INFO-VAX Wed, 29 Oct 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 584 Contents: Re: Bell Labs closes Re: Bell Labs closes Re: Bell Labs closes Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Re: Fortran, debugger and Alpha/VMS 7.3-2 Re: Fortran, debugger and Alpha/VMS 7.3-2 Re: Fortran, debugger and Alpha/VMS 7.3-2 Re: Fortran, debugger and Alpha/VMS 7.3-2 How can you monitor which process/executable accesses a global section sectionse Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Re: supported SCSI interfaces in a VMS cluster Re: supported SCSI interfaces in a VMS cluster Re: test: is google groups stuck ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:33:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes Message-ID: <7f622322-cdd2-4e3b-b0f2-1799115859a0@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 26, 3:00=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Neil Rieck wrote: > > the UNIX operating system and the C programming language), Bell Labs > > is closing. What has happened to the sputnik society? > > As I read the article, it made it look much more like what Hurd did to > HP's R&D department (HP Labs ?) than "closing". The article says that > Alcatel will get Bell Labs to focus on marketable products instead of > toy around with =A0esoteric concepts. > > The USA has so far survived because of R&D allowing it to be first to > market with new products (especially in IT and telecom), and =A0asia > eventually manufacturing them at lower cost under contract. > > When the chinese start to get their own R&D efforts like Bell Labs, > watch out. They will truly rule the world. > > And world economics will have to change. The current system is based on > some balanced flow of goods/money between countries. Not sure it can > support a very large country like the USA living almost entirely on > imported goods and exporting very little. > > In the case of Cars, the USA may have been importing lots of cars from > Canada, but the profits from making cars in Canada all went back to the > USA (because GM/Chrysler/Ford are based in USA). So it is a fairly > balanced exchange. > > When Kraft Australia exports cheese to Japan, profits end up eventually > flowing back to Kraft's USA headquarters and shareholders. So while it > doesn't affect USA trade numbers, it does help the balance of payments. > > But when you have chinese owned industries exporting goods to the USA, > the profits stay in China and the trade imbalance is very big. > > Companies like Digital lived because they thought they could charge a > premium for their products. Instead of trimming down and charging less > to be competitive, they got fat and charged a bigger premium. And when > they charges a premium, they were profitable and had spare cash to fund > esoteric projects similar to Bell Labs. > > Those companies that decided to survive, will be trimming down to become > more competitive and may no longer afford to have just esoteric > projects. And this poses an interesting problem: will the western > company be able to compete head to head with China on a cost basis ? The > lack of esoteric research basically ensures that the western company > won't come up with something *totally* new that China won't have. > > For instance, just speculating here, but if HP's Labs are now focused on > building a better plastic box for its ink (and better ink), it won't > produce anything really new. Just allow HP to start adding "new and > improved" labels on its ink boxes for a few months. =A0But if the chinese > sell ink for 1/10 the price of HP's highly marked up prices, HP won't > last very long because it depends so much on its ability to sell > overpriced plastic boxes filled with coloured mix of alchool/water. It's kind of like the tale of two cities. Bell Labs did pure research (paid for by sucking money out of the telephone system) but this research led to cool unexpected inventions, like the transistor, which were marketed quickly. On the flip side, IBM did their own internal research then place many things on the shelf which would be used by IBM sometime in future (this is their right by the way). I think it is safe to say that the western world has moved forward faster as a result of Bell Labs than it did by IBM's activity. What bothers me is that many things now won't get developed unless some bean-counter uses a crystal ball to confirm that the research in question will lead to a return on investment in one to two financial quarters. Welcome to the new age of incremental improvements. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/OpenVMS.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:16:25 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes Message-ID: <0891f8a0-5143-4d78-b62a-bff08c168e5c@p49g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Oct 27, 9:44 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys...@spam.comcast.net] > > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:27 PM > > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > > > Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes > > > [snip] > > > Change for the sake of change rarely produces anything positive. > > > > Change where change is appropriate usually leads to a more desirable > > > result than the status quo. > > > Agreed - "planned" change is more desirable than "reactive" change. > > Planned or unplanned, the change has to make sense - not just be change > for the sake of change. > > > However, as the recent financial crisis has shown, sometimes there > > are things that happen that are totally out of your control. > > Well, be careful not to fall into the "victim" mentality there. When we > invest in stocks, etc., we make the conscious choice to accept certain > risks. In essence, we got what we bargained for - just perhaps more than > we expected. His point stands: Regardless of whether you invest or not, the current financial crisis appears not to be in anyone's control! Also: There's a lot more to the current financial crisis than stockholders/ investors/whatever. People who did everything right are finding their home values go down because neighbors are experiencing foreclosure, e.g. I guess you should have checked your crystal ball to see this coming and not have bought your house in that neighborhood, or anywhere for that matter. There could be bank failures. Guess you better buy lots of gold quick, guard it will, or keep your money in your mattress. There could be increasing numbers of unemployed. Remember that unemployment peaked at 25% during the Great Depression. I guess you shouldn't have gotten a job: you risk losing it! [...] > D.J.D. