INFO-VAX Fri, 17 Oct 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 560 Contents: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: DS10 front access storage cage (3X-BA10B-AA) OT: Shuttle Columbia Disaster Re: PC Systems for sale Linux/XP Pro Re: PC Systems for sale Linux/XP Pro Re: Status of Intel's Common System Interconnect ? Re: strange disk states What does this mean? Re: What does this mean? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:29:23 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: In article <4e7d7ecb-53d1-4aba-9a7b-a874889a7d16@u28g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Doug Phillips writes: > There's the old joke about the guy called in to fix a company's > computer. He spends a couple of minutes looking at it, pulls out a > little hammer from his kit, taps the computer on the side and it > starts working immediately. He says "That'll be $1,000" and the > manager says "This is outrageous! I want an itemization of your > charges!" So the guys fills out an invoice that says: "Computer > repair, Tapping computer with hammer $10.00, Knowing where to tap > $990." I heard this with Edison instead of the company manager and Tesla instead of the fixit guy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:34:35 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: Ken.Fairfield@gmail.com wrote: > On Oct 15, 7:50 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > >>In article , "Ed Dennison" >> >> writes: >> >>>>I agree! MOUNT/NOASSIST in the startup, especially if you expect things >>>>to come up automatically out of the box after, say, an emergency reboot, >>>>power failure etc. >> >>>At startup you should not need to specify /NOASSIST. This should - in >>>theory - be the default. >>>VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM sets up the symbol 'mount' and equates it to >>>'mount/noassist'. >>>So long as this procedure runs (and you spell 'mount' correctly) you should >>>not need to use the /NOASSIST qualifier. >> >>I guess the OP had a procedure which was not called from the startup >>procedure, but was submitted as a batch job, run as a detached process >>etc---otherwise he wouldn't have had the problem. > > > Or abbreviated "mount": the symbol is defined so: > > $mount := mount/noassist > > with no asterisk to allow truncation. Or systartup_vms.com redefines mount back to "mount/assist", or removes the redefinition of mount ($ delete/symbol mount), or does an explicit "$ mount/assist...", etc. There are infinite ways an ingenious system mangler can muck things up! We really need to see systartup_vms.com to know for sure. > > BTW, I *always* fully spell out DCL command verbs > and symbols in *procedures* I write, including > SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, etc.. I can't tell you how > many old procedures I encounter have things like "del" > and "cop" in them for no apparent reason, or "say" with > no local definition (as Write Sys$Output). I fix them if > I have to touch them. A truly excellent standard practice. > > -Ken -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:16:24 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: John Sauter wrote: > PR wrote (excerpted): > >> >> I'm seriously debating on whether or not to invoice them, and how much >> to invoice them for. You guys solved the issue and incidentally, made >> me look good to the customer. (Thanks!) I don't really think I should >> invoice them because of that. :) >> >> On the other hand, if I don't reinforce the lesson, I run the risk of >> it being repeated. Gads... I am not really sure of the right thing to >> do in this case. >> >> -Paul > > > You should definitely invoice them. I once took a call from a customer > who couldn't get his NewTek Video Toaster to work. My technician was > out, and the customer was just down the road, so I closed the store and > went to see what was the matter. It took me five minutes to see that he > had a switch set wrong, and fix the problem. I told him I'd bill his > school for $10. Rather than have me do that, he paid the $10 out of his > own pocket, on the spot. Worst case scenario (though Bob Koehler may have worse cases :-) Customer got a DELUA (IIRC, though it might have been a KMC-11, part of the same project) to network their old PDP-11/70 to their new VAX 8550... I was there, installing DECnet/E on the PDP, VMS, DECnet, etc. on the VAX, everything was working. I went back home, A few days later, the PDP-11 crashed. After much mucking around, field service fixed some problem completely unrelated to the new comm gear (a disk