From: CRDGW2::CRDGW2::MRGATE::"SMTP::WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL::INFO-ADA-REQUEST" Date: 4-APR-1991 06:28:03 Description: INFO-ADA Digest V91 #77 From: INFO-ADA-REQUEST@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL@SMTP@CRDGW2 To: SWENG@arisia@MRGATE Received: by crdgw1.ge.com (5.57/GE 1.93) id AA20574; Thu, 4 Apr 91 05:00:16 EST Date: Mon, 1 Apr 91 20:15:40 MST From: INFO-ADA-REQUEST@AJPO.SEI.CMU.EDU Reply-To: INFO-ADA-REQUEST@AJPO.SEI.CMU.EDU Subject: INFO-ADA Digest V91 #77 To: INFO-ADA@AJPO.SEI.CMU.EDU Message-Id: <910401201541.V91N77@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL> INFO-ADA Digest Mon, 1 Apr 91 Volume 91 : Issue 77 Today's Topics: Re: Ada lex and yacc (2 msgs) Re: Ada Programming Support Environments (APSEs). Re: Free ADA compiler Re: is C good enough (was: Free ADA compiler) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1 Apr 91 22:00:36 GMT From: uflorida!kluge!scs!mackey@gatech.edu Subject: Re: Ada lex and yacc Message-ID: <3125@kluge.fiu.edu> In article <1991Mar28.193208.17988@afit.af.mil> dumphres@afit.af.mil (David A. Umphress) writes: >I'm teaching a compiler course and would like to get my hands on >a lex and yacc that produce Ada code (instead of the usual C). Can >anyone provide me a pointer? > >David Umphress >dumphres@blackbird.afit.af.mil >(513)255-3708 ftp ics.uci.edu ftp> cd arcadia ftp> ls -la -rw-r--r-- 1 root 160 Mar 25 04:14 Index -rw-r--r-- 1 self 179528 Jan 8 10:35 aflex1pt1b.tar.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 self 42570 Jan 8 10:35 alex-ayacc.utils.tar.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 self 160036 Jan 8 10:36 ayacc.tar.Z ayacc = Ada version of yacc. alex = Ada version of lex. aflex = Ada version of flex. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Apr 91 01:23:01 GMT From: ucivax!self@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (John Self) Subject: Re: Ada lex and yacc Message-ID: <27F7DCF5.24212@ics.uci.edu> In <3125@kluge.fiu.edu> mackey@scs.fiu.edu writes: >In article <1991Mar28.193208.17988@afit.af.mil> dumphres@afit.af.mil (David A. Umphress) writes: >>I'm teaching a compiler course and would like to get my hands on >>a lex and yacc that produce Ada code (instead of the usual C). Can >>anyone provide me a pointer? >> >>David Umphress >>dumphres@blackbird.afit.af.mil >>(513)255-3708 > ftp ics.uci.edu > ftp> cd arcadia > ftp> ls -la > -rw-r--r-- 1 root 160 Mar 25 04:14 Index > -rw-r--r-- 1 self 179528 Jan 8 10:35 aflex1pt1b.tar.Z > -rw-r--r-- 1 self 42570 Jan 8 10:35 alex-ayacc.utils.tar.Z > -rw-r--r-- 1 self 160036 Jan 8 10:36 ayacc.tar.Z >ayacc = Ada version of yacc. >alex = Ada version of lex. >aflex = Ada version of flex. These files aren't there any more. Aflex and ayacc are available only to those who have completed license agreements. The files listed above are updates for those who have licenses. We hope to make aflex and ayacc available without a license agreement in the near future, but for now the only legal way to obtain aflex and ayacc is as part of the Arcadia 1.0 software distribution. You can obtain a license agreement/tape order form by sending e-mail to arcadia-software@ics.uci.edu, then sign and return the license agreement with a tape distribution fee of $75. As I mentioned above, aflex and ayacc may soon be available by FTP without a license agreement, but details are still being worked out. If you want them right now you need to complete a license agreement. -- Thanks, John ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 91 21:19:50 GMT From: igor!rutabaga!jls@uunet.uu.net (Jim Showalter) Subject: Re: Ada Programming Support Environments (APSEs). Message-ID: >I haven't been paying too much >attention to APSE's in general because I didn't believe anyone was working >much beyond the basic compiler. We offer an integrated development environment for Ada that includes interactive syntactic and semantic assistance within the editor, a high-level object-oriented library management system, a CM system fully-integrated with the compilation and library systems, full symbolic debugger, host/target integration tools ranging from cross-compilers to remote compiler integration, code analysis tools, various programmatic tools for accessing environment information, front-end integration with TeamWORK and Interleaf, interactive hyper-text traceability among requirements, code, PDL, and documents, etc etc etc. Much of this has been available for at least five years. For anyone interested, send me a snail-mail address and I'll send you some literature. -- ***** DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed herein are my own, except in the realm of software engineering, in which case I've borrowed them from incredibly smart people. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 91 21:25:38 GMT From: igor!rutabaga!jls@uunet.uu.net (Jim Showalter) Subject: Re: Free ADA compiler Message-ID: >ADA seems to have a lot in common with PL/1. I program in C and have no >problems. Quantify, please. What is the complexity measure of the programs you work on? Specifically, provide the following: a) SLOC b) Number of developers c) Number of configurations (targets, options, etc) d) Number of subcontractors/sites e) Number of threads of control f) Number of estimated years for project g) Estimated cost h) Number of development environments/languages i) Number of paradigms (e.g. real-time embedded, data base, GUI, etc) j) Documentation/design standards required to adhere to (e.g. 2167A, etc) Only when these sorts of things are taken into account does the statement that you "have no problems" programming in C acquire enough semantic content to be useful. Until then, you could be hacking out 2k programs on a PC, in which case C might actually be up to the job. P.S. Does "no problems" include no problems with pointers walking off into hyperspace, functions returning the wrong type of result, functions getting called with the wrong type/number of arguments, inability to read the code two weeks later, or any of a number of other problems commonly encountered by C folks? -- ***** DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed herein are my own, except in the realm of software engineering, in which case I've borrowed them from incredibly smart people. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Apr 91 01:36:53 GMT From: usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!uc!shamash!timbuk!sequoia!gbt@apple.com (Greg Titus) Subject: Re: is C good enough (was: Free ADA compiler) Message-ID: <185339.3653@timbuk.cray.com> In article jls@rutabaga.Rational.COM (Jim Showalter) writes: >>ADA seems to have a lot in common with PL/1. I program in C and have no >>problems. > >Quantify, please. What is the complexity measure of the programs you >work on? Specifically, provide the following: > >a) SLOC >b) Number of developers >c) Number of configurations (targets, options, etc) >d) Number of subcontractors/sites >e) Number of threads of control >f) Number of estimated years for project >g) Estimated cost >h) Number of development environments/languages >i) Number of paradigms (e.g. real-time embedded, data base, GUI, etc) >j) Documentation/design standards required to adhere to (e.g. 2167A, etc) > >Only when these sorts of things are taken into account does the statement >that you "have no problems" programming in C acquire enough semantic >content to be useful. > >Until then, you could be hacking out 2k programs on a PC, in which case >C might actually be up to the job. > >P.S. Does "no problems" include no problems with pointers walking off > into hyperspace, functions returning the wrong type of result, > functions getting called with the wrong type/number of arguments, > inability to read the code two weeks later, or any of a number of > other problems commonly encountered by C folks? I am not the original author of the "I have no problems" post, but ... I have extensive experience with C (>500k LOC lifetime, two projects >100k LOC each) and a fair amount with Ada (>50k LOC lifetime, ~30k as part of a very large compiler). (Let LOC mean text lines including comments and white space; divide by ~2 to get ~40-character lines of actual language constructs.) I've worked in teams of from 1 to 10 people, including 10 people divided into two groups widely separated geographically, and on projects with costs up to nearly $10^7. The language really doesn't matter that much (caveats later). If you get a decent spec, produce an overall design and have *somebody else* try to break it, produce interface documents to match the modularity in the design, do module designs and have *somebody else* try to break them, code to the module designs, unit test, integrate, have *somebody else* break it (of course they'll be able to at this point), fix it, and deliver it, it'll work fine. Do the above, and you can even write large working systems in assembly code. Leave out enough of the above, and no language can save your project. Owning the best hammer in the world won't help you if the blueprints for your house are wrong in the first place. >> P.S. Does "no problems" include no problems with pointers walking off >> into hyperspace, ... A far greater problem is pointers wandering off to the wrong element of the data structure, and neither language prevents your writing code to do this. >> ... functions returning the wrong type of result, >> functions getting called with the wrong type/number of arguments, Ada wins big here. Some C compilers (bless their souls) support function declarations that include the argument types, and have gripers you can switch on to tell you when you use an undeclared function. >> inability to read the code two weeks later, ... To programmers equally comfortable with the languages, I'd say they're about equally easy/hard to read. Nothing beats good comments. Why, you can't even write self-documenting COBOL. ;-) >> ... or any of a number of >> other problems commonly encountered by C folks? Such as ... 1. Lack of a standard that all vendors must at least support a subset of. Ada wins. 2. Lots of implementation-dependent oddities, some of which seem to be *designed* to prevent anyone writing portable code. Ada is way ahead here, but it certainly can't touch pure Lisp. (big ;-) ) Ada gives you more help in implementing large systems, but C works just as well if you do large systems the way they're supposed to be done. greg Meta-disclaimer: These opinions have been created and shaped by years of making mistakes, mostly ;-) before I worked for CRI. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Titus (gbt@zia.cray.com) Compiler Group (Ada) Cray Research, Inc. Santa Fe, NM Opinions expressed herein (such as they are) are purely my own. ------------------------------ End of INFO-ADA Digest V91 Issue #77 ************************************