traffic. 10MB network for other. > > > > Are you certain? IIRC, the default cluster configuration is to enable all > > SCS-capable circuits, and normally all the traffic would end up on the > > fastest one (FDDI), but if there was a momentary failure or excessive > > congestion on the FDDI, it might have failed over to the ethernet, thus > > hitting the VAX's 10Mb bottleneck, and then never failed back. I > > think the show cluster circuit counters should reveal if this has > > happened. (I think the 2nd example shows circuit counters by circuit, > > but not circuit names, so I can't tell which is which, though possibly a > > cluster expert could.) > > > > There is a way to force it to use *only* the FDDI, and I think there's > > a way to force to fail back to FDDI if for some reason it has failed > > over to the Ethernet. > > > > HTH. > > Now that I think on it, was there a FDDI interconnect for VAXen? I > vaguely remember that Nemonix was making an after market one, but I > don't remember a "native" one. Of course, that doesn't mean too much, > since I occasionally forget I have my glasses on my head. ;^) TurboChannel FDDI adapter and yes, Nemonix. Good memory after all. --=_alternative 005ABC17852574C1_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Marty Kuhrt <marty@spamloop.kuhrt.net> wrote on 09/11/2008 12:19:18 PM:

> John Santos wrote:
> > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Marty Kuhrt <marty@spamloop.kuhrt.net> wrote on 09/09/2008 12:38:20 PM:
> >>
> >>  > Since the VAX in OP's question is probably only talking to the cluster
> >>  > via its 10M network cable, it might be as simple as a that.
> >>
> >> No such luck.  Talking on FDDI for SCS traffic.  10MB network for other.
> >
> > Are you certain?  IIRC, the default cluster configuration is to enable all
> > SCS-capable circuits, and normally all the traffic would end up on the
> > fastest one (FDDI), but if there was a momentary failure or excessive
> > congestion on the FDDI, it might have failed over to the ethernet, thus
> > hitting the VAX's 10Mb bottleneck, and then never failed back.  I
> > think the show cluster circuit counters should reveal if this has
> > happened.  (I think the 2nd example shows circuit counters by circuit,
> > but not circuit names, so I can't tell which is which, though possibly a
> > cluster expert could.)
> >
> > There is a way to force it to use *only* the FDDI, and I think there's
> > a way to force to fail back to FDDI if for some reason it has failed
> > over to the Ethernet.
> >
> > HTH.
>
> Now that I think on it, was there a FDDI interconnect for VAXen?  I
> vaguely remember that Nemonix was making an after market one, but I
> don't remember a "native" one.  Of course, that doesn't mean too much,
> since I occasionally forget I have my glasses on my head.  ;^)
TurboChannel FDDI adapter and yes, Nemonix.  Good memory after all. --=_alternative 005ABC17852574C1_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:35:11 +0100 From: "Richard Brodie" Subject: Re: Intermittent RWSCS state Message-ID: "Marty Kuhrt" wrote in message news:r8Gdnf9Z3fma2FTVnZ2dnUVZ_q_inZ2d@speakeasy.net... > Now that I think on it, was there a FDDI interconnect for VAXen? There certainly were; there was the DEFQA. It was 100Mb Ethernet that Digital didnt sell for VAXen. Admittedly running lock traffic over Q-bus with disk IO over Fibre Channel seeems a bit of a mismatch. Assuming it's not big iron, that is. It could be a BI or XMI FDDI adapter. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:09:22 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Loose Cannon-dian Message-ID: <9D02E14BC0A2AE43A5D16A4CD8EC5A593ED5FEB144@GVW1158EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:billg999@cs.uofs.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:24 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Loose Cannon-dian > > In article , > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > In article , Michael Kraemer > writes: > >> > >> That's pretty much nowhere land. > >> Are there widely accepted certifications beyond > >> orange book ? > > > > Nowhere? C2, B1, ..., all were written by some folks based on > thier > > limited knowledge and thier specific needs. There are a lot of > other > > legitimate security concerns. > > > > For example, Windows got a C2 rating at one time, based on > > limitations like no network, no floppies, ... > > > > So what good is a system if you can't enter or retrive data? > > Those ratings are for operational systems. What need is there for a > network connection or floppies on a system running a power plant? > On the network piece, you are kidding, right? If not, do you understand how a power plant works? With all of its wireless devices, worker laptops, remote sensing devices etc. It's all one big "system". > One can take the system offline, connect a floppy, load and install > needed upgrades and then remove the floppy, recertify and return to > production as a C2 system. > > When one looks at things in terms of IS's instead of just a Windows > box this stuff makes a lot more sense. But then, when you are so > totally biased against MS, you become blind to reality. > > bill > > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three > wolves > billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Bill, you seem to feel that the Internet is the big issue from a security perspective and that with private networks, you do not need to worry so much. In fact, security analysts will state that 60+% of security issues are related to internal issues. Hence, even systems/desktops on private networks need to apply the security patches that come out each and every month for Windows and Linux. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 2008 12:35:14 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Loose Cannon-dian Message-ID: <6ishk1Far9jU1@mid.individual.net> In article <9D02E14BC0A2AE43A5D16A4CD8EC5A593ED5FEB144@gvw1158exb.americas.hpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" writes: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:billg999@cs.uofs.edu] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:24 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Loose Cannon-dian >> >> In article , >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> > In article , Michael Kraemer >> writes: >> >> >> >> That's pretty much nowhere land. >> >> Are there widely accepted certifications beyond >> >> orange book ? >> > >> > Nowhere? C2, B1, ..., all were written by some folks based on >> thier >> > limited knowledge and thier specific needs. There are a lot of >> other >> > legitimate security concerns. >> > >> > For example, Windows got a C2 rating at one time, based on >> > limitations like no network, no floppies, ... >> > >> > So what good is a system if you can't enter or retrive data? >> >> Those ratings are for operational systems. What need is there for a >> network connection or floppies on a system running a power plant? >> > > On the network piece, you are kidding, right? > > If not, do you understand how a power plant works? With all of its > wireless devices, worker laptops, remote sensing devices etc. It's > all one big "system". Nope, never worked in a power plant. This was just the example someone else had used long ago and I played on that. The discussion was over Windows and C2 and the statement that that meant no network and no floppies. I was merely trying to propose a scenario where a production system could be C2 and still actually work as needed. > >> One can take the system offline, connect a floppy, load and install >> needed upgrades and then remove the floppy, recertify and return to >> production as a C2 system. >> >> When one looks at things in terms of IS's instead of just a Windows >> box this stuff makes a lot more sense. But then, when you are so >> totally biased against MS, you become blind to reality. >> > > Bill, you seem to feel that the Internet is the big issue from a > security perspective and that with private networks, you do not need > to worry so much. Where did yuo draw that conclusion? > > In fact, security analysts will state that 60+% of security issues > are related to internal issues. Hence, even systems/desktops on > private networks need to apply the security patches that come out > each and every month for Windows and Linux. The whole point of all that I said was that you could have a system that, in production, does not have network or floppies thus able to be certified C2 but when in maintenance mode the level of certification is reduced. It is then recertified C2 and placed back in production. Of course, this is all moot as the rainbow books are yesterdays standard. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 06:56:27 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveG Subject: Re: Loose Cannon-dian Message-ID: <3f71a7bf-db97-4343-b8fb-1f9a205fdafb@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> To throw this topic back on course, at least for a moment, I received an OpenVMS Security Bulletin email from HP yesterday afternoon. The SMGRTL stuff was in there. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:00:24 +0200 From: Martin Vorlaender Subject: Re: Loose Cannon-dian (was: Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS) Message-ID: <6iru08F7pbhU1@mid.individual.net> bugs@signedness.org wrote: > I was hoping someone could tell us if there is a better place to > report them at HP than the security-alert email address since they > just stopped replying and ended all communications with us last time > we reported something there.. HP is a big company, so most things go sloooow... They published a security bulletin yesterday [1] containing the sentence The Hewlett-Packard Company thanks bugs@signedness.org for reporting this vulnerability to security-alert@hp.com. I guess that's the most you'll get from them. cu, Martin BTW: The bulletin isn't complete in the sense that it doesn't list the ECOs for OpenVMS VAX 6.2 and 7.3. So for the official HP, VAX doesn't exist any more?! ;-) [1] http://www.itrc.hp.com/service/cki/docDisplay.do?docId=emr_na-c01539423 ITRC Login required -- One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de One OS to bring them all | http://vms.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:14:48 +0200 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: Michael D. Ober wrote: > "Joseph Huber" wrote in message > news:ga7ulm$1110$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de... >> Michael Kraemer wrote: >>> JF Mezei schrieb: >>> >>>> ... and lets hope that >>>> they doN't rely on Windows to run it. >>> >>> I wouldn't hold my breath. >>> >>> >> >> Well yes, they do, and we do: >> see my snapshot of a small part of our liquid argon calorimeter >> detector control system >> http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber/atlas_lar_ready_for_beam.jpg >> waiting for beam ... >> >> -- >> >> Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de >> > > That's either Unix or Linux with a Korn shell. Not M$-Windows. > > Mike. NO, it IS Windows, see on top the window name "Rdesktop cernts...", (running from a Linux desktop. I do no longer have a VMS desktop :-) -- Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 