controller or memory issue, most likely.) Booted the system up, and the network didn't work. Tried all kinds of stuff. Called us. After much rending of clothes and tearing of hair, I realized the symptoms looked suspiciously like the board had its "diagnostics mode" dip switch set. Had them check it. Nope, it's in normal mode. Much more tearing of hair, several sheep and small goats sacrificed, still no good. The customer is getting very nervous, asked me to fly out (to Phoenix from Boston) to look at it. Late late that night, arrived on site, pulled out the expansion box, flipped the dip switch (which was on the edge of the card, accessible without pulling anything out) back to "normal" from "diagnostics" mode, rebooted, everything was fine. They definitely got billed for that one. > > Once when I was responsible for a PDP-10 system, we needed a driver for > a disk controller we were going to buy. I went to talk to the guys at a > nearby service bureau that had previously bought the controller, about > getting the driver they had written. Their technician was willing to > give it to me, but I persuaded their business guy to charge us $1000 for > it (including a year's worth of bug fixes--there weren't any). I wanted > my management to understand that software costs money. > > If you don't invoice them, they will decrease their estimate of your > worth. > > Technical support is like prostitution. You don't want to get a > reputation for giving freebies. > John Sauter (John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com) -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 06:47:25 +0200 From: The Spriteman Subject: Re: DS10 front access storage cage (3X-BA10B-AA) Message-ID: <48f818dd$0$191$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Len Whitwer wrote: > A CHEAP way to go would be to buy a BA356 external shelf or pedestal > and attach to a SCSI controller in the DS10 and then you could run up > to 7 more drives if you want. > > I could sell you the sub-system as below if interested. > > o BA356 7 slot shelf w/power supply $50 > o PCI SCSI controller w/cable $50 > o DS-RZ1CB-VW 4gb disk x 7units $50 > Total $150.00 > > Have many larger drives available form 4GB to 300GB for this shelf. > (Prices vary depending on size) > > Let me know if I can help, > > Len Len, Thnx for the offer, i already have a BA356 with 5*18,2gb and 2*146gb disks. the only problem is that the largegst Logical drive i can make is about 32gb. and that is not enough for me (that's why i want the 2*146gb disks direct connected to the system.) Robin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:30:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Rieck Subject: OT: Shuttle Columbia Disaster Message-ID: <04df5fe5-4eb0-4ed9-a64d-359ec8b937f8@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> NASA should have learned a few lessons from the 1986 Challenger disaster (listen to the engineers) but they didn't (listen to the engineers) and so the Space Shuttle Columbia was destroyed in 2003 because they didn't listen to the engineers. I'm a fan of the manned space program but NASA has morphed from an organization of "Scientists and Engineers" to an organization of "Politicians and Bureaucrats" with Dilbert as their mascot. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/columbia/ You can watch the whole program online. Check out the part in 1993 where NASA decides to save money by outsourcing shuttle refurbishment to the private sector. (30,000 workers are downsized to 15,000) Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/OpenVMS.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:53:44 -0400 From: "David Turner, islandco.com" Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Linux/XP Pro Message-ID: <48LJk.49134$bx1.16580@bignews1.bellsouth.net> You're right - take off $1.00 and we'll install it for a loss ! -- David B Turner ============================================= Island Computers US Corp PO Box 86 Tybee GA 31328 Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 Email: dturner@islandco.com International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 Fax: 912 786 8505 Web: www.islandco.com ============================================= wrote in message news:00A81310.CFE258FA@SendSpamHere.ORG... > In article , "David Turner, > islandco.com" writes: >>OK then... to satisfy those >> >>How about this >> >>Very quick >> >>NEW Island Datastore P2Duo Syhstems >> >>These have become very popular with our customers as we can still sell NEW >>XP Pro with these >> >>Intel P2CoreDuo 3Ghz Minitower >>ASUS Motherboard >>2GB