INFO-VAX Thu, 25 Sep 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 517 Contents: Re: Cobol switches and LNM$FILE_DEV : bug ? Re: Cobol switches and LNM$FILE_DEV : bug ? Re: Cobol switches and LNM$FILE_DEV : bug ? Re: EFI Console Re: EFI Console Re: EFI Console Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long GNU Diffutils (2.8.7) for VMS RE: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup NetBackup OpenVMS client 6.0 MP7 is now available for download Re: OpenVMS and Oracle 10.2.0.4.0 Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: Running OpenVMS in a virtual machine on Itanium? Re: Running OpenVMS in a virtual machine on Itanium? Re: SSH break-in attempts Re: SSH break-in attempts Re: SSH break-in attempts Strange occurance when mixing "set proc/unit=byte" and pipe Re: Text file generated by a Cobol application Re: Text file generated by a Cobol application Re: Text file generated by a Cobol application What creates .RND files? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:33:42 +0200 From: Marc Van Dyck Subject: Re: Cobol switches and LNM$FILE_DEV : bug ? Message-ID: John Reagan formulated on mercredi : > "Marc Van Dyck" wrote in message > news:mn.bd367d893beae4b1.86952@brutele.be... >> Cobol switches (see the SET SWITCH primitive) have been implemented >> with a logical name, COB$SWITCHES, normally defined in the process >> table at user level. For a reason unknown to me, the COBRTL code >> uses the first table pointed by LNM$FILE_DEV to create this logical >> name. This is OK until LNM$FILE_DEV is modified for whatever reason. >> If, after modification, the first table pointed by LNM$FILE_DEV belongs >> in LNM$SYSTEM_DIRECTORY, the user mode definition trick does not work >> and COB$SWITCHES remains defined after image exit, which is in complete >> contradiction to what is said about it in the compiler documentation. >> Does that count as a bug ? If yes, how do I get it solved ? And is >> there a way, documented or not, to force COBRTL to define COB$SWITCHES >> in LNM$PROCESS, whatever LNM$FILE_DEV says ? > > A similar issue was reported back in 2004 (fixed for V8.2 and beyond) where > some piece of code added a non-writeable table to the beginning of > LNM$FILE_DEV causing the SET SWITCH to fail. After the change, if the > initial sys$crelnm fails with LNM$FILE_DEV, the COBOL RTL falls back and uses > LNM$PROCESS. (I didn't do that change - I wasn't involved with COBOL then). > > I'm also at a loss why we'd want a /USER definition of COB$SWITCHES in any > other table than LNM$PROCESS since we want the logical to evaporate at image > run-down. > > I'll add it to our list. In the meantime, as I noted above, the only way to > influence the decision is to put a non-writeable table at the front but that > is likely to screw up lots of other pieces of code so I wouldn't do that. > > John We are still in V7.3-2 and our version of COBRTL stack-dumps when writing COB$SWITCHES in the first table pointed by LNM$FILE_DEV is not possible. We checked that by adding an ACL (ID=*,ACCESS=READ) to the table. Anyway, thanks for fixing that, even if it is not immediate. In the mean time, we have added yet another table, process-confined, in front of the offending one, and all is well again. I'd however like to get rid of this fix as soon as I can, as I imagine the face of my successor ten years ahead trying to understand why I ever did that... -- Marc Van Dyck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:36:41 +0200 From: Marc Van Dyck Subject: Re: Cobol switches and LNM$FILE_DEV : bug ? Message-ID: Bob Koehler laid this down on his screen : > In article , Marc Van Dyck > writes: >> Cobol switches (see the SET SWITCH primitive) have been implemented >> with a logical name, COB$SWITCHES, normally defined in the process >> table at user level. For a reason unknown to me, the COBRTL code >> uses the first table pointed by LNM$FILE_DEV to create this logical >> name. This is OK until LNM$FILE_DEV is modified for whatever reason. >> If, after modification, the first table pointed by LNM$FILE_DEV belongs >> in LNM$SYSTEM_DIRECTORY, the user mode definition trick does not work >> and COB$SWITCHES remains defined after image exit, which is in complete >> contradiction to what is said about it in the compiler documentation. >> Does that count as a bug ? If yes, how do I get it solved ? And is >> there a way, documented or not, to force COBRTL to define COB$SWITCHES >> in LNM$PROCESS, whatever LNM$FILE_DEV says ? > > Changing LNM$FILE_DEV to put the system table first is likely to > break lots of things. The behaviour you're seeing is an expected > result. As far as I know, changing LNM$FILE_DEV is perfectly supported, documented, and not explicitely forbidden by H.P. There are a lot of reasons - I have encountered many myself previously - why you would want to do that. And in any case, it's not me who's doing that, but a third-party product. -- Marc Van Dyck ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 2008 15:57:56 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Cobol switches and LNM$FILE_DEV : bug ? Message-ID: In article , Marc Van Dyck writes: > > As far as I know, changing LNM$FILE_DEV is perfectly supported, > documented, and not explicitely forbidden by H.P. There are a lot > of reasons - I have encountered many myself previously - why you > would want to do that. And in any case, it's not me who's doing > that, but a third-party product. Yes it is, and I've used it, too. But just to add user defined group writeable tables in between job and group. HP doesn't EXPLICITLY forbid you from doing a "delete [...]*.*;*" from a system root directory such as SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS03], but I've actually seen the results of those foolish enough to do it. I do think COBOL should not implement its switches this way, but I also expect you can break other things if not carefull. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:20:18 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: EFI Console Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: > On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:22:57 -0700, Tom Linden wrote: > >> I got one of those RX2600 and in trying to talk to the console >> connected from an Alpha using >> SET HOST/DTE TTA0 >> >> it keeps trying to refresh the screen and eventually ends with >> garbage. What should be the terminal settings on the Alpha? >> >> Tom >> > I connected a pigtail to to the MP port and to that a cable > from TTA0 on an Alpha, nothing. > > I have the terminal at 9600-N-8-1, should it be something else? > Same cable works on the console port (not on the MP) > > Nothing generally means that nothing is being written to the port! 9600/8/N/1 is the default but someone could have set the port to something else. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:16:57 -0400 From: "forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam" Subject: Re: EFI Console Message-ID: Try this. 1) Make sure you have a serial cable hooked to the console port on the 3 connector pig tail 2) From Alpha set host/dte to TTA0 3) Press the reset button for the MP console it is next to the connector for the 3 port cable 4) If the MP is working that should output a prompt on the console port I forget the exact syntax something about complete reset. That wipes every setting in the MP out and takes them back to the factory default. Forrest ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:32:06 -0700 (PDT) From: PR Subject: Re: EFI Console Message-ID: <3335b417-94fa-4f93-86e5-00554ba0215f@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Sep 24, 11:17=A0am, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:22:57 -0700, Tom Linden wrot= e: > > I got one of those RX2600 and in trying to talk to the console > > connected from an Alpha using > > SET HOST/DTE TTA0 > > > it keeps trying to refresh the screen and eventually ends with > > garbage. =A0What should be the terminal settings on the Alpha? > > > Tom > > I connected a pigtail to to the MP port and to that a cable > =A0from TTA0 on an Alpha, =A0nothing. > > I have the terminal at 9600-N-8-1, should it be something else? > Same cable works on the console port (not on the MP) > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com Try resetting the MP; there is a little button on the back to do that. Also, you might need to put a null modem cable between the two systems, both are DCE I think. I definately had to using a PC serial port. Once you reset the MP, you can assign it an IP address and do away with the serial cable, except in emergencies. Also, once you get into the machine, go into the EFI Boot Option Maintenance Menu and select your terminal to be VT100. It is probably set to either ANSI or VT100+. Be sure to set standard in, stadout and error to all be the same. The MP consoles are the ones that have both "PCI" and "UART" in them; the console serial port just says UART. The VGA port just says PCI. You will probably need to be sure you do not have a keyboard and mouse plugged in to IPL andload VMS. Lastly, if you have not upgraded the firmware, it is (at least to me) a bit of a nerve wracking task, but doing it is well worth the time and effort. The machines I received here had very old firmware in them. You have to upgrade it in stages, four separate stages I think, and at least the first one will probably have to be via FTP. Do not trust a USB DVD drive until you have the firmware updated! You can wind up with a dead machine if something goes wrong on the firmware upgrade. There isn't any failsafe, as in SRM. Note that once you have it all running, the firmware, EFI and MP, is really nice and a pleasure to use. -Paul The MP ports are the ones that say ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:03:29 -0500 From: VMS is Virus Free Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: On 24 Sep 2008 08:36:01 -0500, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote: >In article <5UeCk.1038$MN3.360@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, John Santos writes: >> >> Sure wish they would fix this (editing wide lines)! >> > >I've filed multiple formal enhancement requests for this and other DCL >deficiencies over the years. > >I've never even had any clarification back from anyone other than the >support people who logged the requests. > >I personally put things like this into the "will never happen" category. > >I switch between Linux and VMS on a daily basis and DCL is really dated >compared to the capabilities in bash. Yes, I know that there's an older >version of bash available for VMS, but we are talking about the >capabilities of the native CLI environment here, which for VMS is DCL. > >Simon. If you are on Windows, XLNT (http://www.advsyscon.com) is a decent DCL CLI for Windows. If the VMS folks would at least do that much for normal DCL on VMS, it would be a great step forward. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:37:46 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: <5a1490b0-336e-4228-bae3-d003bd8d5de5@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Sep 24, 12:28=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > John Vottero wrote: > > I agree. =A0HP needs to replace DCL with a modern CLI/scripting environ= ment. > > > It's another example of OpenVMS falling behind, even Windows has a bett= er > > CLI (PowerShell). > > As I recall, the problem with the line editing is with the terminal > driver which would need a major update to handle command lines longer > than the screen width. > > I am not sure that this requires a "replace DCL". Search comp.os.vms on Google Groups for TERMINAL DRIVER LONG LINES and you'll set that it *is* the terminal driver. AEF ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 2008 15:47:53 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: In article , clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > > Automatic retention of command history, including the automatic merging of > just the new commands from that session into the command history file. Command history retention in files has security implications. > > Tab based filename completion. Yep. > > No way to search the help library. (Yes, I know that's not really a bash > function, but on VMS, HELP is considered to be part of DCL.) With hierachical help, searching is not as often needed. I find VMS HELP much easier than man -k when I need to find something and don't know where it is. I keep trying to learn "info" for just that reason. > These don't require a "replace DCL" action, but they are the things that > I find _extremely_ frustrating when switching from a bash shell to a DCL > session. > > However, providing an additional CLI/scripting environment with VMS would > allow the additional types of features seen in other environments, but for > now I would be happy with just the above been added to DCL. DCL on VAXen was pretty well hacked up. Porting it to Alpha was a major piece of work. I think VMS Engineering should freeze DCL for upward compatability and create a new CLI. And please don't base it on cryptic languages like C. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 2008 15:50:40 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: <4aeC3e2C+Kla@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <5a1490b0-336e-4228-bae3-d003bd8d5de5@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > and you'll set that it *is* the terminal driver. The terminal driver only provides single-line editting. Any program that doesn't take detailed control of the terminal can use it. DCL and SMG provide that plus multi-line recall. Any program using SMG can make use of that, but DCL doesn't use SMG. And DCL could provide it's own built in editor with much more power than the terminal driver. After all, EDT and TPU do. But I think DCL should be frozen and VMS should move on. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:12:48 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: Simon Clubley wrote: > In article <5UeCk.1038$MN3.360@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, John Santos writes: >> Sure wish they would fix this (editing wide lines)! >> > > I've filed multiple formal enhancement requests for this and other DCL > deficiencies over the years. > > I've never even had any clarification back from anyone other than the > support people who logged the requests. > > I personally put things like this into the "will never happen" category. > > I switch between Linux and VMS on a daily basis and DCL is really dated > compared to the capabilities in bash. Yes, I know that there's an older > version of bash available for VMS, but we are talking about the > capabilities of the native CLI environment here, which for VMS is DCL. > > Simon. > Please remember that DCL IS a Command Line Interpreter and NOT really a programming language! I know it has been used to write applications but it's certainly not the primary purpose. There are certainly better tools available for writing most applications. If you want to write applications in your CLI, try Solaris or Linux. I think you would probably be happier with COBOL! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:17:02 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: John Vottero wrote: > "Simon Clubley" wrote in > message news:92cjqbPYDj7K@eisner.encompasserve.org... >> In article <5UeCk.1038$MN3.360@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, John Santos >> writes: >>> >>> Sure wish they would fix this (editing wide lines)! >>> >> >> I've filed multiple formal enhancement requests for this and other DCL >> deficiencies over the years. >> >> I've never even had any clarification back from anyone other than the >> support people who logged the requests. >> >> I personally put things like this into the "will never happen" category. >> >> I switch between Linux and VMS on a daily basis and DCL is really dated >> compared to the capabilities in bash. Yes, I know that there's an older >> version of bash available for VMS, but we are talking about the >> capabilities of the native CLI environment here, which for VMS is DCL. >> > > I agree. HP needs to replace DCL with a modern CLI/scripting environment. > Have you tried BASIC? Or COBOL? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:22:55 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > John Vottero wrote: > >> I agree. HP needs to replace DCL with a modern CLI/scripting environment. >> >> It's another example of OpenVMS falling behind, even Windows has a better >> CLI (PowerShell). > > > As I recall, the problem with the line editing is with the terminal > driver which would need a major update to handle command lines longer > than the screen width. > > I am not sure that this requires a "replace DCL". > I'm quite sure you are right! Any command that cannot be fully expressed in 132 characters should probably be placed in a .COM file and executed from the file. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:26:45 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: AEF wrote: > On Sep 24, 12:28 pm, JF Mezei wrote: >> John Vottero wrote: >>> I agree. HP needs to replace DCL with a modern CLI/scripting environment. >>> It's another example of OpenVMS falling behind, even Windows has a better >>> CLI (PowerShell). >> As I recall, the problem with the line editing is with the terminal >> driver which would need a major update to handle command lines longer >> than the screen width. >> >> I am not sure that this requires a "replace DCL". > > Search comp.os.vms on Google Groups for > > TERMINAL DRIVER LONG LINES > > and you'll set that it *is* the terminal driver. > > AEF Since the available terminals generally do not support more than 132 characters per line, there is little point in supporting command line editing for longer lines! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:32:41 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: >> Automatic retention of command history, including the automatic merging of >> just the new commands from that session into the command history file. > > Command history retention in files has security implications. > >> Tab based filename completion. > > Yep. > >> No way to search the help library. (Yes, I know that's not really a bash >> function, but on VMS, HELP is considered to be part of DCL.) > > With hierachical help, searching is not as often needed. I find > VMS HELP much easier than man -k when I need to find something and > don't know where it is. I keep trying to learn "info" for just > that reason. > >> These don't require a "replace DCL" action, but they are the things that >> I find _extremely_ frustrating when switching from a bash shell to a DCL >> session. >> >> However, providing an additional CLI/scripting environment with VMS would >> allow the additional types of features seen in other environments, but for >> now I would be happy with just the above been added to DCL. > > DCL on VAXen was pretty well hacked up. Porting it to Alpha was a > major piece of work. I think VMS Engineering should freeze DCL for > upward compatability and create a new CLI. > > And please don't base it on cryptic languages like C. > And please do not base it on cryptic languages like sh, ksh, csh, zsh, etc! DCL is, without a doubt, the most user friendly CLI I know of! If I want a "shell" I'll use Unix!