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:21:52 -0700 (PDT) From: PR Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes Message-ID: <675f4942-05ff-4c64-9e29-76ecfdc3ad04@v30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Oct 28, 8:16=A0pm, AEF wrote: > On Oct 27, 9:44 pm, David J Dachtera > wrote: > > > > > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys...@spam.comcast.net] > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:27 PM > > > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > > > > Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes > > > > [snip] > > > > Change for the sake of change rarely produces anything positive. > > > > > Change where change is appropriate usually leads to a more desirabl= e > > > > result than the status quo. > > > > Agreed - "planned" change is more desirable than "reactive" change. > > > Planned or unplanned, the change has to make sense - not just be change > > for the sake of change. > > > > However, as the recent financial crisis has shown, sometimes there > > > are things that happen that are totally out of your control. > > > Well, be careful not to fall into the "victim" mentality there. When we > > invest in stocks, etc., we make the conscious choice to accept certain > > risks. In essence, we got what we bargained for - just perhaps more tha= n > > we expected. > > His point stands: Regardless of whether you invest or not, the current > financial crisis appears not to be in anyone's control! > > Also: > > There's a lot more to the current financial crisis than stockholders/ > investors/whatever. > Of course there is, though the losses experienced by some of the big pension funds is quite enough to make a crisis all by itself. > People who did everything right are finding their home values go down > because neighbors are experiencing foreclosure, e.g. I guess you > should have checked your crystal ball to see this coming and not have > bought your house in that neighborhood, or anywhere for that matter. > Real Estate is, and always has been a long term investment. Over 20 or 30 years, Real Estate is still a very safe investment. Gold is a safer investment, but it is a bit easier to steal. The people really being burned are the people who bought into the buy it and flip it mentality. That works only as long as cheap mortgage money is available, and in some ways, is like a Ponzi scheme. > There could be bank failures. Guess you better buy lots of gold quick, > guard it will, or keep your money in your mattress. > Well, bank failure is the least of the worries right now, the government guarantees your bank account. Now a failure of the government is a something that would hurt, but in truth, our government is pretty stable. We didn't even have riots after the 2000 election. A lot of folks in other countries (not GB and Canada :) were mystified by that. > There could be increasing numbers of unemployed. Remember that > unemployment peaked at 25% during the Great Depression. I guess you > shouldn't have gotten a job: you risk losing it! > [...] > The work for yourself. You will always have a job, even though you might do bankrupt. ;) -Paul > > D.J.D. > > AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:22:44 -0400 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Message-ID: In article <49063ada$0$12403$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei wrote: > It is a real shame that the VMS engineers ran some program to > purposefully make that code difficult to read. The PostScript code compression was done so that it could be sent faster over slow lines to the printer. These days I suspect that savings is unimportant. Paul -- Paul Anderson OpenVMS Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: 28 Oct 2008 14:41:59 -0400 From: brooks@cuebid.ovms.usa.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) Subject: Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Message-ID: Paul Anderson writes: > JF Mezei wrote: > >> It is a real shame that the VMS engineers ran some program to >> purposefully make that code difficult to read. > > The PostScript code compression was done so that it could be sent faster > over slow lines to the printer. These days I suspect that savings is > unimportant. > > Paul I think you should make that DCPS_DIET tool available for general use . . . -- Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:56:10 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 006803D5852574F0_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" brooks@cuebid.ovms.usa.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) wrote on 10/28/2008 02:41:59 PM: > Paul Anderson writes: > > JF Mezei wrote: > > > >> It is a real shame that the VMS engineers ran some program to > >> purposefully make that code difficult to read. > > > > The PostScript code compression was done so that it could be sent faster > > over slow lines to the printer. These days I suspect that savings is > > unimportant. > > > > Paul > > I think you should make that DCPS_DIET tool available for general use . . How about a DCPS_PIG_OUT tool for JF and others that want to uncompress? > > -- > > Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com --=_alternative 006803D5852574F0_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
brooks@cuebid.ovms.usa.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) wrote on 10/28/2008 02:41:59 PM:

> Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> writes:
> >  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> It is a real shame that the VMS engineers ran some program to
> >> purposefully make that code difficult to read.