Memory (2 x 1GB DDR2) >>512MB Nvidia Graphics >>250GB SATAII Disk >>CD/DVDRW-DL >>On Board Gigabit >>Keytronic Heavy Duty Keyboard and Mouse (Old IBM Style) >> >>Total Per System $680 >> >>Add $140 for Windows XP Pro SP2+3 + SIMH (for VMS on PeeCee) >>Add $0 for Ubuntu 8.04 >>Add $159 for 17" Widescreen 1440x900 5ms >> >>Shipping within the US: $26 >> >>3 Year Warranty > > I think you're gouging us on the Ubuntu price! :) :) :) > > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional > protection > no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. > (NJSC) > > Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article > outside > of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this > copyright > notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:55:57 -0700 (PDT) From: PR Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Linux/XP Pro Message-ID: On Oct 16, 9:03=A0am, "David Turner, islandco.com" wrote: > OK then... to satisfy those > > How about this > > Very quick > > NEW Island Datastore P2Duo Syhstems > > These have become very popular with our customers as we can still sell NE= W > XP Pro with these > > Intel P2CoreDuo 3Ghz Minitower > ASUS Motherboard > 2GB Memory (2 x 1GB DDR2) > 512MB Nvidia Graphics > 250GB SATAII Disk > CD/DVDRW-DL > On Board Gigabit > Keytronic Heavy Duty Keyboard and Mouse (Old IBM Style) > > Total Per System $680 > > Add $140 for Windows XP Pro SP2+3 =A0+ SIMH =A0(for VMS on PeeCee) > Add $0 for Ubuntu 8.04 > Add $159 for 17" Widescreen 1440x900 5ms > > Shipping within the US: $26 > > 3 Year Warranty > > -- > David B Turner > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Island Computers US Corp > PO Box 86 > Tybee GA 31328 > > Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 > Email: dtur...@islandco.com > International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 > Fax: 912 786 8505 > Web:www.islandco.com Man, it kinda sounds good, but about $200 too high I think. I know, you have to make a living, but PC's are becoming commodity priced, at least for now. With China in a meltdown, I expect to see prices rise dramatically, and soon. But in any case, the 3ghz processor is fast, but a quad core at 2.24ghz will actually perform as well, or better. And the little Dell I just configured below is $799. With free shipping. Man, I don't know how you folks manage to compete. But I would buy from you if I needed a new PC. The keyboard alone would sell me. :) (I edited this into a readable format.) Date 10/16/2008 8:41:27 PM Central Standard Time Catalog Number 29 Retail 19 Studio Mini-Tower: Intel=AE Core=99 2 Quad processor Q6600 (8MB L2, 2.4GHz, 1066FSB) RMQ66H Genuine Windows Vista=AE Home Premium Edition SP1 1Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis 19 inch SE198WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel Monitor 3GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz- 4DIMMs 500GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache=99 16X DVD+/-RW Drive Integrated Intel=AE GMA X4500HD Graphics Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio Dell Multimedia Keyboard and Premium Optical USB Mouse Floppy Drive and Media Reader: Integrated 16-in-1 Media Card Reader Mouse included with Keyboard purchase Adobe=AE Acrobat=AE Reader 9.0 Multi-Language Integrated 10/1000 Ethernet Windows Vista=99 Premium McAfee SecurityCenter with anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, 30-Days Microsoft Works 9.0 Dell Online Backup 2GB for 1 year ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:09:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: Status of Intel's Common System Interconnect ? Message-ID: On Oct 11, 8:20=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > I lost track of what has been and hasn't been released yet. Has Intel > released any CSI (or whatever it name might be this week) based systems > yet on either the 8086 or Ia64 architectures ? > > If so, have any vendors started to assemble such systems and start to > market/sell them ? > > Is this something that is coming real soon now, or have there been > delays that put this well into next year ? > > During a presentation 2 years ago, an HP guy had said that HP might not > adopt CSI for its IA64 based systems since it has its own proprietary > chips. Does anyone know if this is still true ? Or will HP adopt the CSI > =A0for both 8086 and IA64 systems ? > > At the motherboard level, would components such as those used to build > "blades" have to be changed to interface betwen the blade system > architecture and the motherboard's CSI interface ? Or are those > connected at a higher level or abstraction and not affected by CSI ? As others have already posted, Intel's new "Core i7" product will support Quickpath http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Nehalem_(microarchitecture) BTW, under the Nehalem brand you will see both quadcode and octacore variants. Quadcores should be out by Q4 of 2008. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/OpenVMS.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:38:11 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: strange disk states Message-ID: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article , John Santos > writes: > > >>Looks pretty strange. >> >>(If you did a "show device" for a single shadow set (e.g. $ show device >>dsa510:, or a single member disk (e.g. $ show device $44$DKA400:), it >>would list the shadow set (DSA) disk followed by all the members, which >>would be a little easier to read. I missread the status of DSA510: at >>first due to the info being scattered all over the place.) > > > SHOW DEVICE DSA510: reports the same: one member in state copying (34% > now) and one in state merging (0% merged). > Yes, I would expect to show the same information, just grouped differently to make it easier to read. > >>Anyway, I expect if a two member shadowset were being merged and you >>added a third member, you would see the first two *both* in merge >>state, with the 3rd member as a copy target, but that's *not* what >>you see. > > > Right---all my shadow sets have just two members. > > >>You see a 2-member set with one as merging, and the 2nd as a copy >>target... Was there originally a third member (maybe on NADILA?) > > > No. NADILA mounts the shadow set when booted (it's a satellite and my > most powerful system---ALPHAserver 1200---but to keep power costs down I > boot it only when needed (using when running CSWB)). I've never even > experimented with a three-member shadow set. In any case, all was OK > AFTER the last shutdown of Nadila; when the problem occurred, NADILA was > not in the cluster and hasn't been booted since then. > > >>that was originally in merge state, but got dismounted before the >>merge completed? I think in this case, it show change the remaining >>member to "member" status, and the copy should proceed from it, so >>the status would resemble DSA520:, but maybe there's a bug if a >>copy is in progress at the same time as the merge, and you drop >>one of the "merging" disks, it doesn't change the status of the >>other one. > > > Maybe. > > >>P.S. I know who R. Daneel Steele > > > That's R. Daneel Olivaw (in THE CAVES OF STEEL, among other books) Oh, right! Wasn't there a robot somewhere named "Steele"? Or am I confusing Daneel with trashy novelist Danielle Steele? :-( I really *do* need to re-read them! > > >>is, and Gladia and Elijah, but >>who is Nadila? (It's been a while since I read any old Asimov.) > > > A minor character, IIRC from THE NAKED SUN. When I set up my cluster, I > made a list of 6-character names in Asimov's works. There are quite a > few. Many are minor characters, but Palver and Mallow are relatively > major. I think the mode of the distribution is actually at 6 > characters. Also, ALPHAs get female characters and VAXes get male ones. > :-) > You could use planets to name your clusters (or subnets; didn't you used to have one in England and one in Germany?) Aurora IIRC was the planet with the 1000-1 robot/human ratio in The Naked Sun. Trantor is too long, though. -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:00:58 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: What does this mean? Message-ID: The VMS 7.3-2 command: HELP DEFINE /KEY PARA Provides this in the text: "You can also press Ctrl/V to enable keys F7 to F14. Note that Ctrl/V will not enable the F6 key." What does this mean? Ctrl/V appears to do nothing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:26:06 -0700 (PDT) From: David B Sneddon Subject: Re: What does this mean? Message-ID: <5873d737-ff8a-41ed-9847-b14266ba3430@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com> On Oct 16, 8:00 pm, tadamsmar wrote: > The VMS 7.3-2 command: > > HELP DEFINE /KEY PARA > > Provides this in the text: > > "You can also press Ctrl/V to enable keys F7 to F14. Note that Ctrl/V > will not enable the F6 key." > > What does this mean? > > Ctrl/V appears to do nothing. example: (on my keyboard) pressing F8 does nothing $ define/key F8 help pressing F8 does nothing pressing ctrl/V THEN F8 does something Dave ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.560 ************************