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:39:10 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: <00A8020E.1003943F@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , VMS is Virus Free writes: >On 24 Sep 2008 08:36:01 -0500, >clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote: > >>In article <5UeCk.1038$MN3.360@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, John Santos writes: >>> >>> Sure wish they would fix this (editing wide lines)! >>> >> >>I've filed multiple formal enhancement requests for this and other DCL >>deficiencies over the years. >> >>I've never even had any clarification back from anyone other than the >>support people who logged the requests. >> >>I personally put things like this into the "will never happen" category. >> >>I switch between Linux and VMS on a daily basis and DCL is really dated >>compared to the capabilities in bash. Yes, I know that there's an older >>version of bash available for VMS, but we are talking about the >>capabilities of the native CLI environment here, which for VMS is DCL. >> >>Simon. > >If you are on Windows, XLNT (http://www.advsyscon.com) is a decent DCL >CLI for Windows. If the VMS folks would at least do that much for >normal DCL on VMS, it would be a great step forward. No it's not! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:13:57 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: <48daf4ae$0$12366$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> DCL is established. Improvements are quite possible. Guy Peleg, before leaving, had done a bunch of welcomed improvements. Where there is a will, there is a way. But looking at roadmaps, it is clear that intaractive use is not high on the agenda. What I'd rather see are improvements to DECterm. Notably, a DCL interface/PFkey that would cause a GUI dialogue to pop up with the current command in it. You could then use GUI tools to cut/past/insert to your hearts contents. And when done, the dialogue goes away and the command is executed. But that would require DECterm to be changed and I am not sure this is possible anymore. Source is probably stored in some inaccessible safe at the other end of the globe by now and never touched/seen by anyone. And it would also require "Digital" to set some new ANSI escape sequence to trigger this popup dialogue and incorporate that into DECterm and in DCL (or terminal driver). And since "Digital" doesn't exist anymore, it probably is impossible to add new escape sequences to the "standard". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:36:38 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: GNU Diffutils (2.8.7) for VMS Message-ID: <08092419363825_20202860@antinode.info> Anyone with a burning desire to use GNU Diffutils (cmp, diff, diff3, sdiff) on a VMS system, might wish to consider this attempt: http://antinode.info/dec/sw/diffutils.html I'm not claiming any particular level of quality, but it seems to do some basic stuff well enough for me. I had done a port (not publicized) of version 2.8.1, which seems to be the last official release, but I recently tried to use it to compare a file tree ("diff -r") on an ODS5 disk with one on an ODS2 disk, only to find that the "--ignore-file-name-case" option didn't work. After I found the lame code, I did a bit of looking around, and discovered that other people had found the same problem (on UNIX-like systems), and that it was supposed to be fixed in this version 2.8.7 "test release". So, rather than fix the one bug, I just ported the 2.8.7 code. The only significant new change was to set the default setting of the "--[no-]ignore-file-name-case" option according to the current SET PROCESS /CASE_LOOKUP setting. As usual, complaints are welcome, but low expectations would be appropriate. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:10:32 -0400 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: RE: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup Message-ID: <2244F1A54F4A4B10B33DC9A790175382@CHARONLAP> >... > Well yes, in the backup container. > Do you still have the container? > Backup / list [/full] does not show it, but it knows it. > > I just hacked up a quick tool to display that flag. > I don't pretend to understand a backup container (like do I worry > about blocksize?), but this first part seemed easy. > Code appended below. >... I have not studied the backup saveset format either, but I did notice that if you do a BACKUP/LIST/ANALYZE/FULL then search the listing file for the text "FLAGS = %X'00000020'" you will find files that are marked NOBACKUP. I never looked to see what the flag shows if you do the backup with /IGNORE=NOBACKUP. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com Winner of the 2007 OpenVMS.org Readers' Choice Award for System Management/Performance ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:43:59 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup Message-ID: On Sep 24, 10:10 pm, "Peter Weaver" wrote: > >... > > Well yes, in the backup container. > > Do you still have the container? > > Backup / list [/full] does not show it, but it knows it. > > > I just hacked up a quick tool to display that flag. > > I don't pretend to understand a backup container (like do I worry > > about blocksize?), but this first part seemed easy. > > Code appended below. > >... > > I have not studied the backup saveset format either, but I did notice that > if you do a BACKUP/LIST/ANALYZE/FULL then search the listing file for the > text "FLAGS = %X'00000020'" you will find files that are marked > NOBACKUP. I never looked to see what the flag shows if you do the backup > with /IGNORE=NOBACKUP. > > Peter Weaverwww.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.comwww.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com > Winner of the 2007 OpenVMS.org Readers' Choice Award for System > Management/Performance I know that the listings produced by BACKUP journal files will say "data not copied" for the .SYS files in the MFD, but I never checked what it does for files marked "no backup". Of course, this doesn't help the OP. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:34:01 -0700 (PDT) From: alan_fay@symantec.com Subject: NetBackup OpenVMS client 6.0 MP7 is now available for download Message-ID: <93ed50bc-5f9d-49f2-9e3f-86bfc0b49ca2@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> The NetBackup 6.0 MP7 OpenVMS client maintenance pack for HP Itanium (IA64), Alpha (AXP) and VAX systems is now available from Veritas support:- ftp://ftp.support.veritas.com/pub/support/products/NetBackup_Enterprise_Server/ NB_VMS_60_7_M_308772.zip Please see the "NetBackup User's Guide for OpenVMS" (NB_VMS_60.pdf) which is included in the release. Alan Fay Roseville Engineering Symantec Corporation ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:21:25 -0700 (PDT) From: RobbieH Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Oracle 10.2.0.4.0 Message-ID: On Sep 24, 2:01=A0pm, "Syltrem" wrote: > Hi > > I've been told (a couple of weeks ago) by an Oracle support person that O= EM > grid control for Itanium would be available last week... > It was promised to me at least twice in the past year, so I hope this is > true now. My feeling is that it will be, as they have a date, not just an > estimate. > > As for 10.2.0.4 I don't know. I hope to get it soon too. > > If you write to Kevin Duffy, can you post the answer here ? > > Thanks > Syltrem > > wrote in message > > news:fe2a785c-6541-4bf2-8bd1-8182138a32ed@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > > > > > I've been told by Oracle that the terminal release patchset 10.2.0.4.0 > > will be available by the end of October AND that the Itanium 10.2 Grid > > Control agent will be available in the next couple of weeks. Can > > anyone confirm I'm not being spun the typical Oracle VMS yarn. I've > > had these messages in the past but nothing ever emerges.- Hide quoted t= ext - > > - Show quoted text - What was interesting about the Grid Agent was that Oracle support said that it was due to be uploaded to their website last weekend, but due to a technical fault wasn't... this is probably cos they upgraded metalink. I'll look at emailing this chap tomorrow. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:26:59 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <43dfa11d-2dc0-4b89-8a01-02981f3fc296@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Sep 23, 11:15 am, Michael Kraemer wrote: > AEF schrieb: > > > > > No, that's not true. The MM experiment was done before relativity and > > it did not confirm it. > > It was decisive insofar as it showed that one can't > add further to the speed of light (and killed the ether > hypothesis btw). This limitation nearly inevitably leads > to SR. > > > There were other explanations at the time. In > > > fact, IIRC, SR wasn't even well accepted at the time. > > This doesn't mean much. Kopernikus, Kepler, Galileo come to mind. > > > Also, at least according to Einstein, His Life and Universe, by Walter > > Isaacson, the eclipse experiment did not provide very accurate or > > consistent results, but Eddington was so convinced that GR could not > > be wrong that he threw out the results of one expedition that didn't > > agree with the more favorable results of another, which still had > > somewhat large error bars (margin of error). Additionally, there have > > been many variants of GR proposed by others, > > There might have been other theories of gravitation, > but there can only be one GR. > Of course quite a bunch of additional > tests have been performed or proposed > in the mean time, including pretty expensive ones > like gravitational wave detection. > But the most decisive experiments happened early > and were rather cheap. > > > and as more research is > > done, including astronomical observations and terrestrial experiments, > > the others continue to fall by the wayside. > > > If subatomic physics (nuclear and particle physics) is to progress, it > > is almost certainly unavoidable that the size and costs will only > > increase. (There's only so much you can learn from cosmic rays.) > > > I am not aware of any fraud or other bad behavior perpetrated by the > > scientists who proposed and obtained funding for the LHC. > > No one > > promised anything. > > You are bit overly optimistic or maybe naive. > "Big science" isn't any different from "big politics" > or "big finance". Those who lobby better the politicians > will get the most funds. It does not mean that they represent > better science. Research funds can only be spent once > (creative financing a la Wall Street Casino is hardly possible), > and those who promise the most practical fall-out will > be able to talk politicians into big spending. > And I'm pretty sure the Cern people promised a lot > of fall-out to the politicians. Yes, politics is involved. So? What could CERN have promised that they didn't already do year after year? Some people, me included, think basic research is important not only for possible -- perhaps even likely -- application later, but as a noble cause in continuing to learn more about how our world works. Back to fraud: Can you give some specific examples? Did CERN promise to cure all cancers? Did they promise a Star Trek-like world? Paradise? A successor to Teflon? What? You talk of better science but you seem to be focused on direct applications. That would be applied science. Getting back to the cost of SR: The problem with Maxwell's equations is that its wave equation is not invariant with respect to Galilean (non-SR: the usual space and time as separate absolutes) transformations: Changing from one inertial reference frame to another would completely change the form of the equations. This is fine for other waves as the medium through which they pass is the preferred frame. But what was the medium for light? Hence the ether theory -- which had obvious problems. Enter Einstein: There were three possibilites: 1. Maxwell Equations were incorrect. Highly unlikely based on their amazing success. 2. The ether theory. The Lorentz transformation was developed for this, but it was a kludge. 3. Galilean relativity was wrong. for various reasons I won't go into here, Einstein picked no. 3. So where's the cost? Maxwell's equations didn't come for free. They were the accumulation of a vast amount of EM research by Ampere, Coulomb, Cavendish, Faraday, and many others. No, it wasn't $6 billion, but some science is cheap and some isn't. > > In fact, we may find nothing new, but I think > > that's the least likely case. If people are willing to fund it, what's > > the problem? ... > > You could fund useful things more directly. > Look at the Desy example I gave a couple of > days ago. Please elaborate. I'm not familiar with Desy but my quick glance at the wikipedia article for it I only saw one sentence about any applied science. The main purpose of the device was to do research in fundamental physics, without which there'd be no Desy. Please elaborate on your view, as I spent little time on this part. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:30:49 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <331ce77d-49f6-48a6-810a-69946005b8f1@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Sep 23, 12:42 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article , > hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > > > > In article <6js62cF4rf5...@mid.individual.net>, billg...@cs.uofs.edu > > (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >> Yes, he did. Mere days before sighting land. And at a point where he > >> had actually travelled less than half the distance any educated person > >> of the time would have known it would take to reach the far east while > >> traveling in that direction. Contrary to popular belief no educated > >> person of the time aactually thought the earth was flat. The ancient > >> greeks had determined it was round and had done a pretty good job of > >> computing it's circumferance. So, based on the amount of rations > >> Columbus left Spain with and the knowledge he is known to have had > >> (and some he is suspected to have had) it becomes obvious that "The > >> Far East" was never his target because assuming an all sea route in a > >> westerly direction, he left with insuffucient rations to make the trip. > > > Columbus used a smaller value for the circumference of the Earth than > > the correct value, > > Smaller is an understatement as he missed it by more than 50%. A > navigator who made mistakes like that would hardly have lasted as > long as he had or had a reputaion supposedly as good as his. > > > even though other folks at the time had something > > quite close to the correct value. > > At the time? Try more than 1400 years earlier. Why does this matter? > > > Was this intentional on his part to > > make his plans sound more realistic, or did he really believe in the > > smaller value? > > Or did he have pre-knowledge of the existence of the North and South > American (although obviously not under that name) continents and merely > bilked Ferdinand and Isabella into financing his boondogle to se what > was there!! Or did he prefer dogs or cats? This is pure speculation. Maybe he did? Maybe not. Is there any evidence at all to make what you suspect plausible? AEF > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > billg...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:34:35 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <20cf0b35-bc88-4746-a7d6-9c1eb9c48a42@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Sep 23, 4:32 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <6js933F4l7u...@mid.individual.net>, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > In article , > > AEF writes: > > >> If people are willing to fund it, what's > >> the problem? ... > > > The problem is when the people are not given the choice of wether or not > > to fund it and the funding could have been put to better and more immediate > > use solving real problems today. > > There will always be "real problems". So when is the correct date > or what is the correct criteria to start funding the basic research > needed to solve them? And basic research has helped with many problems. There are numerous applications in medicine due to basic research in physics: PET, MRI (formerly called NMR, but it's the same thing), preparation of radioactive isotopes, X-rays, radiation therapy, CAT scans, NaI crystals to detect gamma rays emitted by prepared patients. ..... ) I'm sure the same holds true in other fields. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:35:43 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: On Sep 23, 11:24 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > AEF wrote: > > The speed of light is independent of the motion of its source. > > But they still use "Doppler" principles to detect whether a star is > getting away or closer based on frequency of the light. > (shift towards red or shift towards blue). But the speed of the light waves is still c. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:38:54 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <862c4d7b-ed00-418f-b3f2-d403d0c35316@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On Sep 24, 4:25 am, Michael Kraemer wrote: > JF Mezei schrieb: > > > Since the LHC can accelerate particles to near speed of light, is there > > any reason to need an even bigger one ? > > There wasn't really a good reason to build the LHC, > so of course there will be the next big thing, > called ILC (International Collider). > "Close to the speed of light" is not the right > metrics, but rather the Lorentz factor, 1 / sqrt( 1 - (v/c) ** 2 ) > which determines the energy of the accelerated particle. > I.e. adding a trailing "9" to v/c=0.9999 will result in a > significant increase of energy, but almost no increase in velocity. Correct. As the energy increases, the speed approaches c asymptotically. > > > BTW, I haven't seen it mentioned here, but the LHC failed some 36 hours > > after being booted up. Seems some magnet failed and particles then > > collided with the wall. Seems the damage is substantial, and they must > > now warm the whole thing up to room temperature before they can work on > > it, fix it, and then cool it back down. > > shit happens. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:37:56 -0700 (PDT) From: PR Subject: Re: Running OpenVMS in a virtual machine on Itanium? Message-ID: <0f9a499f-1fa5-4f26-a294-b6b7b39ea346@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Sep 19, 8:33=A0am, "John Reagan" wrote: > "yyyc186" wrote in message > > news:b1a02244-ef24-4afe-9d5d-7c93f0d9998a@k7g2000hsd.googlegroups.com... > > So you have to run a rock solid OS underneath and OS which is an > industry wide joke. > > My (albeit limited) understanding is that the VM runs on some cut > down/streamlined/whatever version of HP-UX. =A0It isn't a full multi-user > environment that you can log into. =A0If you want to run HP-UX, you run i= t > virtual along side of your virtual OpenVMS. > > John It's really a full version of HP-UX, at least in V.23 adn V.31 that runs Integrity Virtual Machines. I'm waiting on OpenVMS 8.4 to test it, but at the moment, I don't think you can run OpenVMS under IVM. At least OpenVMS 8.3-1H1 wont recognize the serial port on any machine I have access too (RX2600 and RX2660), which seems to be the problem. HP-UX (all 11i versions at least), Linux (SuSE 10 SP2), and Windows seem to run very well under it though. -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:42:08 -0700 (PDT) From: PR Subject: Re: Running OpenVMS in a virtual machine on Itanium? Message-ID: <3cb7a675-ce02-4c07-a793-289b408d8f7b@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com> On Sep 19, 10:31=A0am, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:24:17 -0700, jferraro wrote: > > On Sep 19, 9:33=A0am, "John Reagan" wrote: > >> "yyyc186" wrote in message > > >>news:b1a02244-ef24-4afe-9d5d-7c93f0d9998a@k7g2000hsd.googlegroups.com..