> >
> > The PostScript code compression was done so that it could be sent faster
> > over slow lines to the printer.  These days I suspect that savings is
> > unimportant.
> >
> > Paul
>
> I think you should make that DCPS_DIET tool available for general use . . .


How about a DCPS_PIG_OUT tool for JF and others that want to uncompress?

>
> --
>
> Rob Brooks    MSL -- Nashua         brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com
--=_alternative 006803D5852574F0_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:13:42 -0400 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Message-ID: In article , brooks@cuebid.ovms.usa.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) wrote: > I think you should make that DCPS_DIET tool available for general use . . . I just yelled at Rob for making this suggestion. But he's sometimes right about things, so I wonder if there's interest in having DCPS ship a "reference copy" of the DCPS library in an uncompressed, more readable form. I think we'd keep the existing library compressed in case someone needs some extra speed on their serially-attached LN03. The tool, by the way, is called PSCom and it was written by Ned Batchelder over twenty years ago. It does lots more stuff, like allow for conditional execution of code, via IF/ENDIF and INCLUDE statements, stripping of comments and (as noted) compression of PostScript code. Paul -- Paul Anderson OpenVMS Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:09:29 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Message-ID: <00A81CA8.67165362@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , Paul Anderson writes: >In article , > brooks@cuebid.ovms.usa.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) wrote: > >> I think you should make that DCPS_DIET tool available for general use . . . > >I just yelled at Rob for making this suggestion. But he's sometimes >right about things, so I wonder if there's interest in having DCPS ship >a "reference copy" of the DCPS library in an uncompressed, more readable >form. I think we'd keep the existing library compressed in case someone >needs some extra speed on their serially-attached LN03. Mine is running over a 300baud pennywihistle. :) >The tool, by the way, is called PSCom and it was written by Ned >Batchelder over twenty years ago. It does lots more stuff, like allow >for conditional execution of code, via IF/ENDIF and INCLUDE statements, >stripping of comments and (as noted) compression of PostScript code. Please ship a refernece library. It would be quite useful and inform- ative. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:52:04 -0700 From: Alan Frisbie Subject: Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Message-ID: Paul Anderson wrote: > The tool, by the way, is called PSCom and it was written by Ned > Batchelder over twenty years ago. It does lots more stuff, like allow > for conditional execution of code, via IF/ENDIF and INCLUDE statements, > stripping of comments and (as noted) compression of PostScript code. I would find this *extremely* useful. I write code that takes a Postscript template file, "fills in the blanks", and sends it to the printer. Since I like my templates to be easy to read & modify, they get rather large. I think this will speed things up. Also, the IF/ENDIF functionality would make my life a lot easier. Can they be nested? Please make this tool available. Thanks, Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:44:30 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DCPS setpagedevice PS error on a Xerox WCP 35 Message-ID: <0352eaf7$0$2170$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Paul Anderson wrote: > so I wonder if there's interest in having DCPS ship > a "reference copy" of the DCPS library in an uncompressed, more readable > form. YES ! YES ! YES ! Consider this current problem the user is having. Having human readable postcript code would greatly help debug such problems. I would personally prefer pure postscript (with the #IFDEF etc processed) so that it makes it easier to look at the actual postscript code and not have to guess what is really being sent to the printer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:36:09 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Fortran, debugger and Alpha/VMS 7.3-2 Message-ID: <7e4908f9-9e5b-4408-bd72-d7c198b5622f@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com> On Oct 28, 1:43=A0am, "David Weatherall" wrote: > We finally upgraded the Alphas in our cluster from V7.3-1 to -2 last > week. As expected, we