From: SMTP%"scandora@cmt.anl.gov" 13-MAY-1994 11:02:49.34 To: EVERHART CC: Subj: Re: DECForms Request for information X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms From: scandora@cmt.anl.gov (Tony Scandora 708-252-7541) Subject: Re: DECForms Request for information Message-Id: Sender: usenet@mcs.anl.gov Reply-To: scandora@cmt.anl.gov Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Argonne, Illinois Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 17:35:12 GMT Lines: 69 To: Info-VAX@CRVAX.SRI.COM X-Gateway-Source-Info: USENET In response to questions about DECforms: > > 1) Does anybody use it? Yes, but I think its use will decline. DECforms is FIMS, which came from the same committee that gave us COBOL. If you get paid by how many lines of code you write, you'll love it. DECforms is actually a wonderful forms management system for dumb terminals, but writing IFDL is the forms version of writing machine language - you shouldn't have to do it. It's almost cheaper to give everyone a PC and write Visual Basic than to write DECforms for existing dumb terminals. > > 2) Is DEC planning an update for it real soon... V2.0 might come out this summer. It's been in the works for so long that I've learned to do without whatever it might offer. > > 3) When using CDD(For it says it is possible in the DEC Library) does >it act "friendly" with it and get along and not cause wierd problems. There is no product that is "friendly" with CDD, just varying degrees of hostility. The V1.2 IFDL translator fixed some really serious bugs, and V1.3 some more, but it still is a joke. Would you believe CDD gave us EDIT STRING FOR FORMS attributes for fields years ago, and they're still ignored by DECforms? A forms utility's only reason for existence is to present data in readable format and get it back. One would think being able to define a field's picture once in a dictionary instead of having to type it into the IFDL source code every time the field appears on a panel would be a minimum requirement for a dictionary, but the DECforms people apparently don't. The reason CDD is a total failure is not that CDD doesn't work, but that all of the products that should use it misuse it at best, and none of their developers and/or product managers want their products to work with CDD. > > 4) Should I be using the "Form" builder tool that is include or >is it trully better to do it by hand coding? The form builder is for trivial applications that don't use CDD. > > 5) Any comments or complaints and things I should look out for... If you're stuck with dumb terminals on VMS, DECforms is the best forms system you can get if you need its power. If you're a C programmer, you might want to use curses for simpler things. The impending DEC C may or may not come with a version of curses that works. The old curses that comes with VAX C is hated by all. You may also want to use SMG$ for simpler things. Be prepared to write thousands of lines of IFDL. I build beautiful dumb terminal applications with DECforms, and so can you. I generate IFDL with Mike Levine's macro processor. If you have a lot of similar forms, you may want to consider using a macro processor. If you can use PCs and a decent GUI builder, do it. If you need to write for dumb terminals and are prepared to write lots of IFDL, you can do it with DECforms. DECallure is a product that may be able to generate IFDL for you. What I saw of it impressed me, but its price is so high all I could do was laugh. Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 708-252-7541 scandora@cmt.anl.gov or scandora@anlcmt.bitnet