= . > > >> So you have to run a rock solid OS underneath and OS which is an > >> industry wide joke. > > >> My (albeit limited) understanding is that the VM runs on some cut > >> down/streamlined/whatever version of HP-UX. =A0It isn't a full multi-u= ser > >> environment that you can log into. =A0If you want to run HP-UX, you ru= n it > >> virtual along side of your virtual OpenVMS. > > >> John > > > John, > > > This has not been my experience with HP IVM, thus far - though I do > > wish I could agree. Unless, I haven't seen the documentation on how to > > "strip down" HP-UX, the instances I am running include a FULL INSTALL > > of the OS and the HP IVM layered-products on top. > > > Joe > > What launches the Virtual Machine? =A0Unix typically boots to single user= and > then multi-user, although the boot scripts often automate (^D) to =A0 > multi-user. > So the question is if is possible to launch the VM from single user? > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The Host HPUX node has to be up and fully running. You launch the VMs as separate processes under HP-UX. I setup "guest" access to the VM consoles myself. In other words, if I have a VM named ilin040 (which would be a IA64 Linux instance with an IP host address of 40 on my internal class C network) I made a user with that name and point their shell to be hpvmconsole. When I telnet or ssh to the host HP-UX machine, I effectively get an MP menu. It isn't the real MP of course, and there are some extra commands - for instance to eject and load removable media - but same process. Power on the instance, go through the EFI boot manger, and get a console. It is actually very slick and easy to manage once setup. -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:09:34 -0700 (PDT) From: H Vlems Subject: Re: SSH break-in attempts Message-ID: <433a1516-b2a6-415a-8037-8135b7ed3608@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On 24 sep, 09:52, Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> wrote: > Here's trymsg.com. > > Jur. > > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Verif =3D 'F$Verify(0) > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 If "''P1'" .nes. "" Then $ Goto Start_1 > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Inquire P1 "Enter message code" > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 If P1 .eqs. "" Then $ Goto Start > $Start_1: > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Found =3D 0 > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Msgfil =3D "" > $Loop: > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Junk =3D F$Message(P1) > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 If F$Extract(0,7,Junk) .Eqs. "%NONAME" Then Goto Next_File > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 If F$Locate("-NOMSG",Junk) .Ne. F$Length(Junk) Then Goto Ne= xt_File > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 If Msgfil .eqs. "" Then $ Goto No_File > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Write Sys$Output "" > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Write Sys$Output "From ''Msgfil'..." > $No_File: > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Write Sys$Output "" > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Write Sys$Output Junk > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Write Sys$Output "" > $! =A0 =A0 =A0Found =3D 1 > $! =A0 =A0 =A0Goto Exit > $Next_File: > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Msgfil =3D F$Search("Sys$Message:*.Exe") > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 If Msgfil .Eqs. "" Then Goto Exit > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Set Message 'Msgfil' > $write sys$output "File: ",msgfil > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Goto Loop > $Exit: > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 If .Not. Found Then Write Sys$Output "No message found for = ",P1 > $ =A0 =A0 =A0 Exit 1 + (0 * F$Verify(Verif)) > > > > H Vlems wrote: > > > Ken, where is TRYMSG.COM to be found, freeware cd? > > Hans- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven - > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven - Dank je wel Jur. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:57:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: SSH break-in attempts Message-ID: <36fa8149-96b5-4162-88a1-6f2593c0baff@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Sep 21, 12:32=A0am, s...@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > =A0 =A0SSH break-in attempts seem to be getting more frequent these days. > I'm (still) using: > > =A0 HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 7 > =A0 on a COMPAQ Professional Workstation XP1000 running OpenVMS V7.3-2 > > with an SSH service limit of 64, which helps to limit the duration of a > typical attack, because the attackers appear to leave connections open > long enough to hit the limit. =A0After an OPCOM message like: "INTERnet > ACP SSH Reject Request - service limit - from Host: 210.48.157.82 Port: > 45443", the attack ends, and then, over a period of some minutes, the > connections are cleared out, so normal operation can resume. > > =A0 =A0With a higher service limit, the attacks run longer, wasting > resources. =A0With a smaller limit, an attack becomes a (temporary) denia= l > of service, until some of the connections dissipate. > > =A0 =A0It seems to me that a useful feature would be a per-IP-address > connection limit. =A0I could easily live with no more than, say, 16 SSH > connections from any particular IP address, and if an attacker hit that > kind of limit, it would not interfere with connections coming from more > legitimate sources. > > =A0 =A0Anyone else think that this might be useful? =A0(Or is it already = in > some new TCPIP version?) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > =A0 =A0Steven M. Schweda =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 sms@antinode-info > =A0 =A0382 South Warwick Street =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(+1) 651-699-9818 > =A0 =A0Saint Paul =A0MN =A055105-2547 Just an FYI, from SANS last week http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=3D5047 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:27:13 -0700 From: Alan Frisbie Subject: Re: SSH break-in attempts Message-ID: Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Alan Frisbie wrote: >> Peter Weaver wrote: >>> $ search TCPIP$SSH_RUN.LOG;* 'sysrem_node /status >> I have never seen the /Status switch on Search before, > > There isn't any. Should be /STATISTICS. > On 8.3 /STATISTICS now creates a few symbols... I have gone through the v8.3 DCL manual, the Release Notes, and the New Features manual, and the HELP facility, but cannot find anything about the symbols. I must be blind. Where is this feature documented? Also, has anyone come up with something similar to this "tarpit" feature for FTP connections? My day would be complete if I could eliminate that group of script kiddies. Thanks, Alan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:19:42 -0400 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Strange occurance when mixing "set proc/unit=byte" and pipe Message-ID: <7dd80f60809242119u65f4dc99o920d50298cb6724c@mail.gmail.com> I noticed a very strange (reproducible) bug today on both V7.3-2 and v8.3-1h1 Do the following: $ set proc/unit=byte $ sho dev d/mou ! this is fine -- the free space shows as bytes $ pipe sho dev d/mou ! this is also fine $ pipe sho dev d/mou | type sys$pipe ! what happened? the free space shows as blocks $ pipe sho dev d/mou/un=by | type sys$pipe ! ok again, but I shouldn't have do that This also happens when you pipe the output of the directory/size command to another process. I've also post this on the ITRC forums at Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:55:59 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Text file generated by a Cobol application Message-ID: apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote: > Hi: > I´m a newbie in VMS, and I´m looking for a way to remove > all hidden characters in a text file to get only pure text. > Thanks I can't think of a tool that will do this automagically! It should be fairly simple, however, to write a small program that checks for alpha-numeric and punctuation characters only. What problem are you trying to solve? Most text files are ALREADY pure text! Some programs may insert for line breaks but, other than that, I can't think of any reason that a program should insert weird characters in a text file! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:48:03 -0400 From: "Steven Underwood" Subject: Re: Text file generated by a Cobol application Message-ID: "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message news:OaidnU_L0shMWEfVnZ2dnUVZ_srinZ2d@comcast.com... > apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote: >> Hi: >> I´m a newbie in VMS, and I´m looking for a way to remove >> all hidden characters in a text file to get only pure text. >> Thanks > > I can't think of a tool that will do this automagically! It should be > fairly simple, however, to write a small program that checks for > alpha-numeric and punctuation characters only. > > What problem are you trying to solve? Most text files are ALREADY pure > text! Some programs may insert for line breaks but, other than > that, I can't think of any reason that a program should insert weird > characters in a text file! > Not to stomp on the OP's problem, but while I was working on a text to PDF program, I came across a couple of our reports that print on the line printer just fine, but if you type or convert them, it looks like LF's (not CR) that are interpreted by the PDF converter and type as CR/LF. Looking at the Cobol code to figure this out, they write some data, seem to do a CR and insert that number of spaces then insert the next set of data, another CR, another insert of spaces (to the same column they were prining on) and more data. I'm thinking (not being a Cobol programmer) it was some kind of buffer problem but the night operator (who was a programmer for many years before semi-retirement) mentioned it might have been a timing issue for the serial printers of the time. So it is possible something like this is being seen. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:43:19 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Text file generated by a Cobol application Message-ID: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >In article , apogeusistemas@gmail.com writes: >> Hi: >> I=B4m a newbie in VMS, and I=B4m looking for a way to remove >> all hidden characters in a text file to get only pure text. >> Thanks > I'll assume that "=B4" is MIME for one of the Microsoft "smart > quotes". Please turn them off, quotes that can only be read on MS > stuff are pretty dumb. Actually the character set used is ISO-8859-1 which is nearly identical to the ISO-LATIN-1 used by DEC equipment since the VT220. However, it was posted using Google Groups which encodes 8 bit characters as MIME/ quoted-printable, producing the "=B4" if using a newsreader that doesn't understand quoted-printable. The character used is the "acute accent" which to many people looks like another apostrophe. Which brings up a question: Does anyone know of a newsreader for VMS that properly handles MIME and quoted-printable, and preferably character sets beyond straight ASCII and ISO-8859-1? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:58:42 -0500 From: VMS is Virus Free Subject: What creates .RND files? Message-ID: <143ld496hj1usap66n8eef31ngulbc88o2@4ax.com> We have a VMS V8.3 system running Multinet and Oracle Rdb. Other than Rdb, it is pretty much a run-of-the-mill VMS system. When analyzing our disks, we found there to be a bunch of .RND;1 files, just one each, in everyone's top level directory. Each file is exactly 2 blocks long. A dump shows just random binary values. So, true to its name, it does look like random data. We connect to the system with both telnet and SSH from Windows systems (PuTTY and CRT) and from other VMS system. There is even some SET HOST activity still going on as we continue to support LAT. I seem to recall from somewhere in the past the Rdb created these files as pat of its normal operations. I also know that SSH likes to have a random seed here an there. I've Googled this condition but did not find anything definite. This is mostly curiosity as to where they come from. Any ideas? ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.517 ************************