never saw any problem until my colleague needed > to use the debugger with her Fortran (V7.5...) program. > > It contains a Structure/record like > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 structure /asd$record/ > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0character*36 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 asd_name > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0character*36 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 efile_name > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0character*12 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 other_name > ... > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 end structure > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 record /asd$record/ asd_record > > In the debugger we can > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 EXA ASD_RECORD > > without problem but > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 EXA ASD_RECORD.ASD_NAME > > generates the following error :- > > %DEBUG-E-INTERR, debugger error in DBGADDEXP\DETERMINE_TYPE unknown arg > type or session corruption > > T'was fine on 7.3-1. Anybody know what's going on? John? > > Kristine, my colleague, is less than impressed. > > Cheers - Dave > > Now that I look at it, the $ in asd$record is a bit suspicious perhaps. > > -- I just tried it on a 7.3-2 system and it worked. But, my Fortran ver is 7.2-180 My fortran symbol was: "FORTRAN /NOLIST /DEBUG /NOOPT /NOALIGN / CHECK=3D(BOUN,FP_E,OVER,NOUNDE) /WARN=3D(NOALIGN,NOUNINIT)/EXTEND" Perhaps you should get your patches up to date if you have not done so. Mine are pretty close to up to date, (within a year or so maybe). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:51:14 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Fortran, debugger and Alpha/VMS 7.3-2 Message-ID: On Oct 28, 1:43=A0am, "David Weatherall" wrote: > We finally upgraded the Alphas in our cluster from V7.3-1 to -2 last > week. As expected, we never saw any problem until my colleague needed > to use the debugger with her Fortran (V7.5...) program. > > It contains a Structure/record like > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 structure /asd$record/ > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0character*36 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 asd_name > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0character*36 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 efile_name > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0character*12 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 other_name > ... > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 end structure > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 record /asd$record/ asd_record > > In the debugger we can > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 EXA ASD_RECORD > > without problem but > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 EXA ASD_RECORD.ASD_NAME > > generates the following error :- > > %DEBUG-E-INTERR, debugger error in DBGADDEXP\DETERMINE_TYPE unknown arg > type or session corruption > > T'was fine on 7.3-1. Anybody know what's going on? John? > > Kristine, my colleague, is less than impressed. > > Cheers - Dave > > Now that I look at it, the $ in asd$record is a bit suspicious perhaps. > > -- I tried it on 7.3-2 with Compaq Fortran 77 V7.2-180-4293Q It worked fine. Complied with these switches: FOR*TRAN =3D=3D "FORTRAN /NOLIST /DEBUG /NOOPT /NOALIGN / CHECK=3D(BOUN,FP_E,OVER,NOUNDE) /WARN=3D(NOALIGN,NOUNINIT)/EXTEND" Suggest you make sure your patches are up-to-date. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Oct 2008 05:11:28 GMT From: "David Weatherall" Subject: Re: Fortran, debugger and Alpha/VMS 7.3-2 Message-ID: <6mq9k0Fi30ufU1@mid.individual.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <6mnn33Fhnpk7U1@mid.individual.net>, "David Weatherall" > writes: > > We finally upgraded the Alphas in our cluster from V7.3-1 to -2 last > > week. As expected, we never saw any problem until my colleague > > needed to use the debugger with her Fortran (V7.5...) program. > > > > It contains a Structure/record like > > > > structure /asd$record/ > > character*36 asd_name > > character*36 efile_name > > character*12 other_name > > ... > > end structure > > > > record /asd$record/ asd_record > > I don't know what specifically is causing your problem, but I would > not define anything with $ in the name. Generally $ should be > considered reserved to VMS. You might be tripping over some VMS > factility named asd (although I don't know of any). > > Try > > structure /asd_record_type/ > character*36 asd_name > character*36 efile_name > character*12 other_name > ... > end structure > > record /asd_record_type/ asd_record Thanks Bob had the same thought and it was the first thing I did when I got to work yesterday morning. Sadly no change. Our SysMan has raised a call on HP now. We'll see what they come up with. Cheers - Dave -- ------------------------------ Date: 29 Oct 2008 05:17:27 GMT From: "David Weatherall" Subject: Re: Fortran, debugger and Alpha/VMS 7.3-2 Message-ID: <6mq9v7Fhuul0U1@mid.individual.net> tadamsmar wrote: > On Oct 28, 1:43 am, "David Weatherall" wrote: > > We finally upgraded the Alphas in our cluster from V7.3-1 to -2 last > > week. As expected, we never saw any problem until my colleague > > needed to use the debugger with her Fortran (V7.5...) program. > > > > It contains a Structure/record like > > > >         structure /asd$record/ > >            character*36         asd_name > >            character*36         efile_name > >            character*12         other_name > > ... > >         end structure > > > >         record /asd$record/ asd_record > > > > In the debugger we can > > > >         EXA ASD_RECORD > > > > without problem but > > > >         EXA ASD_RECORD.ASD_NAME > > > > generates the following error :- > > > > %DEBUG-E-INTERR, debugger error in DBGADDEXP\DETERMINE_TYPE unknown > > arg type or session corruption > > > > T'was fine on 7.3-1. Anybody know what's going on? John? > > > > Kristine, my colleague, is less than impressed. > > > > Cheers - Dave > > > > Now that I look at it, the $ in asd$record is a bit suspicious > > perhaps. > > > > -- > > I just tried it on a 7.3-2 system and it worked. > > But, my Fortran ver is 7.2-180 > > My fortran symbol was: > > "FORTRAN /NOLIST /DEBUG /NOOPT /NOALIGN / > CHECK=(BOUN,FP_E,OVER,NOUNDE) /WARN=(NOALIGN,NOUNINIT)/EXTEND" > > > Perhaps you should get your patches up to date if you have not done > so. Mine are pretty close to up to date, (within a year or so > maybe). Thanks our Fortran version is 7.5 somethings. I've tried it with two standards. I didn't want to update our Fortran compiler to the latest standard because I'm in a position to do 'incremental Q/A' that way. If I upgrade and can't produce a bit-compatible .EXE I have to do the 3-week Q/A job all over again. Partly because of the rules and partly for peace of mind. Thomas, our SysMAn, is sure that he applied all patches when he upgraded two weeks ago. Could you an ANALYZE /IMAGE on the debugger .EXE please. Cheers - Dave. -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:57:07 -0700 From: Jeff Cameron Subject: How can you monitor which process/executable accesses a global section sectionse Message-ID: What is the best way to find out what process/executable is accessing a specific global section? Can you just use something like: SET SECURITY/ACL=(ALARM=SECURITY,ACCESS=EXECUTE+SUCCESS) Thank you in advance? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:43:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Message-ID: From OpenVMS.ORG http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=08/10/24/9322255 I may try to get this downloaded this weekend to try. Has anyone used it or the previous itanium port yet? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:01:17 +0100 (CET) From: BRAD@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Message-ID: In article , Rich Jordan wrote: >From OpenVMS.ORG > >http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=08/10/24/9322255 Thanks for the heads-up. >I may try to get this downloaded this weekend to try. Has anyone used >it or the previous itanium port yet? Please don't take my word as gospel, since I seem to be the only person in the known VMS universe that has this problem, but neither Mozilla *nor* seamonkey work for me. To SMS - "work" means a working display. DECW$CLOCK and DecWindows terminals (and all the other DECW "stuff") work fine, but Mozilla/Seamonkey either hangs or ACCVIO's. I've detailed my woes on ITRC, and even had HP's help. Their final verdict - create a fresh system disk from scratch. Since nothing else (even other open-source apps) fails, I'm a little hesitant to rebuild from scratch. Other than that, I'm sure it's a fine product, and kudos to VMS Engineering for porting it. I guess I'll just have to admire it from afar. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:41:30 -0700 (PDT) From: David B Sneddon Subject: Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Message-ID: On Oct 29, 6:43=A0am, Rich Jordan wrote: > From OpenVMS.ORG > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=3D08/10/24/9322255 > > I may try to get this downloaded this weekend to try. =A0Has anyone used > it or the previous itanium port yet? I installed it on Monday and haven't had any issues with it. It seems to have a few less memory leaks than the last version and may even be a bit faster (no empirical data to support that - just a feel). This is on Alpha... VMS V8.3 Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:51:18 -0600 From: Dan O'Reilly Subject: Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20081028175042.0204eaf0@raptor.psccos.com> I'm running it on AXP 8.3 on a PWS600au. It's definitely snappier than Mozilla was. So far, absolutely no problems. At 05:41 PM 10/28/2008, David B Sneddon wrote: >On Oct 29, 6:43 am, Rich Jordan wrote: > > From OpenVMS.ORG > > > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=08/10/24/9322255 > > > > I may try to get this downloaded this weekend to try. Has anyone used > > it or the previous itanium port yet? > >I installed it on Monday and haven't had any issues with it. >It seems to have a few less memory leaks than the last >version and may even be a bit faster (no empirical data to >support that - just a feel). >This is on Alpha... VMS V8.3 > >Dave ------ +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | Dan O'Reilly | "There are 10 types of people in this | | Principal Engineer | world: those who understand binary | | Process Software | and those who don't." | | http://www.process.com | | +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:01:12 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Message-ID: <4907a8e2$0$9651$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Brad Hamilton wrote: > but Mozilla/Seamonkey either hangs > or ACCVIO's. I've detailed my woes on ITRC, and even had HP's help. Their You need about 1 gig of PGFLQUOTA (and matching pagefile.sys file). And grant yourself excessive quotas. Here is what I had given myself: Maxjobs: 0 Fillm: 300 Bytlm: 100000 Maxacctjobs: 0 Shrfillm: 0 Pbytlm: 0 Maxdetach: 0 BIOlm: 50 JTquota: 4096 Prclm: 20 DIOlm: 50 WSdef: 600 Prio: 4 ASTlm: 100 WSquo: 20000 Queprio: 0 TQElm: 50 WSextent: 84000 CPU: (none) Enqlm: 300 Pgflquo: 500000 You also want to turn on OPCOM and monitor all the illegal file accesses in SYS$SYSTEM that it will try to do. Make sure you NEVER ever use Mozilla/Seamonkey with privileges on because it will change protection on many SYS$SYSTEM files and make the app will fail again. All of the mozilla specific files in sys$system (and below) should be w:re only, no ability to write or delete.). It helps to not have a home page. And you probably wanty to have a clean sys$login: (from the moailla directories) so that it gets recreated from scratch. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:08:10 +0100 (CET) From: BRAD@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Message-ID: In article <4907a8e2$0$9651$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei wrote: >Brad Hamilton wrote: >> but Mozilla/Seamonkey either hangs >> or ACCVIO's. I've detailed my woes on ITRC, and even had HP's help. Their > > >You need about 1 gig of PGFLQUOTA (and matching pagefile.sys file). And >grant yourself excessive quotas. > >Here is what I had given myself: > >Maxjobs: 0 Fillm: 300 Bytlm: 100000 >Maxacctjobs: 0 Shrfillm: 0 Pbytlm: 0 >Maxdetach: 0 BIOlm: 50 JTquota: 4096 >Prclm: 20 DIOlm: 50 WSdef: 600 >Prio: 4 ASTlm: 100 WSquo: 20000 >Queprio: 0 TQElm: 50 WSextent: 84000 >CPU: (none) Enqlm: 300 Pgflquo: 500000 Maxjobs: 0 Fillm: 4095 Bytlm: 1122030 Maxacctjobs: 0 Shrfillm: 0 Pbytlm: 0 Maxdetach: 0 BIOlm: 4095 JTquota: 4096 Prclm: 10 DIOlm: 12285 WSdef: 393216 Prio: 4 ASTlm: 12385 WSquo: 393216 Queprio: 0 TQElm: 100 WSextent: 393216 CPU: (none) Enqlm: 4096 Pgflquo: 3145728 Ha, Ha...mine's bigger than yours...:-), except for PRCLM... > >You also want to turn on OPCOM and monitor all the illegal file accesses >in SYS$SYSTEM that it will try to do. Make sure you NEVER ever use >Mozilla/Seamonkey with privileges on because it will change protection >on many SYS$SYSTEM files and make the app will fail again. OPCOM gives no such messages...however, I'm worried about the second sentence - I use Seamonkey with privs. What files get their protections changed? >All of the mozilla specific files in sys$system (and below) should be >w:re only, no ability to write or delete.). > >It helps to not have a home page. And you probably wanty to have a