04:35:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <5225a256-da99-46c6-a7d3-9cf80b4724fd@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Sep 10, 5:15=A0am, JF Mezei wrote: > AN UPDATE: > > The universe still exists today because all they are doing is getting a > few particles to move in one direction. No collisions planned in short > term. They'll next try to get a few particles to go in the opposite > direction. Collisions will happen much later when they get particles to > flow in opposite directions at the same time. (and they have to fine > tune their guidance system so that particles flowing in opposite > directions will hit each other. > > So what they have done today is what I used to do at the montreal > velodrome (before it was savagely destroyed by politicians): go round > and round hopefully without a collision... > First off, they will take 1-3 weeks to calibrate the counter-clockwise proton flow. This is necessary to get the protons travelling as close the the speed of light as possible. After that, they will require another 1-3 weeks to calibrate the clockwise proton flow. When that is done, they will run both rings then attempt to merge the beams inside the detectors so protons will collide with each other (as opposed to slamming into a fixed target). On a related note, the internet was around in various forms for more than 15 years (depends on which development is considered "the begining") but not much came of it until 1989 when CERN scientist Tim Berners-Lee invented the world-wide-web. Why did he do it? Scientists needed an easy way to access various multi-user computers (to see reports and stored experimental data) without accounts or passwords (a foreign concept at the time). Setting up an unrestricted area under the web server then developing browsers to access these files was what his team produced. The LHC will require > 2500 super computers to collect/store the data. Since the city of Geneva isn't able to power this many systems, these computers are distributed around the world with one of the best developed optical networks which they just refer to as "the grid". So many of us are waiting for the next CERN developed computer technology to come down to the masses. http://lcg.web.cern.ch/LCG/ p.s. microscopic low-mass black holes evaporate via Hawking radiation. Nature creates them all the time. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/OpenVMS.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:34:52 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: In article <48c8864d$0$12382$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >AEF wrote: > >> End of the world? I'll bet anyone, any amount, that it won't be! ;-) > > >This is a very unfair bet since in the event that you are wrong, you >will not exist and will therefore not be able to pay the "any amount" to >the other party. > >Note that there is good reason for the ring being burried 100m >underground. Should magnets fail and a single particle at full speed hit >the wall, the collision would be similar to a runaway freight train >hitting a wall at 150km/h. (or so I read). > >Makes one wonder if they have a big UPS to keep the magnets going should >there be a power failure :-) > >BTW, is there some simple explanation of how they take gaseous H2 from >a bottle and produce protons in some holding field prior to being >accelerated in that ring ? > >BTW, heard an intersting concept in an interview. The theory is that the >big bang generated the particle physics equivalent to stem cells: a >generic mass. This was later converted (via other collisions or other >mechanism) into a variety of atoms which make up the periodic table of >elements. The big bang pretty much just created the lighter elements upto Lithium. This is thought to have occurred in a number of stages with a quark-gluon plasma cooling to produce protons and neutrons which then combined to form these atomic nuclei. The abundances of hydrogen, deuterium and helium in the Universe fit pretty closely with the calculations though I believe there is a bit of a discrepency with the abundance of lithium. The rest of the elements are believed to have been created by fusion inside stars (elements upto Iron being created during the life of the star whilst heavier elements were created during supernova explosions which also acted to spread the elements across the universe). It is quite likely that the quark-gluon plasma itself formed from the cooling of a pre-existing stage consisting of even more fundamental entities eg strings. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:20:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Galen Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <55a14639-f606-4699-baca-dcd17dca963f@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> > > It is not clear if we will actually hear a "big bang". > Who cares about just hearing it? I won't believe that the LHC caused a "big bang" unless I get to _see_ it as well! By the waym who's to say that the hypothetical LHC-created big bang might not be the one that created this very universe? If that could be, dare we _not_ go ahead with this experiment? Otherwise we might prevent any of us, and everything else in the universe for that matter (pun, pun), from ever having existed in the first place. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:27:33 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: Galen wrote: >> It is not clear if we will actually hear a "big bang". >> > > Who cares about just hearing it? I won't believe that the LHC caused a > "big bang" unless I get to _see_ it as well! > > By the waym who's to say that the hypothetical LHC-created big bang > might not be the one that created this very universe? If that could > be, dare we _not_ go ahead with this experiment? Otherwise we might > prevent any of us, and everything else in the universe for that matter > (pun, pun), from ever having existed in the first place. > > :-) > Aaaaaaarrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!! The only merciful thing to do is to shoot him! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:18:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Galen Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <94748158-667d-48f7-a041-35d23a2b9d5a@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> > > Aaaaaaarrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!! > > The only merciful thing to do is to shoot him! If my execution becomes necessary please stand me up at the LHC and pull the trigger... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:27:40 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <29569f10-a228-4633-b772-c6e575f61df6@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Sep 10, 10:43=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > AEF wrote: [Well, I don't normally respond to off-topic JF posts, but I can't resist this one!] > > End of the world? I'll bet anyone, any amount, that it won't be! ;-) Well, duh! > > This is a very unfair bet since in the event that you are wrong, you > will not exist and will therefore not be able to pay the "any amount" to > the other party. But the other party won't exist either! > > Note that there is good reason for the ring being burried 100m > underground. Should magnets fail and a single particle at full speed hit > the wall, the collision would be similar to a runaway freight train > hitting a wall at 150km/h. (or so I read). You read wrong. Not even close. (And that itself is a gross understatement!) If you need some evidence, check http://www.onlineconversion.com/ or any reputable book with a units/physical-constants table and do the math. [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 2008 11:20:44 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: In article <48c8864d$0$12382$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > BTW, is there some simple explanation of how they take gaseous H2 from > a bottle and produce protons in some holding field prior to being > accelerated in that ring ? You remember that Van de Graff generator you had in middle school? Most big accelerators start by using Van de Graff generators to produce charged particles. > BTW, heard an intersting concept in an interview. The theory is that the > big bang generated the particle physics equivalent to stem cells: a > generic mass. This was later converted (via other collisions or other > mechanism) into a variety of atoms which make up the periodic table of > elements. Big question is: where's all the anti-matter? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:05:34 -0400 From: "Farrell, Michael" Subject: RE: Pipe search of command procedure log file containing pipe search command. co Message-ID: <8330CD39B64C934DBE63CB6D4CEE37D099676E@NJ103EX2.EAST.VIS.COM> Hein, I must admit my ignorance here. =20 What is the "seg0_1 2" accomplishing in the convert statements below. I use segmented keys but have always been taught to write them in the = form "seg0_position " and "seg0_length ", etc. =20 How does convert see the statement you presented? I cannot find = anything like this in the RMS Utilities Reference manual. TIA, Mike Farrell -----Original Message----- From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel [mailto:heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:11 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Subject: Re: Pipe search of command procedure log file containing pipe = search command. command.command. On Sep 10, 9:40=A0am, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > Here is a code fragment designed to search the running command = procedure > to > see if any of the converts in the log got duplicate error messages. CONVERT-I-DUP is an informational and NOT reflected in the $STATUS, so that's a non-starter. CONVERT-I-DUP is really an annoying obnoxious implementation. I should have fixed it while I was in the area, but did not realize how bad it was. A line per record and no stopping the fun! :-( Commands I used for testing: To generate dups: $ convert/stat/fdl=3D"fi;or in;key 0; seg0_l 2"/exc=3Dlogin.dup = login.com login.idx To not generate dups: $ convert/stat/fdl=3D"fi;or in;key 0; seg0_l 2"/exc=3Dlogin.dup = login.idx login.idx Two suggestions: 1) always convert with /STAT (which you do) AND also / EXCEPTION=3D'exection_file' ... Now you can just use something like $ IF F$FILE(exception_file, "EOF") .NE. 0 $ THEN $ MAIL... $ ELSE $ DELETE 'F$SEARCH(exception_file) ! Always created, so clean up last one $ ENDIF If that EOF returns non-zero then it is bad. You probably do not care wether the badness was duplicates or something else right? 2) If you are going to spawn anyway, consider a perl wrapper to eat those annoying duplicate lines. Here is an initial test version. Of course you probably want to pass is the command and/or read from a file. ---- convert_wrapper.pl ----- use strict; use warnings; my $dups =3D 0; open(STDERR, '>login.err'); # or send to Holland? (NL:) my $convert_command =3D q(convert/stat/fdl=3D"fi;or in;key 0; seg0_l 2") = . q(/exc=3Dlogin.dup login.com login.idx); for (qx($convert_command)) { print unless /^%CONVERT-I-DUP/ and $dups++; } print "$dups duplicate keys reported\n" if $dups; ----------------------- fwiw, Hein. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.499 ************************