clean >sys$login: (from the moailla directories) so that it gets recreated from >scratch. OK - here's what's been happening, a couple of hours since my initial post: Environment: PWS433au, 768GB memory, VMS 8.3, TCPware V5.8-2 Seamonkey "works" every fourth or fifth invocation; all other invocations create ACCVIO's, all seeming to center around the GTK files. Once I get a "working" display, any attempt to change the "home page" using the Preferences menu either results in "nothing" (the OK button can be pressed, but the Preferences pane does not disappear) or an ACCVIO. Attempting to access mail results in the same "nothing" as above (but no ACCVIO's). Attempting to access Seamonkey from a completely non-priv'ed account results in ACCVIO's, every time. Now of course, this is *much* better than Mozilla, which would do nothing but hang without creating a display, but I suspect that the GTK or Porting libraries that came with that version of Mozilla were somehow incomplete. Even if I could get Seamonkey working reliably, I am not impressed with the response - it is little better than Netscape V3.03 (which "works", after a fashion, but the mail component is flaky, at best). All that being said, I'm still pretty sure that I am "snake-bit", seeing the responses from others here. Thanks for trying to help; perhaps I'll have more luck after a reboot. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:13:30 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Message-ID: <_MONk.3640$U5.23823@newsb.telia.net> Brad Hamilton wrote: > Attempting to access Seamonkey from a completely > non-priv'ed account... You have read in the docs about priv'ed v.s. non-priv'ed accounts for running this software, right ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:41:59 +0100 (CET) From: BRAD@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Message-ID: In article <_MONk.3640$U5.23823@newsb.telia.net>, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >Brad Hamilton wrote: > >> Attempting to access Seamonkey from a completely >> non-priv'ed account... > >You have read in the docs about priv'ed v.s. non-priv'ed >accounts for running this software, right ? Yes, but the illustration in the _Release Notes_ does not match the footprint of the ACCVIO's from a non-priv'ed account (and yes, COMPREG.DAT has the proper file protection, as do all the other CSWB files). There seem to be very few changes in the Release Notes since the move from Mozilla to Seamonkey. If I can't get it working reliably in the near future, I may submit feedback to the team, but of course, I'm hampered by the fact that I'm a hobbyist. That fact did *not* stop HP from attempting to help me when I had problems with Mozilla, but I can't very well expect them to spend a lot of time on an obvious "corner case" like mine. Seamonkey is a "nice to have" feature of VMS, but as many of us know, it's not mission-critical, and is actually out of scope for the mission of selling VMS as a "back-end", off-the-desktop server. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 04:19:58 GMT From: Phaeton Subject: Re: Seamonkey browser port for Alpha now available Message-ID: <4907e46d$1@news.comindico.com.au> On 2008.10.29. 12:08, Brad Hamilton wrote: > In article<4907a8e2$0$9651$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei wrote: >> Brad Hamilton wrote: >>> but Mozilla/Seamonkey either hangs >>> or ACCVIO's. I've detailed my woes on ITRC, and even had HP's help. Their >> >> You need about 1 gig of PGFLQUOTA (and matching pagefile.sys file). And >> grant yourself excessive quotas. >> >> Here is what I had given myself: >> >> Maxjobs: 0 Fillm: 300 Bytlm: 100000 >> Maxacctjobs: 0 Shrfillm: 0 Pbytlm: 0 >> Maxdetach: 0 BIOlm: 50 JTquota: 4096 >> Prclm: 20 DIOlm: 50 WSdef: 600 >> Prio: 4 ASTlm: 100 WSquo: 20000 >> Queprio: 0 TQElm: 50 WSextent: 84000 >> CPU: (none) Enqlm: 300 Pgflquo: 500000 > > Maxjobs: 0 Fillm: 4095 Bytlm: 1122030 > Maxacctjobs: 0 Shrfillm: 0 Pbytlm: 0 > Maxdetach: 0 BIOlm: 4095 JTquota: 4096 > Prclm: 10 DIOlm: 12285 WSdef: 393216 > Prio: 4 ASTlm: 12385 WSquo: 393216 > Queprio: 0 TQElm: 100 WSextent: 393216 > CPU: (none) Enqlm: 4096 Pgflquo: 3145728 > Ha, Ha...mine's bigger than yours...:-), except for PRCLM... > >> You also want to turn on OPCOM and monitor all the illegal file accesses >> in SYS$SYSTEM that it will try to do. Make sure you NEVER ever use >> Mozilla/Seamonkey with privileges on because it will change protection >> on many SYS$SYSTEM files and make the app will fail again. > > OPCOM gives no such messages...however, I'm worried about the second sentence - > I use Seamonkey with privs. What files get their protections changed? > >> All of the mozilla specific files in sys$system (and below) should be >> w:re only, no ability to write or delete.). >> >> It helps to not have a home page. And you probably wanty to have a clean >> sys$login: (from the moailla directories) so that it gets recreated from >> scratch. > > OK - here's what's been happening, a couple of hours since my initial post: > > Environment: PWS433au, 768GB memory, VMS 8.3, TCPware V5.8-2 ^^^^ Nice :-) No need for hard disk, then :-) Cheers, Csaba ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| http://csabaharangozo.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]: Giraffiti: Vandalism spray painted very, very high. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:32:59 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: supported SCSI interfaces in a VMS cluster Message-ID: H Vlems wrote: > - the manual doesn't mention the KZPCM at all, perhaps it is supported > to connect to a common SCSI bus? The official source for what's supported is typically the Software Product Descriptions. Go to http://hp.com/go/spd to find those. Some SCSI adapter support info will be in the OpenVMS SPD at http://docs.hp.com/en/12697/OVMS831H1SPD.pdf (I see it notes there is multi-host support in its description for some SCSI adapters, including the KZPBA-CB), and more specifics on multi-host SCSI support in a cluster will be in the OpenVMS Cluster Software SPD at http://docs.hp.com/en/12700/SPDClusters.pdf. Sometimes support info will be in the Release Notes or New Features or Installation Guide for a given version of OpenVMS. Finally, the OpenVMS Roadmap at http://hp.com/go/openvms/roadmap can provide clues about future (and recent) additions to capabilities. > > - if not supported, will it work (after all this is a hobbyist > environment)? > - if it's not supported and won't work, what's the reason? The host SCSI adapters on different VMS nodes actually briefly talk to one another and exchange just enough info that VMS can avoid conflicts in port allocation class assignments between different systems connected to the same SCSI bus. There was hope at one time that host-to-host communcations over SCSI could be broadened to include SCS traffic in general, but that didn't work out. The NCR chip was the first supported in multi-host configurations and seems to be used in at least many of the SCSI adapters which support multi-host operation on Alpha. If a specific adapter doesn't work, my guess would be that it's probably due to differences in its SCSI interface chip design. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:36:54 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: supported SCSI interfaces in a VMS cluster Message-ID: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Spookily, I read a few lines about this kind of thing in the v8.2 New > Features manual this morning. P3-2 says: > "Fibre Channel is supported as a shared-storage cluster interconenct > on OpenVMS I64 systems but SCSI is not. (SCSI as a shared-storage > clsuter interconnect is also not supported for OpenVMS Alpha systems > for the recent SCSI adapters.)" The OpenVMS Cluster Software SPD at http://docs.hp.com/en/12700/SPDClusters.pdf says: "Beginning with OpenVMS V8.2-1 on Integrity servers, a 2-node shared SCSI environment is provided via the MSA30MI shelf between Integrity Server nodes ONLY." and "Dual-Host SCSI Storage Support (for Integrity Servers) OpenVMS Integrity server systems that are members of the rx1600 and rx2600 families can form a 2-node Open- VMS for Integrity servers Cluster system with shared SCSI storage. The configuration has many restrictions as documented in HP OpenVMS Version 8.2–1 for Integrity Servers New Features and Release Notes." The OpenVMS Roadmap at http://hp.com/go/openvms/roadmap says shared SAS (Serial-Attached SCSI) cluster support for the MSA60/MSA70 is included in 8.3-1H1. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:19:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: test: is google groups stuck Message-ID: <17e8dc67-cb2c-4243-9a9a-91c987fbe6b5@k16g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 27, 6:48=A0am, Neil Rieck wrote: > I posted a few messages to google groups on Sunday but nothing has > appeared (yet). Is google groups broken? > > Neil I posted this early on Sunday so it only took 24 hours to appear ??? Neil ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.584 ************************